My first "Oh S**t"

[jstellfox]

Burning for the first time overnight with my new Englander NC30 was quite an experience and I learned something very important. I mistakenly tried to load it up for the night like I have done many times with the old non EPA woodstove at camp. I packed seven splits on a very hot bed of coals, let it get back up to temperature for a few minutes and then closed the draft all the way (at 500 degress) to bank it for the night. Bad idea....too much wood! Once my secondaries kicked in the stove temp began rising as you would expect, but with so much wood the stove just would not settle in even with the draft closed all the way....hits 550(I'm hoping its peaking)......hits 600(I am beginning to get mildly concerned as the fire rages with draft closed all the way and doesn't seem to be slowing down)....hits 650(now I am beginning to poop a brick as it seems to just be getting angrier).....At this point I began asking the divine for assistance to calm this stove down and I am not a very religious person. The only thing I could think of was to dive behind the stove and plug up the hole that is designed to hook an outside air kit to. Luckily that was enough to stop the monster from going any hotter heading south from a high of about 675. It was a very stressful hour....finally around 1:30 am I was able to drag myself (poop stenched pants and all) to bed. Lesson learned...bank for the night with 3 or 4 splits, not seven!

Anyone else have that happen to them and is there something else I could have done to help for the future?

 

[SteveKG]

I am not familiar with your stove or its operation. However, I've had a couple stove fires over the yr. that made me nervous and I ultimately opened the door and sprayed the fire with water from a spray bottle. It did the job pretty quickly. But I don't blame you for being out-of-sorts. It is frightening and, of course, lead to a very dangerous situation in some stoves.

It took a number of sprays of water to get the fire cut down, but it only took a short time. And this was with a top-loading stove, which made it worse as the flames were coming out the top after I opened it.....

 

[Dix]

Been there, done that.


Don't reload your stove when it's more than 400F, let the temp come down, then reload.

 

[BrotherBart]

If it happens again instead of plugging that round primary air intake, put something over the rectangular opening right behind it. That is the fixed intake for the secondary air. When it happened to me I got a nice tan because my stove is halfway inside the fireplace so getting to that intake was a hot adventure.

 

[Steve M]

As a new user of an EPA non-cat stove myself I have learned that these things can't be shut down like the old smoke dragons. They are designed to burn efficient and part of that is a generous amount of air, even with the draft shut down as far as you can manually do so.

I have found it easier to regulate heat with the amount of wood I use rather than the draft once a good bed of coals is established.

 

[oldspark]

I have a new EPA stove bought in March and only have had small fires in it, several posts this fall (this one included) are FREAKING me out. :gulp:

 

[oldspark]

As a new user of an EPA non-cat stove myself I have learned that these things can't be shut down like the old smoke dragons. They are designed to burn efficient and part of that is a generous amount of air, even with the draft shut down as far as you can manually do so.

I have found it easier to regulate heat with the amount of wood I use rather than the draft once a good bed of coals is established.

If it is blow zero you need a large amount of wood so how do you keep from burning the house down?

 

[begreen]

It's important to time the feeding of the stove so that the evening burn has reduced itself to a moderate bed of coals and the stove top temp has dropped. I usually shoot for about 350-400 stove top before reloading. Then, I like to reload with a few big thick splits (~10").

FWIW, the temperature range you described is what our stove does with every large load. 500-675 is pretty much the normal operating temp range for our stove. A full charge of fuel is a bucketload of btus. If I pooped every time I reloaded it, I'd be in Depends all winter long. That may be coming soon, but I'm not rushing it. :lol:

 

[oldspark]

So far with the small fires I have had, I started to reduce the air back when flue temp gets to 450 or 500 and that has worked well but like I said they are small fires.

 

[Troutchaser]

Welcome to the club. Got there a few times last season in my first year burning. Except I was pushing 750 and 800deg.
Big fuel charge on big coal bed is going to take you to the gates of hell. That's usually when we start talking to God.

 

[jstellfox]

If it happens again instead of plugging that round primary air intake, put something over the rectangular opening right behind it. That is the fixed intake for the secondary air. When it happened to me I got a nice tan because my stove is halfway inside the fireplace so getting to that intake was a hot adventure.

Bart, what self imposed guidelines do you go by to make sure it doesn't happen to you again? I guess what I am asking is, whats the best way to get a full stove banked for the night and getting it to cruise (secondaries going) without the temp continuing to climb over the threshold.....is it just a matter of waiting until the stove temp lowers below 400 or so before reloading? These new EPA stoves have a few more nuances you need to learn than the old smoke dragons....I like it though!

 

[Battenkiller]

I got a nice tan because my stove is halfway inside the fireplace so getting to that intake was a hot adventure.

So now you have one of these?

 

[jstellfox]

Welcome to the club. Got there a few times last season in my first year burning. Except I was pushing 750 and 800deg.
Big fuel charge on big coal bed is going to take you to the gates of hell. That's usually when we start talking to God.

Glad to see I am not alone...I don't particulary care if I go to hell, I just don't wish to take my house or family with me. The first couple of nights with this new stove have scared the crap out of me, but I am learning fast.

 

[oldspark]

Depending on your brand of stove I guess loading the stove e/w would be better for a overnight burn as the air does not move through the wood as well.

 

[Steve M]

Oldspark, don't know about below zero yet. Guess I'll figure that out when I get there LOL.

I have found so far that the advice to let the stove complete the burn cycle and cool to around 400 F. or less is good advice. Each stove is different but with mine, once a good bed of coals are established I can open the draft to load the stove, shut completely down after everything gets burning good and enjoy the light show. The temp the stove peakes at seems to rely on how much wood I put in it and when just as much or more so than the draft control.

