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  1. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I am coming from a modern non-cat to the BK and I did not get the big smoke show with the non-cat during reloads and startup. Nor do I get the smoke show with a campfire in a pit. I propose that the huge excess of air being fed to the firebox in a non-cat feeds the fire more air for a cleaner burn but also dilutes the smoke into a lower concentration, higher temperature output.

    During the burn, the non-cats are dumping huge amounts of air into the fire and above the fire which continues to dilute the smoke and more importantly the inefficiency of the non-cat technology lead to much much (like double) higher flue temps so the smoke goes up and away to be better mixed with atmospheric air. Compare this to a cat stove with cold flue temps, small flow rate in the flue leads to a very high concentration and cold smoke that lingers near the chimney cap and is much more likely to sink to ground level for smell.

    Emissions are measured in grams per hour right? Well, slow down and cool down the smoke from a non-cat and it may look like what we are seeing from a cat. Same grams per hour but diluted.

    In school, they taught us that "dilution is the solution to the pollution". Well yes, the local effects are reduced with dilution but the actual pollutant load is unchanged.

    That's my current theory. 24 hour burns for nellraq means he is doing something right.

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  2. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    Mine smokes no longer than my Lopi used to on a cold start or reload. I never ran my Lopi with full air and I'll never run my BK with full air for more than a few minutes. I've never had to run my BK over "2" no matter how cold it gets here. During the winter it's usually on the "n" on normal which means no flames in the stove after 20-30 minutes of use. Once the flame in the stove gets "wispy" the smoke is gone, I'm usually at this point in 20 minutes after a reload.

    If you're having to run a BK stove so it has flames in the box to heat your house I think you need a larger stove.
  3. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    Loc:
    Coldstream, BC, Canada
    +1 to you Highbeam. Your explanation makes sense to me. My non-cat Oslo upstairs operates the same as all other non cat EPA stoves. Definitely some smoke on startup - but nothing at all like the smoke from the Chinook. A short time into the burn all I get is heat waves out of the chimney - and it stays like that for 8+ hours..

    BTW, it`s exactly the same wood used in both stoves. 21 inch for the Oslo, and 18 for the Chinook. Like I said before, this wood has been CSS for just shy of 3 years. It is stacked on pallets ùp on the hill - where it has been getting full sun and lots of wind for just shy of 3 years. All wood is covered with plywood to shed the rain and snow. I know that unseasoned wood is a big problem for a lot of people - especially newbies - BUT IT IS NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!!

    The pics I posted were not taken a couple of minutes into the burn. First one was probably after 10 min - the last one after about 45 min.
  4. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Lately I've changed this procedure and eliminated #4. After I engae the cat I turn it down to 2.5, burn for about 15 minutes then turn it down to desired setting which is usually 1.5 or a hair above. I haven't had any stalls doing it this way so I feel the quicker I can get to my desired setting the better.
  5. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    What kind of stack temps are you seeing at different settings? I have double wall pipe but when I'm cruising along at 1.5 my internal stack temps are 350-400, when I burn at 2 the temps shoot up to 500-600. Your single wall exterior temps should be about roughly half of my internals. Maybe you can find a certain flue temp where it goes from smokey to smokless?
  6. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    Ì have attached a spreadsheet of yesterdays burn details. My stack temps are certainly much higher than half of yours.

    BTW, my new load this am was 2 large, dry chunks of fir and one smallish fir round--probably 2/3 of a load. Followed regular start up procedure and there was negligible smoke. Go Figure!!
    Maybe to reduce startup smoke we should fully load the firebox in stages - half load then the other half when 1st is burning briskly. Bit of a hassle, but it just might work.

    Grant
  7. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    I cut and pasted the SS in -obviously didn`t work.
    Will try to upload it. Got me befuddled!--not hard to do. I know where I save the SS, but it won`t show up on the list when I try to upload it. I`ll figure it out!
  8. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I omitted #4 also and cut air to 2.5 after cat engagement. I thought maybe leaving it rip on 3 for 10 would burn the galss clean but it doesn't so I start shutting down sooner which seems to help prevent the cat from going super hot as I shut it down.

