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Napoleon 1900 or Pacific Energy Summit

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by skidud, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. skidud

    skidud Member

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    I am strongly considering putting in a Napoleon 1900 in place of my current 1400 for added burn time, more heat output and a longer log length. The problem is the need for an additional 2" of clearance. I then noticed people recommending the Pacific Energy Summit. I have downloaded the manual for the summit and scoured their website but can't find even half the information that Napoleon puts on their site. If anyone knows the firebox size and the rated low fire burn time on the Summit, I'd appreciate it.

    Lastly I realize the difference between convection and radiant heat and how a radiant stove can put out a lot more btu yet be rated for less sq.ft. than a convection. I'm confused then by how the Summit, which I understand to be convection like the Napoleon, can put out more btu, have less sq. ft. and still require less clearance. They both have 3.0 cu.ft. fireboxes so it would seem that the Summit would rely more on radiant to get the higher btu rating. It seems strange that it would have a 5" corner clearance vs. the 8" required on the Napoleon 1900.

    I really don't have the resources to keep buying stoves so I want this next stove to be my last. I want the stove that will heat more of my house while being stuffed in an addition on the backside of my house. Probably the worst place but the only place for my stove to go. I rely heavily on fans to circulate air.

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  2. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Ignore claims of BTU ratings and and heating capacity. They are inconsistent numbers and can not be relied upon for a wide number of reasons. Firebox size is the spec to focus on. Based on the reports from others on this forum, the Summit should provide the longer burn.

    How much of a longer burn is debatable for a variety of reasons.

    The difference between the 1400 and the 1900/Summit is .75 cu ft. You will notice improved burn times and heat production, but there is a chance that the .75 cu ft difference may not be a huge difference. How about you tell us about the shortcomings of the 1400 for your house so we can better understand what you need to improve upon with your next stove.
    PapaDave likes this.
  3. skidud

    skidud Member

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    Basically the big thing is that I can't make it through the day/night without refueling. My house is 2500 sq. ft. in two stories with a dining room addition on the back side of the house where the stove is. I use the stove for supplemental heat but like to rely on it as much as possible. I burn it hot when I'm home which does a pretty good job of keeping the house warm. But during the night I choke it off all the way to make it through the night, which offers little heat or I get up once to restock it and can burn it a little warmer. I know my wood selection has a lot to do with it but in general, I would like a bigger firebox and longer burn times. Another reason is that my father and brother both burn wood and cut their wood to 20". I can't burn anything over 18" so it makes it difficult to cut wood with them and split it up at the end, I usually find that I get the scrap leftovers or wood that's an inch too long.

    I do agree with you that the ratings they put on the stoves can be skewed but I would have to think that a well designed stove would put more heat into the room and not out the chimney than a poor design of the same firebox capacity.
  4. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    If the 1400 is doing a decent job at keeping the house warm, then the 3 cu ft stove would solve some of your issues. If this were my purchase and I was choosing between these two stoves, I would go with the Summit as it will provide the longer burn based on the reports hear. 12 hours of heat have been mentioned here often with the Summit, which will get you through the night and should work within your working schedule.

    The 1900 is not a bad stove and is a fine heater based on the Napoleon owners here, but I think you will have a longer burn cycle with the Summit.

    That is true, but the BTU specs and claimed heating capacity are not honest indicators of that. That is not a knock against any specific stove manufacturer. All manufacturers are inconsistent with these numbers.
  5. skidud