As I said, I'm a new user and probably shouldn't be giving advice, just stating my limited experience so far. As a burner of non-EPA stoves for 30 years these stoves definately require some relearning but I believe we can do it.

Got to add that my shoulder season wood is dry Poplar so things may change once I get back into my wood pile to some harder wood.

 

[ckarotka]

Like the OP I've had this happen more than I would like trying to get a full load (wood to the top of the fire brick, maybe a tad higher) set. I too have plugged the intake to snuff it out before any damage could occur. I plugged the hole in my nc13 at around 725, that was high enough to me to sit back an hope, it needed action.

As stated in other threads, I now try larger splits with just one or two small ones on a cooler coal bed. Still learning and hoping this year will fair better because my fuel source is dryer and split a bit bigger. Next years wood is even larger and 2012 might have some that need to be split again to fit.

I can understand you pain jstellfox, we read all the posts about others burning in the same stove with such ease, I'm not too worried, we will get it, because of all the help we get here.

I've read here many a times that year 3 is one of the best because you have all your ducks in a row. This is year two for me and things are falling into place nicely. I've burned my old stove wrong for 2 years prior to finding this site. Last year I found Hearth.com and it's been getting better ever since.

Although after finding this site is has cost me over $1000 cuz I bought a new better bigger stove and installed a second stove much safer than the house came. %-P and now my side yard is full of c/s/s fire wood and the neighbors look out the windows at me and scratch their heads

Charlie

 

[BrotherBart]

Bart, what self imposed guidelines do you go by to make sure it doesn't happen to you again? I guess what I am asking is, whats the best way to get a full stove banked for the night and getting it to cruise (secondaries going) without the temp continuing to climb over the threshold.....is it just a matter of waiting until the stove temp lowers below 400 or so before reloading? These new EPA stoves have a few more nuances you need to learn than the old smoke dragons....I like it though!

I time my night burn so that the stove is between three and four hundred. I do not load on top of a coal bed. I rake the coals to the front of the stove and then load large splits N/S with just the front ends of the bottom ones on the coals. This "cigar" burns the splits instead of them outgassing all at once. But I also have no burning, pun intended, desire to watch a raging secondary burn show. I got over that the first season with the stove. I just want a nice steady burn and stove top temps at five to six hundred and to hit the bed.

With the back of the splits not sitting on coals the splits burn progressively from the front to the back overnight. Be sure that the "zipper" in the middle of the front is aimed at the vacant space between two splits on the bottom or you will end up with gunk on the glass from the air coming out of it hitting the end of a split and bouncing back and overcoming the airwash over the glass.

 

[ckarotka]

BB,

I've been raking the coals forward as well in the 13 but what I've found is loading e/w the split in the back which is normally the biggest never really catches. After the front ones burn off the back split sits and smokes and stove begins to cool. So now I rake 60% or so of the coals to the front and leave some for the back splits. Any other advice for the e/w burners?

 

[jstellfox]

Bart, what self imposed guidelines do you go by to make sure it doesn't happen to you again? I guess what I am asking is, whats the best way to get a full stove banked for the night and getting it to cruise (secondaries going) without the temp continuing to climb over the threshold.....is it just a matter of waiting until the stove temp lowers below 400 or so before reloading? These new EPA stoves have a few more nuances you need to learn than the old smoke dragons....I like it though!

I time my night burn so that the stove is between three and four hundred. I do not load on top of a coal bed. I rake the coals to the front of the stove and then load large splits N/S with just the front ends of the bottom ones on the coals. This "cigar" burns the splits instead of them outgassing all at once. But I also have no burning, pun intended, desire to watch a raging secondary burn show. I got over that the first season with the stove. I just want a nice steady burn and stove top temps at five to six hundred and to hit the bed.

With the back of the splits not sitting on coals the splits burn progressively from the front to the back overnight. Be sure that the "zipper" in the middle of the front is aimed at the vacant space between two splits on the bottom or you will end up with gunk on the glass from the air coming out of it hitting the end of a split and bouncing back and overcoming the airwash over the glass.

Thank you very much sir, that is good advice and exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Great advice.

 

[BrotherBart]

BB,

I've been raking the coals forward as well in the 13 but what I've found is loading e/w the split in the back which is normally the biggest never really catches. After the front ones burn off the back split sits and smokes and stove begins to cool. So now I rake 60% or so of the coals to the front and leave some for the back splits. Any other advice for the e/w burners?

I found in my miserable attempts at burning E/W that the front half of the load had to be sitting on top of coals with a channel dredged through the center of the coal bed from the front to the back.

 

[btuser]

I having the same issue. I guessing its the 3yr dried wood. I'm countering by packing splits tight and not giving them a lot of room to breathe.

 

[gpcollen1]

Not sure what the recommended burning temp and overfire temps are in that stove. In my Olympic, the goal is to get up to the 650-700 range as I close her down. I don't care if it goes a bit over 700.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I agree with letting the stove cool a bit and burn down some coals. We open the draft full just as it becomes all coals or just a tad before.

In addition to raking the coals forward, it really works nicely to have a medium sized round or a large split in the bottom rear. In our case, I usually put 1 or 2 soft maple splits in the front bottom and put the ash in the rear bottom then fill the remaining space with more ash. Sometimes I use cherry or elm for this also.

 

[NH_Wood]

Can someone help me understand this better (from BB) "Be sure that the “zipper” in the middle of the front is aimed at the vacant space between two splits on the bottom or you will end up with gunk on the glass from the air coming out of it hitting the end of a split and bouncing back and overcoming the airwash over the glass." I have this issue with dirty glass from N/S splits. Thanks! Cheers!