New homeowner, looking for insert/stove recommendations and placement advice

[neversummer]

Hi all, looking for some advice.

I'm a recent new homeowner and would like to install a wood stove to remove as much of my reliance on oil as I can. I have a few specific questions:

1) My house is a early 1960's built 1-level ranch, but has recently had the basement fully finished and insulated. I am deciding between where the better location for the stove would be, the basement or the main level? The basement is rarely occupied in comparison to the main level of the house, however I do need to keep the basement warn - I am a musician and my instruments/band room are on the lower level. I can keep it warm by using the current hot water baseboards if need be. I'm not looking to entirely remove my reliance on oil, but the more I can remove the better. Where is generally the best placement for a stove/insert? If we were to decide to place the stove on the main level and go with an insert, Pacific Energy's "Pacific" Insert seems to be the best for our needs. We have about 1800 sq feet, with 1300 of that on the main level and the remaining 500 in the finished basement. Any others I should consider? I'd like to get something sized for 1500 to 2000 sq feet with a burn time of at least 10 hours, due to a number of hours I spend at work away from home.

2) I have seen a few stoves that also hook up to domestic hot water or radiator baseboards. This would be great, as the bedrooms and basement is a ways away from the fireplace if I was to go with the insert, as it seems would be the least intrusive option. Unfortunately, many of these stoves were found using google and I don't think are sold in the USA... anyone running a setup like this? Seems like a best of both worlds scenario if some of the heat of the stove can be transferred to the water in the baseboards and heat the rooms that are furthest away from the stove or in the basement.

Appreciate any info you can provide to help me along

-NS

 

[branchburner]

Put the stove/insert on the larger main floor. Since the basement is small and well-insulated it should be easy/cheap enough to use the baseboard heating when needed.
For heating without need for a blower consider a free-standing wood stove vs. an insert. For heating water consider a wood furnace vs. a stove/insert.

 

[DBoon]

You'll have some difficulty heating the entire house as you describe with one insert. When you say "1 floor ranch", I picture some rooms far away from others, perhaps down the ends of long hallways.

The Pacific insert seems to be the right size for you. I think you are on the right track in regards to size. I wouldn't expect that it will maintain much "heat" at the 10 hour point, but you will be able to get a relight from coals, and it should heat your house up quickly when you get home from work.

First suggestion would be to make sure you have insulated your house very well. If the walls aren't insulated, blow in fiberglass or cellulose. Likewise for the attic - get at least R-40 in the attic. This will even out the heat in the house and make it easier to heat it from a single heat source.

Second suggestion would be to forget about heating the basement with a wood stove or insert. If you put the stove down there, the basement will have to be very hot to get enough heat upstairs to heat it well, and you will waste a lot of wood in doing so. Plus, this install will probably cost you a lot more (I'm imagining that there is no current chimney there that you can use).

Third suggestion is to forget the stoves you've seen that claim to allow water heating as well. These will likely not be of very high quality or won't burn cleanly (and will use more wood). A wood boiler (gasification boiler, preferably) is the best way to do this, and they run $6-10k with additional installation costs as well, and you need a dedicated chimney). This may be a good solution for you, but the cost is way higher, and you need room for some water storage as well. The Boiler Room is your place for advice on this.

Fourth suggestion is to be happy with taking some of the heat load off your fossil-fueled heater, but not 100%. I have a wood stove in the living room of my 1 floor 1250 square foot home. Wood stove is in the front of the house. The front 2/3 of the house is nicely warm down to 20 degrees outside with just the stove. The back 1/3 is in the low 60s. Luckily, the back 1/3 is where the bedrooms are, and we like them cooler anyways. Still, this fall we are getting our boiler zoned so that we can heat the back 1/3 separately. We have reduced our fossil fuel use by 40% (burning nights and weekends, and some mornings). Burning 24/7 requires the right floor layout, spouse, work situation, and amount of dedication. Get started with something now, and figure out what works and what doesn't, and you can always do something different in the future.

Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Swedishchef]

Neversummer,

Welcome to the forums!

Most people will tell you to install the stove in the room/area of the house you will use the most. Obviously, this is the most efficient way: heat the area you will spend time in.

If you're looking at heating the entire home with a stove or an insert, different options are possible.

I installed my stove in my basement knowing that I was going to finish it (and well insulate it). I can heat my entire house by heating the basement. If I get the basement temps around 30 degrees C, after 2-3 hours the heat will begin flowing properly through my bungalow and will assist in heating the main floor. THe basement then cools down to about 23-25 degrees and the temps upstairs will remain at 21-23. The initial heat in the basement is quite hot. But it works. A few proper floor registers, and a roaring fire, voila the house is warm (God bless passive heating).

For example, yesterday I heated my entire house with 6 pieces of poplar (cotton wood). They burned for 5 hours or so. Mind you it was only 39 degrees F outside.

If you're looking at stoves, most companies mentioned here are great. However, I have an Osburn (less popular) and it works very well and the cost is slightly less than the other big name companies. Check out their 2200 and 2400 insert.
Andrew

 

[neversummer]

All, thanks for the replies.