    skidud Member

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    With so many variables, all of which I've faced in my first two years of burning, including draft issues, green wood and just poor stove placement, I can't imagine too many people can say with much certainty that two different stoves of the same material, design and capacity are that much different in terms of heating capacity. I know after my first two months of burning wood, I was ready to quit with the Napoleon, then with an additional 3' of chimney for added draft, I was burning like a mad man, followed by a spell of having wood that was wet, followed by a month of bitter cold where I couldn't keep the house warm enough because the stove was too far away from the living room. Had I switched stoves during any one of those runs of good or bad burning, I would have had a totally different opinion than I do now. It seems that most people who switch stoves also change some other attribute of the stove, which would make it pretty hard to say that stove A was designed better than B. I guess then, if the ratings they put on their stoves can't be trusted, and controlled head to head comparisons don't exist, it's going to be hard to make a bad choice if both choices have owners who think their stove is the cat's meow. I guess really then for me it would come down to log length and price. I'm still looking for the firebox dimensions on the Summit. It sounds like a great stove with a little better price.
  6. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    You can stuff a 20" chunk in the Summit but it is gonna be right up to the door and not an ideal burning configuration. Time after time folks have attested to the fact that 16" to 18" is ideal for it. Just like the 30-NC that has a similar firebox configuration.

    The Summit and the 30 both essentially have a 20" square firebox.
  7. skidud

    skidud Member

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    Thanks, I've been searching all morning trying to find that information. The 20" firebox may be a bit small, the Napoleon has a 22.5" deep box that would allow me to run 20" with ease and 22" as long as I can keep from pushing coals behind the log. It gets old having dear old dad cut me a load of wood trying to help and finding that I have to recut half of it. He can't seem to adjust to cutting wood at 16" when he's used to cutting it at 24" for his old smoke dragon. It seems the lengths keep creeping up the longer he cuts. I try not to look a gift horse in the mouth but it certainly gets annoying taking 2"-3" off the end of a log. I certainly do like everything I've read on the Summit in searching for the firebox dimensions. It sounds like a great stove. I'll have to do some more thinking before I pull the trigger on either.
  8. weatherguy

    weatherguy Minister of Fire

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    Ive seen both stoves in action, my friend has the summit and I think is the better stove by far, Its a beast, he heats 2500 sf with it no problem, I was really impressed with its burn technology and the heat output.
  9. skidud

    skidud Member

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    What did you not like about the Napoleon 1900? I've seen much more praise for the Summit than the Napoleon but I've seen little complaints about either. The only problem I've seen on the 1900 is one I had on my 1400 with the ash door not closing fully and causing overheating.
  10. weatherguy

    weatherguy Minister of Fire

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    They're both good stoves but the heat output of the Summit impressed me more, I was at his house on a cold winter day and he cranked that thing up and it really put out the heat, plus it has that burn system (forget the name) which seems to work well. For the money the Nap is a good stove too.
  11. skidud

    skidud Member

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    I just got off the phone with a stove shop in my area and lucky for me they recently picked up the PE line and have the Summit and Napoleon 1900 in stock. I'll be interested to hear their thoughts as well.
  12. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Take some splits with you to the stove shop.
  13. dougstove

    dougstove Member

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    4 years ago I switched from a Napoleon (roughly the 1400, not sure the model) to a base model Pacific Energy Super 27 (the smaller sister of the Summit).
    The PE Super 27 is vastly better. The Napoleon ash door did not close properly, the combustion air flow was inferior, and it was either roaring or smouldering, nothing in between.
    The PE Super 27 starts more easily, gives more control and gives me (short) over night burns of ~7-8 h. It relights from coals even after 8-9 h.

    My wood consumption dropped by about 30% and my family comfort is much better.
    My house is a 1900 sq. ft. long ranch style, reasonably insulated, and the PE Super 27 is my primary heat in a colder climate than Ohio.
    cheers, Doug
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Both are good stoves with similar convective cabinet jackets. The Summit's firebox is 20w x 18d to the boost manifold and 20"d to about 1/2" before the glass. It'll take 22" splits on a diagonal. The Summit has a bit more robust baffle system and is easier to clean. You just pull the pin and remove the entire baffle/secondary box. That said, I have not heard any bad things about the 1900. Most folks love them and they certainly can heat.
  15. FyreBug

    FyreBug Minister of Fire

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    If it's long burn time a logs why not look at the Osburn 2300?

    3/8" top plate steel, takes 20" logs North/South, by-pass damper built-in so you can get your draft established. Smooth cam & roller door mechanism.Comes standard with a blower and ash-pan.

