Looking for cheap wood stove (new or used) - Any suggestions?

[mnowaczyk]

Hi:

Looking for an inexpensive wood stove which would be used for auxiliary heat, especially in the case of rare a power outage. Does anyone know if the most inexpensive new wood stove? Or possibly have a used one for sale?

I'm getting ready to finish a basement that has an open chimney (most likely previously used for heater) with a 6 or 7" round opening at least 5 feet high, (with a currently capped rectangular terra cotta at the top of the chimney). I figure something with a 5 or 6" round exhaust will be ideal. I don't think I want to get into an EPA stove, or something that requires outside air intake (although it would probably be easy to get through the basement wall).

It would be great to have something with a ceramic glass viewer, but then again, just running a wood stove with the door open in this rental property would probably be plenty sufficient for "ambiance".

Please let me know if you know of anything I can get for cheap in Wilmington, DE. (I do realize the chimney will need a liner, but I plan on doing that myself to save a few bucks.)

Thanks,
Mike

 

[BrowningBAR]

Hi:

Looking for an inexpensive wood stove which would be used for auxiliary heat, especially in the case of rare a power outage. Does anyone know if the most inexpensive new wood stove? Or possibly have a used one for sale?

I'm getting ready to finish a basement that has an open chimney (most likely previously used for heater) with a 6 or 7" round opening at least 5 feet high, (with a currently capped rectangular terra cotta at the top of the chimney). I figure something with a 5 or 6" round exhaust will be ideal. I don't think I want to get into an EPA stove, or something that requires outside air intake (although it would probably be easy to get through the basement wall).

It would be great to have something with a ceramic glass viewer, but then again, just running a wood stove with the door open in this rental property would probably be plenty sufficient for "ambiance".

Please let me know if you know of anything I can get for cheap in Wilmington, DE. (I do realize the chimney will need a liner, but I plan on doing that myself to save a few bucks.)

Thanks,
Mike

Define cheap. It means something different to everyone.

Search craigslist.

 

[Clarkbar2311]

menards has the cheapie box wood stoves for less than $200 I think.

 

[mnowaczyk]

New? for $200? I'd call that cheap. I've seen some stuff on craiglist for $350, but it seems you can get a new one for $700 or less. I'd like to keep this under $300, knowing that I'll need to spend a couple hundred more on a liner... and this is a rental property, of which I'm just trying to increase sale price. Cheap is key. Every penny I save on a stove or liner is going right into my pocket. I doubt many people look for an EPA stove when shopping for a house or rental. The house either burns wood or it doesn't. Right now, mine doesn't, and I'd like to make it possible. Hmm... I wonder how much it would cost to build a masonry fireplace out of that chimney, or if it is even possible.

 

[begreen]

Beware of trying to save a few pennies. This could be a false economy. If the stove is unsafe or just a bad design this could end up being a lot more expensive, especially if in the hands of renters. Better to get a used stove of good quality and exceed the installation requirements. Or get a good, inexpensive EPA stove and take the energy credit for the stove and the liner. An EPA Drolet, Englander or maybe a Napoleon may work here depending on the size needed.

For further recommendations we would need to know more about the space to be heated, closest combustibles, flue height, and confounding factors like appliances in the basement that might compete with the air supply.

 

[mnowaczyk]

This is a drafty 100 year old house and a 600 Square foot basement. It is not yet finished, so many things can be changed. The main focus is auxiliary heat. I realized this past winter when the power went out for a few hours during our "snowmageddon" that there was no way to heat this house! There's not even a single gas appliance in the house. That presents a huge danger when you think about all the water pipes in the house.

I'm looking to finish the 7-foot high ceiling basement and get some more square footage out of this 1275 Square foot house, potentially increasing square footage up to maybe 1700. I'd also be adding another full bath in the basement (since this house is currently only 1 full and 1 half bath.

I'm planning on moving the forced air heat pump w electric backup and central air to a different location in the basement, far away from the chimney, leaving a nice open area for a fireplace. This area that will be "open" has a window to the right ~38" wide and ~20" high on the right side, maybe 3 feet from the chimney. About 4 feet to the left are the stairs (at ceiling level) getting much farther away at basement floor level. So I'm thinking that the clearances would be fine. Maybe the 7-foot ceiling could be an issue.

I'm starting to think about a few different options:
- Take the old Vermont Castings insert that has only one of two working fans, and install it permanently with a positive connection to the new liner (which I believe might be abel to accomodate a 7" at most whereas the Vermont Castings Insert I have suggests an 8" liner. It's an old one from the 80's.
- Maybe see if I could build in a pre-fab fireplace and connect it to the duct that would have to turn horizontal.