So far your assumptions are all correct about the house - the hallway isn't terribly long but yes bedrooms are down a hallway away from the main area. Fairly typical New England 1960's ranch, save for a few recent upgrades the previous homeowners had done. Thanks for the recommendations on the R-40 in the attic... I think currently there is a "loose" form of insulation up there, for lack of a better way to describe it. There may be some pink panther down below it, but I will definitely look into it.

I think I am going to try and experiment some time this week... I have two zones of heat in my house, one for upstairs and one for the basement. I'm going to turn the upstairs heat off and then crank the heat downstairs to about 80-85deg F and see how the heat travels through the rest of the house. I'd imagine this is not the same as a wood stove, but it should give me an idea of how the heat will flow through my house. If the downstairs stays blistering and the upstairs feels cold, I shouldn't expect a wood stove to make too much of an improvement.

If I was to put the wood stove in the basement, I can position it such that with about 5 horizontal feet of angled/horizontal pipe it will come out of the house right besides the existing chimney. Then, I can run the pipe up the length of the house behind the current chimney, with no ugly looking pipe sticking out from the front of the house (or even rear for that matter). I will need to research and see if having such a long span of horizontal pipe will overly effect the draft characteristics of the chimney. I knew that engineering degree would eventually pay off.

 

[begreen]

That sounds like a reasonable approach. You are correct about the horiz. run. It should be as short as possible, preferably not over 3ft and pitched uphill at least 1/4" / ft. You can mitigate this by coming off the stove top with a 45 deg elbow, a diagonal connector, then another 45 entering at the thimble. Using double-wall pipe here will also assist draft on the short chimney.

For now though, I agree with Branchburner and am siding with the first floor installation. The system is zoned so that the basement can be kept at about 60 while the upstairs gets nicely warmed by the stove. To get heat to the other rooms, place a fan on the floor, at the far end of the hallway, facing the stove room and run it on low. That will deliver cool air toward the heat and this will in turn be replaced with warm air from the stove room. Reports are that this works pretty well in ranches.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hi all, looking for some advice.

I'm a recent new homeowner and would like to install a wood stove to remove as much of my reliance on oil as I can. I have a few specific questions:

1) My house is a early 1960's built 1-level ranch, but has recently had the basement fully finished and insulated. I am deciding between where the better location for the stove would be, the basement or the main level? The basement is rarely occupied in comparison to the main level of the house, however I do need to keep the basement warn - I am a musician and my instruments/band room are on the lower level. I can keep it warm by using the current hot water baseboards if need be. I'm not looking to entirely remove my reliance on oil, but the more I can remove the better. Where is generally the best placement for a stove/insert? If we were to decide to place the stove on the main level and go with an insert, Pacific Energy's "Pacific" Insert seems to be the best for our needs. We have about 1800 sq feet, with 1300 of that on the main level and the remaining 500 in the finished basement. Any others I should consider? I'd like to get something sized for 1500 to 2000 sq feet with a burn time of at least 10 hours, due to a number of hours I spend at work away from home.

My own take . . . put the woodstove on the floor where you spend most of the time . . . you will enjoy the heat more and be able to experience more of its pleasures -- namely being the feel of the heat, sight of the fire burning and smell of potpourri simmering on the stove top. You will also be able to monitor it better if it's in an area that you are mostly hanging out in . . . I would use the hot water baseboard for the basement . . . which will most likely have pretty stable temps anyways.

I think you are wise to go with a stove in the 1,500-2,000 square footage range if you're hoping to heat 1,300 square footage in the main area . . .

PEs are highly regarded . . . for really long burns Woodstocks and Blaze Kings (heck, many of the stoves with catalytic combustors) do very well . . .

2) I have seen a few stoves that also hook up to domestic hot water or radiator baseboards. This would be great, as the bedrooms and basement is a ways away from the fireplace if I was to go with the insert, as it seems would be the least intrusive option. Unfortunately, many of these stoves were found using google and I don't think are sold in the USA... anyone running a setup like this? Seems like a best of both worlds scenario if some of the heat of the stove can be transferred to the water in the baseboards and heat the rooms that are furthest away from the stove or in the basement.

Sounds good in theory . . . but as you mentioned . . . you don't see too many hook ups like this except for the folks running woodstove boilers to heat the entire home . . . there may be a reason for this . . . me . . . I like simple . . . and it doesn't get much simpler than a big metal and/or stone box with a door and one or two levers to operate.


Appreciate any info you can provide to help me along

-NS

 

[neversummer]

Thanks all, looks like an insert on the main floor is the way to go.

Any advice on catalytic vs. non-catalytic?

 

[branchburner]

I think a cat will give a bit more control and efficiency as far as heat output, wood use, and emissions. I believe Buck sells as far north as CT, and it might be worth considering the model 20 (on the smaller side, 6" flue) or model 80 (on the larger side, 8" flue) as options.
Edit - a cat also has the potential to provide longer burn time for a given size firebox.

 

[neversummer]

So why would an individual -not- want a catalytic stove? More parts to break, higher cost, etc.?