    Lifetime warranty on glass even if you put your foot through it. Lifetime on burn tubes as well. Comes standard with a blower and ash-pan.

    And it only retails for $1,869 kitted black.

    Note: I sell Osburns.

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  16. skidud

    skidud Member

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    That's not a bad option either. I'm not sure which way I'm going yet. I'm really open to any option with a 3.0+ box that will take a 20" log.
  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Have you looked at the Enerzone Solution 3.4?
  18. skidud

    skidud Member

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    I have now. . . . . . .but can't find a price.
  19. Swedishchef

    Swedishchef Minister of Fire

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    I for one can say that the Osburn 2300 is a great heater. I have fed 7 cords of wood through mine (2 winters old) and have not had any issues. The bypass damper is a great option to get the draft going well. It eliminates smoke spillage (my chimney is outside therefore my draft is not the strongest) The glass door is one of the biggest in the industry. I can load it full of wood at 10 PM and have coals left at 7 AM. It easily heats my entire basement (1275 square feet) and the heat will also rise via the staircase and keep the upstairs cozy as well in the coldest of Quebec winter days.

    That Enerzone is a beast! Both the SUmmit and the 1900 are great heaters. I had been looking at a 1900 and decided to go with the 2300 instead...just for the sake of the bypass damper.

    A
    FyreBug likes this.
  20. FyreBug

    FyreBug Minister of Fire

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    About $2,100. Includes blower, ashpan and heat exchanger. 3.4 cu ft.
  21. skidud

    skidud Member

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    That is a heck of a price for that big of a stove. I think I'll be doing some more research on that one. One deal breaker is if it requires too much clearance around it.
  22. FyreBug

    FyreBug Minister of Fire

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  23. ScotO

    ScotO Guest

    We have the 1900p. We're heating 2750 square feet, and doing it with that stove alone. Although it REALLY puts out the heat, for the first several years it seemed to REALLY eat the fuel......just didn't seem like I could get it to be a 'lazy' fire. That's until I found this site, and I read a post about another member (with an entirely different stove) modifying his draft on his stove. So I got to thinking about doing the same thing with my stove. Now there are several variables into everyone's situation (different flues, different temperature and geography, different house layout, etc) so draft for one person may be totally different for another. Anyway, we have a very strong draw on our chimney the way our house is situated off of a large field in a valley between two mountains. I needed to try and cut back the draft. I looked underneath the stove, and low-and-behold, the draft rod was improperly seated in the draft tube channel (from either the factory or the dealer, not sure who would have installed it). The self-tapping screws weren't tight at all, leaving a large gap between the sliding draft door and the window. I tightened up that screw last winter, and MAN what a difference! I now have total control on that stove, and we absolutely love it! I'm anxious to see how much savings it gives me in the wood department this winter (hoping for a hard winter, we had a really mild winter last year). I'm betting at least a cord or more (maybe two) in savings. Anyway, I can pack that baby full of big wood, and it'll last the entire night (11:00pm til 6:00am) easily. Now the only stove I would replace my Napoleon with would be a Blaze King King, if they could just get that stove to look better I'd be pulling the trigger on one. Those CAT stoves are amazing heaters, and can hold a fire for a long long time......
  24. skidud

    skidud Member

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    The only stove problem I ever had with my 1400 was getting some coals caught in the ash door and having a runaway fire. It wasn't the stoves fault but rather inexperience on my part. I wasn't aware of how critical it is to keep an airtight stove just that if you plan to stock the thing full with good seasoned wood. The stove top hit 1000 degree before I realized what was wrong and was able to work the door shut. I have since purchased some Chimfex sticks and keep some green wood close in case it would ever happen again. From the moment I realized that I wasn't in control until the temp finally started to drop, I was sweating it both literally and figuratively. I haven't had a lick of trouble since and have been very happy with it other than the size. That is the reason I was initially looking into going with a 1900.

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