Summit, I just want to make sure we're talking about the same stove before I use your remedy with either him or someone else? or maybe before a judge. It's a Vermont Castings Montpelier Wood Insert...reason I wan to make sure, I didn't see any wheels on it...are they removable? They put a tarp on the hearth stone and slid it all the way inside first....., then you're right, they tried to make the liner align with the top of the stove by rotating it, one way then the other...for about two hours till they apparently said they'd had enough and decided to just cover it up. Then it really isn't an issue that there's only about 1 1/2" of clearance above the stove, it would have already been installed and you wouldn't need your hands to get in there to connect anything...and I don't need to have the mason come back and lower the hearth.....right?....thanks..
Montpelier Wood Stove Insert not drafting well
- Thread starter billme888
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check your manual,
if they didn't leave it behind, here is a copy!
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2008/30004403_Montpelier.pdf
here is page 8, summit is correct
4. Install the venting system: Again, depending on
your application it may be easiest to install the connector
or stainless steel flue liner in the chimney first.
Refer to Figure 6 for the components of the venting
system.
• Carefully remove the fiber baffle by first removing
the front air tube. If necessary, removing the
remaining air tubes will allow easier access.
• Remove the iron flue collar from the stove and
fasten either the adapter pipe or flue liner to it by
drilling three holes using the holes in the iron collar
as a guide.
• Secure the flexible pipe to the pipe adaptor using
the same method.
• Install the connector pipe or liner so that the
height measured from the finished hearth surface
to the center bar of the flue collar is 19” (483
mm). (Fig. 7) This will allow an easy connection
once the stove is rolled into place
if they didn't leave it behind, here is a copy!
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2008/30004403_Montpelier.pdf
here is page 8, summit is correct
4. Install the venting system: Again, depending on
your application it may be easiest to install the connector
or stainless steel flue liner in the chimney first.
Refer to Figure 6 for the components of the venting
system.
• Carefully remove the fiber baffle by first removing
the front air tube. If necessary, removing the
remaining air tubes will allow easier access.
• Remove the iron flue collar from the stove and
fasten either the adapter pipe or flue liner to it by
drilling three holes using the holes in the iron collar
as a guide.
• Secure the flexible pipe to the pipe adaptor using
the same method.
• Install the connector pipe or liner so that the
height measured from the finished hearth surface
to the center bar of the flue collar is 19” (483
mm). (Fig. 7) This will allow an easy connection
once the stove is rolled into place
But how can a contractor 'certified' by the stove's maker to install its stoves not know about this? OK...what's your thinking..should I educate this guy then allow his guys back in here to do it right, even after the hostility and attempt to take it away before...chance that happening again, or hire another contractor, and pay him from the $1,800 I owe the first contractor to finish the job?
Wood Heat Stoves said:email them to me, i will re-size and post
big files are fine, i have T1 service
edit, i am a horrible speller, sorry guys!
Wood Heat, you seem to be quite the helpful fella. Welcome and CHEERS. I can help you with the spelling... Before you post you can use spell check at the bottom of your screen and then click on Save Changes. ;-) Keep up the helpfull work.
N of 60
I asked him before about the NFI cert and he said...he said something along the line as ....All stove manufacturers have their own testing and certification procedures. They hold certification classes for all companies and employees as a prereq for being a certified dealer. So since it is not a NFI certificate, which can only be received in you pay the NFI money and for the test and continue paying thier yearly dues. He said the local company that has an NFI guy........ is not even a certified Vermont Castings dealer. I think you need to a paying too close attention to an owner manual that uses generic verbage from the Hearth Industry. For instance, if you call tech support for Vermont Castings, they will indeed tell you it is best to get you fire going with the door slightly cracked for maximum draft. And yes, that is the plan. Inspect, adjust, match test. Test Fire. Units are hardly ever replaced, instead they are field serviced under the direction of Tech support untill such a time, they deem it necessary to replace. Nearly all issues can be remedied with field fixes.
So, should I still try to use this guy or hire another guy to fix his faulty install job?
So, should I still try to use this guy or hire another guy to fix his faulty install job?
north of 60 said:Wood Heat Stoves said:email them to me, i will re-size and post
big files are fine, i have T1 service
edit, i am a horrible speller, sorry guys!
Wood Heat, you seem to be quite the helpful fella. Welcome and CHEERS. I can help you with the spelling... Before you post you can use spell check at the bottom of your screen and then click on Save Changes. ;-) Keep up the helpfull work.
N of 60
thanks! North of 60,
i now see the Spell checker.... i am a stove tech, not computer guy but i'm learning quick
Hows the Yukon? i spent 8 summers bush camping se Yukon with my pops.
our Favorite spot on Earth is Tagish Lake....
billme888 said:
a little late on this post, sorry... yes i know which one you have, we are a VC dealer, and i have put these in before... while the montpelier is not my favorite insert in terms of its internal construction and noisy blower, installing is easy.. the wheels are in the back corners, small (about 1.5" round), and made of steel. they allow you to tip the front of the stove and roll it into the fp (kinda like a dolly!)
Summit...thanks..would there be a reason my contractor, who's certified by VC wouldn't have known how to do this? Is that possible...? can it ever be installed like the way he tried? This guy has been a work of art, just want to cover all my bases before I accuse him of incompetence and/or negligence...I'd like to be on solid ground with my assertions...thanks..
Did you pull a permit for this installation? Have the local inspector come by and take a look, I bet it won't pass and he would probably contact the installers and give them a good scolding and also make sure it's done right.