Those two options are starting to seem easier and cheaper than finding a good quality wood stove.

Thoughts?



Oh... Appliances that could compete for air:
- Clothes Dryer
- Heater (for first floor only... second floor has it's own heat pump), which is currently electric heat pump, but should draw most air from returns above. I have had plans to get a gas meter on the power company's gas line that comes into the house, so I could have gas appliances, most importantly a gas heater... because that heat pump just doesn't really cut it in the coldest months and causes $400+ electric bills. So all that being said... I'm pretty sure I'd install a 95% efficiency heater that would have an outside air intake and exhaust (in PVC)... So the heater should not be an issue assuming ducting is tight.

So I say... no issue with appliances competing for air supply.

 

[mellow]

You say its a rental property but then say your trying to increase the sale price, is the house up for sale or just a rental? If it is up for sale depending on how competent the house inspector is he could recommend an older insert to be removed before purchase. Down here on the lower shore the inspectors are starting to wake up to inspecting wood burning appliances to make sure they are up to code.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Are you sure you want a renter building a fire in the basement? I can see all sorts of things going wrong with that from getting smoke through the place to setting the place on fire to accidentally killing themselves or others.

Matt

 

[mnowaczyk]

I just now realized I'd never sent my responses. It's a house we decided not to sell when the sky was falling (Sept-Nov 2008) because we easily found a renter to cover the mortgage. I'd been planning on doing major work on the house (addition, finish the basement, etc) but found a great deal on a larger house when the sky was falling. So we quickly left the house knowing a lot of work needed to be done to make the house marketable. I've done most of that, but am still looking at loosing a lot of what we've got invested in the house if we were to sell it even now. The house is in a great neighborhood, but is only 1275 square feet. We could add another 500 square feet by finishing the basement. We also have heat that doesn't require use of the chimney. It's a flat-roof 2 story house. So I've got maybe 25 feet to drop a liner down the chimney, and easily install a wood stove. That would provide backup heat for this house, which I'd never been worried about prior to this last winter when the power was out for a while. The house had NO HEAT whatsoever until the power was restored. That could have been a major problems from: lost rent, freezing pipes, and water damage. This seems like a very easy solution to avoid all of that. I'm also starting to think that gas might be easier, and meet the needs, and maybe even be safer. Building out a fireplace box seems like a bit of a hassle though. Maybe one of those pre-fab units will be the way to go.

 

[mnowaczyk]

For emergency heat, it doesn't get much cheaper than this does it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-VOGELZANG-B...tu=UCC&otn=20&ps=63&clkid=8933609337343502618
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110448631312&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 

[Slow1]

I'd be a bit leery of running one of those stoves in my home. Even more concerned about having renters burn such a stove. I suppose if you knew them well and they are very careful sorts etc. You likely will need to take responsibility for cleaning the chimney on a very regular basis etc. It is, afterall, your house that is at risk. The lost rent from power failure is nothing compared to having the place burn down.

Sure, it is possible to operate those stoves safely, but there are many other stoves that have designs that inherently make them easier to operate with less risks.

In any case the operator is the key to the safe operation of the stove - in a rental situation I imagine a greater chance of the operator not understanding how to operate the stove safely. Thus I'd go for a solid burn-tube style EPA stove. They are very simple to learn to operate with clean burns and tend to be more forgiving of marginal wood than a cat stove (thus you are less likely to have a filthy chimney if the tenants decide to burn all the time). If it is to be "emergency heat only" then consider providing the fuel - that way you know it is dry.

In a power failure the tenants won't have to sit down there feeding it every 30 minutes either - I suspect that the boxwood that you linked to doesn't hold a fire for very long after all.

 

[mnowaczyk]

A vent free gas fireplace is looking like a better option at every turn. No chimney cleaning. Probably lower insurance cost. No need to make sure there's wood on site. Power & gas bills are in the tenant's name.
I love the ability to burn wood, but I'm not finding many advocates for my wood burning idea. I have to admit, when I was 23 and renting a place with a fireplace, some of my friends ended up burning the carpet when they dropped a log on the slate in front of the fireplace and it rolled right onto the carpet. Nice landlord only charged me $200 for the carpet repair... must have been cheap carpet.

