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My Englander 30 new installation: Need some help

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Redleg, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    Hopefully someone can help me with this. I just got my Englander last week and burned it off outside last night. We brought it in the house this morning and it was smoldering just a bit. The problem is every time we open the doors smoke pours out the door. It is making it exceedingly difficult to load with wood, when the smoke pours out the door. The directions that came with the stove are not the greatest and we are used to our old Mama Bear that was pretty simple, so I am probably doing something wrong. I appreciate any help that you can proivide. Needless to say my wife is pretty annoyed right now too.,

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  2. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    okay I have an update already. I got it to stop smoking once it warmed up to about 500 but my concern is that we are going to have a smoky house each morning when i get up to put wood on the fire.
  3. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Redleg. Sounds like poor draft. Describe the flue setup in detail starting at the stove and all the way to the chimney cap. Include lengths, type of chimney, pipe diameter, elbows tees, etc..
    PapaDave likes this.
  4. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    It is a straight pipe going up to the ceiling. About 55" of single wall 6" pipe going up to a cathedral ceiling on a single story room. After that there is about 7 inches of double wall going up to the ceiling. Then it goes outside as double wall and it goes an additional 9 feet outside of the house. It goes that high because several feet away the house is two stories so they had to go higher to compensate for the roof nearby. There is a damper on the pipe about 3 inches above the stove but we haven't closed it yet. I have attached a couple of photos. Thanks for the help. I hope it isn't anything major, because I don't have the money to do a lot after buying the new stove.

    Attached Files:

  5. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Welcome to the forum. I see you're in Watertown. You'll get plenty of opportunity to put your nice new stove to good use.:) Could your nearby two story roof be causing swirling wind/downdraft? Depending on prevailing winds (Which I know can be really impressive from the west there) and your roof construction, you may need even longer pipe.

    I'm rather surprised if you burned inital fires outside last night to cure the paint, that you still had smoke coming off coals this morning. Wasn't the stove sort of hot to move inside? Usually, on a reload you'll have your fire burned down to minimal coals and very little smoke should be in the firebox. Did the fire just smoulder all night? See what happens on your first reload from a nice, hot fire inside. With a good warm pipe and established draft from the fire, you may be just fine on relaod.

    Addendum: What was the explanation for a damper in the pipe with that short an installation? Can't imagine needing one.
  6. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    I agree that it sounds like you are on the short end for chimney length. This couples with a learning curve for a new stove can make things troublesome. Even more so if the fuel source isn't as dry and it may need to be.

    A few things to keep in mind are once you load the stove, if you have done it properly then there should be no need to open the door again until there are only small hot coals left for the next load to ignite on. With the baffle in these stoves, a marginal draft will cause smoke to leak out with the door open.

    Also, how seasoned is your firewood? If there are any questions about your wood having too high an internal moisture content, see if you can find some eco-bricks or similar (man made wood stove fuel) at a store like Tractor Supply Company to try.

    On a side note, make sure you go through your englander manual well to make sure your setup meets all of the clearance to combustibles for walls and flooring. I can't tell from your picture if that brick wall around the stove has an air space behind it or not, but if not, you may have some issues. Also, does the brick work continue under the stove as the hearth pad? If so, again refer to the manual and make sure what you have meets the specified requirements.

    Welcome to the site and I look forward to seeing how you make out as you learn your new stove! I run an englander 30 and just love the thing.

    pen
  7. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    Thanks for all of the advice. I think a portion of the problem is that we are new to this type of stove. Since it warmed up we haven't had a problem. I think it is because we let it smolder out last night and we didn't get it burning as hot as I thought last night. Our wood is well seasoned from last Summer. We have some newer stuff that I am certain will be a problem when we start using it. We ended up burning more this year, mainly because that Mama Bear goes through wood like a forest fire. I also think a part of it is because I am used to loading it as often as I did with the old Fisher. When we only had coals, we immediately threw another piece of wood on it. I guess I didn't give a thought to the fact that we can let this one burn down to coals before having to throw on another piece. I really don't want to go much higher with the chimney because it is hard enough to disassemble to clean now. I am guessing that I will have to clean it less frequently now. I am thinking about removing the damper once the stove is cool enough to do it. To be honest I had a devil of a time getting the pipe to go into the stove. It may be a six inch pipe, but it was a really tight fit.
  8. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    You are right, this stove does best in cycles with at least a few pieces of wood (3 or 4) at a time.