Wood Heat Stoves said:north of 60 said:Wood Heat Stoves said:email them to me, i will re-size and post
big files are fine, i have T1 service
edit, i am a horrible speller, sorry guys!
Wood Heat, you seem to be quite the helpful fella. Welcome and CHEERS. I can help you with the spelling... Before you post you can use spell check at the bottom of your screen and then click on Save Changes. ;-) Keep up the helpfull work.
N of 60
thanks! North of 60,
i now see the Spell checker.... i am a stove tech, not computer guy but i'm learning quick
Hows the Yukon? i spent 8 summers bush camping se Yukon with my pops.
our Favorite spot on Earth is Tagish Lake....
All is good, and living the fishing dream.
Now back to the original poster.........
when you have work done at your home like installing a new stove a local county building permit is required in most places, surely in my installation areas!!
if a stove insert is just going into an existing fireplace, is that the kind of thing requiring a a permit?...No one ever said anything about needing one...where would you call to fine out?
Call your county or city clerk about permits, it should be a requirement and the installers should of let you know about this. Also, almost all home owners insurance companies require an inspector to sign off the installation or they may not pay up if you have a house fire.
will do first thing Mon morning...thanks guys.. I'll keep you informed as to what happens in this saga...lol...
Yes! As a general or specialty contractor registered with the Washington State Department of Labor & Industries it is his responsibility to either obtain or notifiy you that a permit is required. Your county Department of Community Development will get you squared away with permits.
Caveat emptor. Responsibility and reality are two separate matters. I know that the installers that did our Jotul install during the remodel, saw the permit process as a hassle. They represented a large seller of stoves in the region. Not saying it's right, and fortunately due to the remodel we had the permit process already going. But that is what we saw from our first experience with a "pro, certified" stove install. What we saw were installers just doing a day job handed down by the sales dept. and neither of them wanted the hassle or expense of the permit process added to their competitive bid on the stove + installation.
thanks beulahv...I'll contact them Mon... I just took a couple pics and sent them to Dave to see if he'd resize & post them for me. First shows the gap between the connections more clearly, second one shows what's come out of that opening and is laying on the floor next to the stove....
By the way, here's what the contractor emailed me after the second time his guys were here...when I said no way you guys are taking this stove out of my house....here's what I'm dealing with...
"Just wanted you to know, that the police are underway and should be there shorlty. According to the commercial code, (his company's name was written here..) is within it's right to remove unpaid for merchandise if deemed necessary. We have tried on numerous occasions to ask for your cooperation in handling a very minor issue with a wood insert. You are unwilling and completly unreasonable. We are therefore exercising our right by policy, to remove your unpaid for merchandise, and refund any remaining balance leftover accordingly".
By the way, here's what the contractor emailed me after the second time his guys were here...when I said no way you guys are taking this stove out of my house....here's what I'm dealing with...
"Just wanted you to know, that the police are underway and should be there shorlty. According to the commercial code, (his company's name was written here..) is within it's right to remove unpaid for merchandise if deemed necessary. We have tried on numerous occasions to ask for your cooperation in handling a very minor issue with a wood insert. You are unwilling and completly unreasonable. We are therefore exercising our right by policy, to remove your unpaid for merchandise, and refund any remaining balance leftover accordingly".
billme888 said:
just because they sell vc does not mean they are fully versed... you don't really have to be factory trained to sell and install those things... VC's are much like napoleons and englanders... they let anyone who can buy a truckfull of stoves sell them, so your installers' knowledge about them may be fairly general. to your second point, yes, most inserts do not have that pull off outlet, so you have to wriggle and swear your way thru it while squeezing your hands into the top of the fp opening.
Summit, Clarification please?...Can this particular stove be installed the way he tried? (while inside the fireplace)...?
When I had my stove insert installed, the installers also believed the permit was a hassle.
Lucky for our town, our inspector is really out for the best interests of the homeowners. He forced the installer to be on site when he inspected it, made him pull the surround off, explain what he did, examined it really closely, commented on a few things and signed off on it.
From what I saw of the pictures, there is no way he would have let what happened with your insert slide, and would have forced them to do it right or not passed the inspection, at which point the installers have no right to be paid until it is installed satisfactorily or they have provided a full refund and returned everything to it's original condtion (from the inspector - he's seen it happen many times by hack installers.)
Good luck - remember, your local inspector and permitting process are your friend here.
Lucky for our town, our inspector is really out for the best interests of the homeowners. He forced the installer to be on site when he inspected it, made him pull the surround off, explain what he did, examined it really closely, commented on a few things and signed off on it.
From what I saw of the pictures, there is no way he would have let what happened with your insert slide, and would have forced them to do it right or not passed the inspection, at which point the installers have no right to be paid until it is installed satisfactorily or they have provided a full refund and returned everything to it's original condtion (from the inspector - he's seen it happen many times by hack installers.)
Good luck - remember, your local inspector and permitting process are your friend here.
bill,
i am at home with different inbox, which put your pics into my junk box....
when i clicked not junk, and moved it to inbox, the pics are gone...
try again, or i'll do monday from work
dave
i am at home with different inbox, which put your pics into my junk box....
when i clicked not junk, and moved it to inbox, the pics are gone...
try again, or i'll do monday from work
dave
Dave, my son's here visiting so he's helping me do this...so I'm good to go...until he leaves anyway...Wood Heat Stoves said:
Here is a close-up of the opening, click to expand, and once again to see it at full size.
Second one shows all the ash that's come through that opening and now on the brick floor to the right of the stove.
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