    Nell, what do your wood loads look like? You mention using three splits to fill your stove 2/3 full. Well, I routinely can fit 9-10 splits in mine to fill it up and they aren't tiny splits. You must be using some giant splits which won't be as quick to ignite and burn cleanly. Maybe this is an issue? Have you seen the photos of people loading up their stoves with 12 splits?
  9. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    This is true, I can fit a bunch of splits in mine. I'm splitting bigger now that I own this stove but I have a couple years worth of splits left from my non cat. When I have fished through my stacks for bigger pieces to load with it never seems to make a big difference on burn times.

    Is this a Chinook 30 or 20, if it's posted it appears I missed it.



    [​IMG][​IMG]
  10. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    Loc:
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    Attached Files:

  11. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    Mine is the Chinook 30. My normal loads look just like yours. I put the 2 big splits in just to get them out of the way. I will do a regular full load of 12 -13 splits tonight and do this once a day for the next few days - temps will be in the high30's and 40's with rain. Won't need that much heat, so 24 hour burns will be adequate.
  12. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
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    Nellraq,
    Post some pics of yoru Chinook 30 install.... would love to see what it looks like. I love the modern look of it, I wish there where more modern looking stoves like it....
  13. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I'm not sure we can compare our temps since we have two different stoves and I was told the t-stat on the Sirocco/Chinooks are a bit different but it does look like your pipe temps are kind a high, maybe you just have real good draft and need to burn at a lower setting a bit sooner?
  14. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    Hi Todd, tonight, on a full load, I burned at 3 for 15 minutes, then 2 for 10 minutes then turned it down to 1.5 for the duration of the (hopefully) 24 hour burn.
    Basically I skipped the 10 -15 minutes at 2.5.
    Also, I closed the key damper down at the beginning of the burn and won't touch it 'till sometime tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if it lengthens the burn time at all.
    I certainly do have excellent draft with this SS liner setup.
  15. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    I've been racking my brain re. uploading pics and spreadsheets without them being 4 - 5 megs each.
    Lets try again ..if it works you should see 2 spreadsheet pics and 2 pics of the chinook install.

    Attached Files:

  16. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    What's with the wall shields? Either you meet the clearance spec or you don't.
  17. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    How'd that last burn work for you? I would think a full load of Oak should go 24+.
  18. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    I knew this question would come up!
    I'm well beyond the clearance specs. The chinook requires only 4.5 inches from the corner of the stove to the wall. I have about 9.5"
    The permanent shield was built for the Newmac stove that was installed before the BK. the side clearance was 14"--the shield reduced the clearance to 4.6"
    The other "shield" is not to code and is "portable". I built it for my upstairs installation of a PE stove. It was installed to specs but the back sheet rock would overheat every time I put any quantity of wood into that very dangerous stove. The stove is long gone.. thank goodness!
    I put the portable shield behind the Chinook - just 'cus I have it!! It's certainly not required/needed. The Chinook is by far the most controllable stove I've ever owned.
  19. nellraq

    nellraq New Member

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    Worked great! After 24 hours I still had plenty of fuel left. I raked it to the front and let it burn on Hi before I reloaded about 2 hours later. The convection stove top got down to 275 at one point, but mostly it stayed above 300. the main floor house temp never went below 22 C --about 72F.
    The load consisted of 12 splits of Fir and Larch(aka tamarack).
    Couldn't ask for a better result!

    BTW on our 6 o'clock news last night - which broadcasts throughout British Columbia - there was a segment on the Blaze King stoves. Apparently BK has just been recognized as building the cleanest burning stove in the world!! (gee... should mail the network some pics of my smoking Chinook!!)
    Any ways, they had some video of the manufacturing plant in Penticton and an employee explaining the combuster and how the stove worked.
  20. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    Chris(BKVP) had hinted around to that a while back in one of his posts.
  21. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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  22. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

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  23. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    What part do you find odd? They all use the same firebox so they only need to test one of them.
  24. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

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    Not odd, just interesting. Because they all use the same box, they don't require individual certification? We're just waiting for a Chinook with a different exterior? Just curious, that's all.
  25. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    What I find interesting is the EPA testing efficiency. I wonder why they started that and what method they use compared to the manufactures? They still have the old default efficiencies listed as well. I'd also like to see how they compare to non cats.

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