 

[briv]

Neversummer,

Putting the stove/insert on the main floor is the way to go. I've got just about the same layout as you, 1300 sf ranch and half a finished basement with the stairs on one side of the house and the bedrooms on the other. Just bought the house a year ago and put an old buck insert in the basement. I just can't get the heat up to the main floor no matter how much cold air I push down the stairs (have not cut in air registers yet).

Save yourself the trouble and install it on the main floor.

 

[branchburner]

So why would an individual -not- want a catalytic stove? More parts to break, higher cost, etc.?

Cats are perceived as "old technology" because of some performance/quality issues in earlier models, and are still widely perceived as high maintenance. It is true, current state-of-the-art cat stoves do require more maintenance than a typical non-cat, but that does not make them high maintenance.

An extra step is required in the operation of the stove (shutting a bypass damper at a certain temp) and the combustor must be cleaned a few times a year (takes a few minutes) and eventually replaced ($100-200 a pop every 5 to 10 years, depending on mileage). For that price you potentially get a cleaner, longer burn using less wood, with a greater ability to "dial down" the heat output of the stove.

The degree to which those marginal benefits really matter is a topic of much debate, and in the end it boils down to personal preference and priorities. But go into just about any stove shop and they will strongly discourage the purchase of a catalytic stove. Less explainin', less complainin'.

 

[firefighterjake]

So why would an individual -not- want a catalytic stove? More parts to break, higher cost, etc.?

A lot has to do with people being uninformed . . . both consumers and sales persons . . . they may be thinking back on early generation cat stoves which left a distaste in some folk's mouths . . . figuratively, not literally.

Some folks think the cat stoves are more complicated to use . . . as Dennis would be the first to tell you . . . if someone considers "complicated" being the addition of one extra lever than that person probably shouldn't be burning any wood in any stove.

Some folks think that the cat stoves require more maintenance . . . and again Dennis would tell you that taking out the cat and brushing it off with a paint brush every cord or so is a pretty simple task.

It is true that the combustors need to be replaced after a few years . . . one reason I originally steered away from these stoves . . . but many cat stove owners will tell you the benefits of the "low and slow" burns and the savings in wood trumps the replacement costs when you do the math on how much wood you save vs. the cost of the combustor.

I know for me another deciding factor was folks were saying cat stoves really needed well seasoned wood to burn or there would be a risk to the cat . . . truth of the matter is the secondary burners are probably a little more forgiving of less than optimally seasoned wood . . . but to truly burn cleanly and most efficiently all stoves need well seasoned wood.

Finally, for some . . . the spectacular view of the secondaries firing off may be a real draw . . . although I suspect not many folks go with a secondary burner for this reason . . . most likely the main reason is due to folks' inexperience and misinformation about cat stoves.

 

[begreen]

I would say it's a bit more than just lack of information. A cat needs a degree more of operational attention: one has to be careful not to pollute the cat and a bypass needs to be engaged when the fire is up to temperature. This isn't a big deal for some, but it does add another layer of complexity. If there are multiple operators of the stove, this could be a factor. The bypass mechanism mean more parts to maintain and with the opportunity to fail. And then there is the combustor itself, which will need replacement on a regular basis, though with care we are seeing longer replacement intervals for some stoves.

Additionally, not all styles of stoves are offered with cats. And the style of the stoves that do offer cats may not please the purchaser or meet the installation requirements. So for example, the only cat stove that passed the wife appeal in our house for the living room was the VC Encore. Unfortunately, the complexity of the system, corner clearance requirements and known refractory problems held us off, even though I could have got one for a very low price. The upshot is we ended up having a close clearance non-cat stove that adheres to the KISS principal. No regrets so far with that decision.

That said, I'd still like to run one for a season or two. The new Woodstock stove has my curiosity piqued.

 

[FyreBug]

Hi there and welcome to the forums. Down the road you may want to consider an wood add-on furnace. Or if your furnace is old even replacing it with a wood/oil/electric combo furnace. The benefits of this are obvious, such as getting whole house central wood heating, reducing your dependance on oil etc...

The drawback will be a higher initial cost, but it pays itself nicely over time. It's more practical if your chimney is close to your furnace room and you can hook up to it.

Sometimes wood burning makes the house drier in the winter. At least that what I found. So if you have wood musical instruments it's good to check the humidity levels and if it gets too dry get a humidifier in the room where you keep the guitars and keep it around 50%.

I play bass btw.

 

[begreen]

Hot water heat will require a boiler. Wood boilers on a small place often don't make good economic sense unless one uses are European style jacket heater on the wood stove or insert to supplement the heat.

 

[FyreBug]

The Max Caddy furnace has a how water pre-heat coil option. Basically preheats a buffer hot water tank that you main tanks draws on.

 

[krex1010]

I have a PE pacific insert, this is my first season with this stove but already I am impressed with this unit. The firebox is big enough to get some nice long burn times, i have been able to get 6 or 8 hours of heat with good coals for 10 or 11 hours and I have yet to fill the firebox all the way.
My house is a 1500sq ft cape cod and so far on the few chilly nights we have had I have been able to heat the whole house, I know it may be a different story come January when it is cold all day but I am happy so far. I think you will be happy with the pacific.