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My Options and outdoor furnace

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by 04HemiRam2500, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I have been going through options now for a while as to what type of wood burner I would like.

    I wanted to ask if anybody can give advice about the us stove 1600ef outdoor wood furnace. If anyone has one let me know what you think. Also, how would wood consumption for this furnace compare to an indoor wood furnace like the englander, since this is outside? I would like a gasification boiler but I can not spend more than what this is priced.

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  2. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    My first take is that in anything but really moderate climates, an outdoor hot air furnace is going to lose a lot of efficiency. Personally, I'd rather have an efficient indoor stove (or furnace) which did the job...even partially.

    In terms of MPG, my guess is that a good indoor stove could get twice as much heat from the same pile of wood. That's a big diff.
  3. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    How in the world wold you even hook up this stove to the existing ductwork system? you would have to have it right up against you house. Hot water OWH use underground insulted pex pipes. AS webbie said you will get a lot more heat from your wood into your living space with an indoor stove. Friend of mine has an OWH boiler and he uses at least 2-4 time the wood i do to heat a smaller house than mine.
    Of course his wood is green too, making matters worse.
  4. stee6043

    stee6043 Minister of Fire

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    As others have said I think you'll find an outdoor furnace would burn quite a bit more wood, all things being equal. Pumping hot air through a duct outside the house is going to be a bum deal no matter how you look at it. Some folks make it work, however. Otherwise there wouldn't be a market for these furnaces.

    If it were my money to spend I'd go with the indoor unit. Or perhaps even a conventional stove if that's an option?
  5. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    THese OWH have huge fireboxes. Guy i know burns stumps in his.
  6. arngnick

    arngnick Member

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    If you must have something outside I would go with an outdoor boiler and heat exchanger coil inside. If not get something to put inside and burn good seasoned wood. Good Luck!
  7. shawn6596

    shawn6596 New Member

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    I also looked at this option, but I couldn't find any facts on consumption. I looked at a boiler in and out side. I seem to be a group consensus that as cheap as my natural gas was that I would be better off to sell wood to pay the bill than to heat with it.
  8. Seasoned Oak

    Seasoned Oak Minister of Fire

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    You can make a safe bet that just about any OWB will consume far more than an indoor EPA stove. The firebox alone is many times the average wood stoves. And most of them are NOT EPA reburn stoves where your getting an extra 30-35% more heat out of burning the smoke.
  9. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    Probably true at the current cost of wood and nat gas.

    As we have said since the site was founded (1995), wood burning is as much a lifestyle as it is heating method. Ask most fishermen the actual cost per lb harvested and....if they add it up, it's gonna be massive! I remember a boating mag article that laid it out. In some cases, it was $50K per pound if you used a fancy Sportfisherman (boat).

    But getting away from the everyday world? Priceless. I suppose that's part of the wood burners enjoyment too.
  10. Gasifier

    Gasifier Minister of Fire

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  11. shawn6596

    shawn6596 New Member

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    for me an inside unit wasn't really a viable option. I have a 1600 sqft two story. The best option for inside is in the basement and a flue from the basement out the top of the roof was just too costly. That was why I looked towards boilers, also I could heat the shop and house with the same unit. I heat the shop now with 2-3 cords a year. The house is nat gas, and only cost $1200 a year. Like many here I really like cutting wood. I love the time in the woods. also its great exercise.
  12. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    The problem is that I have a 3000 square foot house and with three oil tanks in the basement I can not put it there even if I do put it on the other side of a wall of the tanks. So with a sandstone basement wall between the oil tanks and where I thought I was going to put the englander. My concern is that if a tank leaks then oil will leak into the other side of the basement and be beneath the furnace which is bad.

    If I can put the furnace on the other side of the wall of the oil tanks let me know but I think this is a bad idea.

    So, I also found out that I can not put it in the garage attached to my house that has my new edition above it. This makes sense because of the gas fumes and other gas powered equipment and the truck in there. Can I build a box out of cement block to put the furnace in the garage or no? I would love to do this but I think that the insurance is still going to see it as being in the garage.

    Therefore, I am left to outside. Earlier in the summer I posted about heating my house with a wood stove on another thread. However, I find this might not work because of my house having alot of curves to it and there is a while for the heat to get to the stairs opening to heat the upstairs. I consider getting the englander 30 stove put to move heat in my house I think will be difficult. However, how much heat do these throw out? I even considered putting the englander in my game room and just let it dump heat with the blower. However, I see me needing fans everywhere in my house to get the heat to move where I want it to. But then again this is new to me and how much heat does this englander stove throw out?

    My goal is to somehow put the englander in my basememnt or garage. But I think that I can not make this happen.

    Therefore, I am stuck to the outside. I think that since I like my house cooler 65 max I think that it being outside might be good. However, if it is outside my neighbor with similar house uses 5 cords max a winter in his century wood furnace. Thus, I do not want to use more than five cords. But I have not heard from anyone yet about this furnace.
  13. Gasifier

    Gasifier Minister of Fire

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    04HemiRam - Why do you have three oil tanks in the basement? And why not make plan to get two of them pumped out and out of your basement? Then put a forced air wood furnace in the basement. I would not rush into this. Do you have seasoned wood all ready to go for this year? You will need it. Tell us a little more about your plan and what you have done already. Maybe the guys on here can give you some good steering advice.
  14. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I have the oil tanks because I want to keep them filled in case something happens to me so I can just turn on the oil. Plus the prices just keep getting higher. Another consideration I had was moving the oil tanks out side. Can I do this what are the restrictions. Also, can I fence them in? My main goal is to use the englander either setup in the basement or preferably the garage.
  15. flyingcow

    flyingcow Minister of Fire

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    I'm with gasifier.