Read this post about Vogelzang... and I see they are total junk: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11291/#132716 and saw that Englander may be a good way to go, but when you see that your can't get one for under $1100, I'm not sure the extra $800 will provide me any additional return when I go to sell the house. With either option, the house has a simple wood burning device in the basement, nothing special. (See cheapest HD Englander price: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 )

 

[firefighterjake]

A vent free gas fireplace is looking like a better option at every turn. No chimney cleaning. Probably lower insurance cost. No need to make sure there's wood on site. Power & gas bills are in the tenant's name.
I love the ability to burn wood, but I'm not finding many advocates for my wood burning idea. I have to admit, when I was 23 and renting a place with a fireplace, some of my friends ended up burning the carpet when they dropped a log on the slate in front of the fireplace and it rolled right onto the carpet. Nice landlord only charged me $200 for the carpet repair... must have been cheap carpet.

Read this post about Vogelzang... and I see they are total junk: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11291/#132716 and saw that Englander may be a good way to go, but when you see that your can't get one for under $1100, I'm not sure the extra $800 will provide me any additional return when I go to sell the house. With either option, the house has a simple wood burning device in the basement, nothing special. (See cheapest HD Englander price: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 )

I'm not a big fan of vent-free gas fireplaces . . . in fact here in Maine businesses and daycares are not allowed to have vent free gas fireplaces . . . direct vent, power vent, conventional vents are OK. The thinking is that while they should in theory burn pretty cleanly if there is any problem the only place for any potential CO to vent with a vent-free fireplace is inside the home . . .

So what's the difference between a vent free fireplace and a vent-free propane stove one could argue . . . the thinking is that most folks don't tend to run a stove 24-7. You figure the most one might run a stove would be 6-8 hours for holiday meals . . .

Now if a vent free gas fireplace were to be used only occasionally . . . maybe . . . but in my opinion, for a little extra money and not much work (gas vents really don't need to be cleaned a whole lot compared to solid-fuel venting systems) I would go with a vented gas fireplace if this was the route you were thinking vs. a woodstove. I would err on the side of safety myself . . . since even a gas fireplace intended for the occasional use could be pressed into being used more often if fuel oil prices spike or in a prolonged power outage.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Maybe I'll just put an old gas kitchen stove down there. That will be easier. I won't have to worry about the ODS sensor on the ventlass gas fireplace going bad.
I've installed a ventless gas fireplace in another old house I renovated. It's pretty much awesome. The heater house heater had broken, and the tenants didn't even bother to tell me, and they were using the vent free fireplace for heat. I keep a CO detector right above the vent-free fireplace, and it (and I believe all new vent free fireplaces) include an ODS (oxygen depletion sensor) that will automatically shut down the source fuel if the oxygen levels get to an unsafe level. So it's pretty simple to have two safety measures along with common sense. Add the 99.9% efficiency of vent free fireplaces, and it's just being "green" isn't it? I understand that there are circumstances where local codes are not updated to match newer technology (like ODS), and you also don't want people using these as any kind of primary heat source... then add the possibility of knuckleheads messing around with them, disabling the ODS or something dangerous. I understand erring on the side of caution. My goals are very simple, and should result in VERY LITTLE usage of either a gas fireplace or a wood stove:

1) Backup heat source in the extremely rare instance of a prolinged power outage. My house, and all three of my rental properties are in the City of Wilmington. Power outages are never very long here. In the five years I've owned the mentioned property, I don't think I've personally experienced a power outage longer than 1-2 hours. I'm not sure how long the power outage was this last winter, but I don't believe it was longer than 3-4 hours. Nevertheless, it instilled enough fear in my tenant to pack up her things and go to a firend's house for several days. Although I'd lived in the house for 3+ years (and over 6 years in other houses that had no heat in the event of a pwer failure), I'd never been concerned with the issue before. Only one of my 3 rental properties currently has heat a heat source that will work during a power failure... the one with the vent free fireplace.

2) Resale value. "Fireplace" is a check-box that house shoppers often have in their home search. I have a relative that's a realtor and around here there are common features that home shoppers look for, and in many cases they will include:
- 3+ bedrooms
- Central Air
- Garage
- Fireplace
So you see, I'm looking to also fulfill that last checkbox. Electric and Gel fireplaces don't seem to qualify in my opinion. I was originally considering the easiest options to get a wood burning appliance in there, which I think is most realistic or valuable. However, I've had some people turn me off from the idea. Maybe I could get the best of both worlds by installing a pre-fab firebox, and then putting a gas log inside it. I doubt it would get the 30,000+ BTUs that a kit would provide having the thermostatically controlled blower fan and all. Maybe I'll call back Master Distributors ( http://www.masterdist.net/ ) and research that option. Maybe I can still get the blower on a wood-burning firebox. I can hook the box up to a stainless liner, and hopefully get a damper that can open and close. So the user would have the option of opening the flue/damper if they don't like the idea of Vent-Free gas. Or... I could skip the gas log altogether, and just call it an open fireplace.

I'll plan on providing an update after I make my decision.