    I had a fisher in the house before this stove as well. It took me a bit to figure out how this new stove likes to be run, but now that I've put 4 years on it, I can't believe how much work it has saved me over the fisher. The fisher was a great stove, but I wouldn't want it back in the house now that I've run this.

    I hope you'll be able to say the same.

    pen
  9. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but the wood may be part of the problem.
    By last summer, do you mean the summer of 2012? That wood likely isn't dry if that's when it was c/s/s.
    What kind of wood? When was it split and stacked. These new EPA stoves really need dry wood, not "seasoned" wood.
    Also, the 30 needs an R-value of 1.5 on the hearth
    Can't forget.....Welcome to the Hearth.
  10. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    I've also got a 30 NC, and I know what you're talking about. I also know there's nothing wrong with my draft, because I measure it frequently with a good quality draft meter.

    Yet I can get smoke into the room when I open the door. Doesn't matter how dry the wood is. ESW knows this is a problem, and recommends that you leave the door cracked open for a minute, before opening it fully. That only helps a little.

    I make it a habit never to open the door if there are flames visible. If you wait till the fire is ending, and all the flames have died down, you can open the door with no smoke. There's really no reason to open it any sooner anyway, unless there's a problem with the fire.
  11. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    it actually hasnt smoked now since i first lit it. I have opened it while there were flames and after letting it cool down to just coals with the thermometer reading only about 300 degrees. It also went a lot longer without me having to reload it.
  12. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    It took me a few years to get used to that! I went from burning 5.5 to 6 cord per winter down to 4 to 4.5 cord and the house stays at warmer temps on average.

    pen
  13. billb3

    billb3 Minister of Fire

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    Screen on the chimney cap is kinda dark. Hard to see if it's partially blocked in that pic.
    With that short a chimney you're not gonna want any restriction there at all.
  14. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    There is no screen. The angle gives it that appearance. I do need to clean it though. It is a royal pain in the butt to get to.
  15. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    It is tricky with the EPA non-cats with the flue gases exiting right in front of the door and then you add the air wash air coming down to meet it. I haven't found any magic trick to keep it from happening with smoke in the firebox. Worst is if you have just put in a new load and have to open it for some reason. <>
  16. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    Yeah. At times like that, I'm glad it's in my basement.
  17. tfdchief

    tfdchief Minister of Fire

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    Off the topic, but I love the barn in the background. Sounds like you are getting it figured out. The new stoves are a little different to operate.
  18. katwillny

    katwillny Guest

    I have the same stove on a different setup. I too get smoke when I open door to reload, I have learned to reload when its down to coals but even then I get some smoke. I am going to extend the stack by 3 feet this summer and see how that work.
  19. leeave96

    leeave96 Minister of Fire

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    What seems to work for us when the draft seems to be lacking due to warmer weather or just a lot of smoke on a reload - is to crack the door slightly so more air can get into the stove and get things moving up the chimney, then open the door for reload. Usually works.
  20. mtcates

    mtcates Member

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    I have been heating with my 30 for 3 winters now and I have never had smoke in my house. My chimney is 21 feet of stainless liner straight up with no elbows, no pipe dampers and its insulated from 8 inches above the stove to the top. My suggestion for you would be to remove the pipe damper even if you don't use it as it is still a small restriction when open. I would also use double walled pipe from the stove up. The extra heat in the pipe will draft much better.
  21. Redleg

    Redleg New Member

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    Okay, it has been a few days now and I am loving this stove. The smoke was only an issue the first day and once in a while when loading it if it is still burning a little bit but I have to get her ready for bed. Even then it is barely anything now. I guess it was just that second lighting after it was lit outside. It heats the house a little better than the Momma Bear did, but it burns less wood. I also have to admit that we enjoy watching the fire through the glass vs having to open the door to see what's going on inside. My daughters like to watch when the flames are above the wood near the top of the stove. They say it looks like a volcano. So far I am definitely happy with this purchase.
    chvymn99, tfdchief, BobUrban and 3 others like this.

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