    Also, do you have a history of how much oil the house uses in a yr round season? That would give us a bit of history/numbers to work with.

    Plus, would you be willing to share of how many $$$'s you can spend on upgrading to a new heating system? Just a ballpark. There may be other options than burning cord wood too.

    3 oil tanks? 275 gal tanks?
  16. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I go through about 600 to 650 gallons of oil a year. I have 5 cords of wood sat out to dry and seasoned ready for this winter. I just never expected this many complications with an installation. Then again, it is an old house.

    As far as the amount of money I have for a wood system I have enough for the forced air system so I am looking at 4000 max. I do not have enough for a boiler.
  17. flyingcow

    flyingcow Minister of Fire

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    A gasser-
    Basically figure 1 cord of well seasoned wood equals 150 gals of oil, might be able to push that to 175gals. i've done this.

    probably what you're looking at doing(OWB that is hot air) will be at best 1 cord - 100 gals of oil, maybe less. i really think you're looking at 75 gals at best.

    If you did an inside water boiler unit, you'll need to plumb up an HX to fit in your duct work? That might be easier said than done.

    Also as mentioned before, the Kuhma might work very well for you.

    Just as a note. I had a Mitsu heat pump(air) installed to supplement my heat and also so i can have a little A/C in the summer. It's an 18,000 btu unit. Works very well. Installed approx $4,0000.
  18. maple1

    maple1 Minister of Fire

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    I would definitely (I think) get all the oil tanks out of the basement, and put a new wood burner there. The potential oil spill liabilities alone would give me the jitters. I think the Khuma has a good rep.

    Keep one oil tank outside, and protect it well - maybe put it inside a small shed on a small slab. Or two in a shed if it would make you feel better. I think that would definitely be cheaper than putting any kind of wood burner outside.

    How old are the tanks? Insurance companies are very anal about them up here - my father just got a letter saying he has two weeks to replace his, and it was just replaced 6 years ago.
  19. shawn6596

    shawn6596 New Member

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    Just a note on using a conventional stove. My step brother had problems with hot/cold spots. All you need to do is turn on the fan on your furnace (fan only). This will allow the return air to draw in the heat from the stove and redistribute throughout the house.
  20. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    Here is the post about my house and the layout that I started awhile ago.

    http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/heat-large-house-englander.111295/

    What I am now considering is putting the furnace on the main floor and just putting a big vent on it to blow the hot air. I will place the furnace against the laundry room with the back facing the room and the front with the heating vent facing the big opening that will go into the kitchen then through and around my house and heat will naturally rise upstairs. The issues I see are the noise of the 875 cfm blower and maybe the ugly look of putting a filter box on it. However, I see that 875 cfm blower as reassurance to push that heat across my house. What do you guys think?

    The problem that I have with just using the fan on my furnace is that the cold air return goes through my unheated basement. Therefore, I see this as in effective to help move heat from wood stove cause for my house it will be cold by the time it gets to where I need it. Now, if I had a finished and heated basement or even partially heated this would work.
  21. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    You have natural gas? or did I read that wrong.

    it's so cheap I can't believe you'd look at anything else.

    Oil just sitting around just in case.. especially 3 tanks???? something isn't adding up with your system design. How do you heat your hot water?

    JP
  22. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    No natural gas I am glad dont want the stuff. Water is heated electrically. oil is in the three tanks and stabalizer is added.

    I really like my idea of where to put the englander. Let me know what you guys think!!
  23. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I keep changing my mind. But the more I think about it, the englander needs in the garage connected to ductwork. My oil furnace is in the garage but everywhere I look they tell me not to put a wood furnace in an attached garage. Can I build a cement brick room for it in my garage and seal it off somehow?

    !!!!!!Or better yet an idea that cam to me is what if I install studs near the 3/4 way mark of the garage put a door there and set up drywall insulation the works etc. Then can I put my furnace on the other side of this wall and still keep my garage?
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  24. JP11

    JP11 Minister of Fire

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    To stay legal..

    You cannot have a door that goes from the wood area into the garage area directly.

    I've thought of doing some sort of removable wall to load in wood ( I palletize mine)

    Some folks ignore the code, and just remove gas tools and stored gas and such. Not saying that's legal, but that's what some do.

    As with anything.. it's all fine and dandy till you burn your house down and have to fight the insurance man.

    JP
  25. Gasifier

    Gasifier Minister of Fire

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    In my opinion, do this the right way the first time. Remove the oil tanks from your basement. At least two of them. You will not be using as much oil after your wood furnace is installed. You can use an electric pump to pump them out (are they all full of oil) and move one of the tanks outside. As long as you have some type of anti-gelling agent in the oil or you have a 50/50 mix of kerosene with it, the oil will be fine outside. I have mine on a concrete floor just under my covered porch. Or you can pay someone else to do it pump them out for you. It is not that bad of a task. And if you have to pay someone else to remove the tanks, then so be it.

    Speaking of this idea of yours to partition off a section of your garage. How big is your garage? Do you really want to lose that space to a furnace and wood in there? Keep discussing this. So far it seems to me that a Kuuma in your basement hooked to your existing ductwork is the way to go. Now, if you can not afford a Kuuma, then you can look into another type of forced air Wood Furnace like the Englander or a Yukon. But I would think for the extra money you would have what is probably the most efficient forced air wood furnace out there.

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