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NEW IN-FLOOR SETUP IN THE SHOP

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by jimdeq, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,294
    Loc:
    Northern MN
    Need to add that when the Ranco calls for heat, it turns "on" both the radiant circ and the circ that supplies the system side of the HX.

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  2. jimdeq

    jimdeq Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    205
    Loc:
    northeastern wisconsin
    Thank you Jebatty,DBB,and EW it seems as though you are all on the same page which makes me feel good about proceding. A couple of quick comments, I dont think my shop needs to be as warm as yours Jebatty ,so at what point do you hinder the performance of infloor. In a perfect setup for me the infloor would stay set at the minimum temp required for thermal mass consistency without sending super low return temps back to the boiler via termovar. Is 50 degrees too low? What about a Timer set to pump to the shop for 3 hours in the late afternoon when my storage is depleted anyway?

    DBB, Due to having the glycol I was going to use a hydronic unit heater and not use any gas burning appliance. As I stated with Jebatty then I could just boost the heat up with the unit heater if I am home and there is a fire burning.

    My system is heating the shop ,but also a 2200 square foot home and DHW for 4 (2 teenagers). I do have 1140 gallons of presurized storage and have been only making one fire per 24 hours, I understand that may change with the shop now but at the 24 hour mark I usually have about 1140 gallons with a temp of 160 on top to 130 on bottom so there is useable BTUs to send to the shop.
  3. woodsmaster

    woodsmaster Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,433
    Loc:
    N.W. Ohio
    I cant answer about the termovar as I use a danfoss. Here are some thoughts though. I've been using a timer to heat my
    shop for almost two seasons. I ran out of funds for the thermostat when I installed everything and just haven't found it necessary
    to get one. I will buy one eventually. First year I kept the shop between 50 and 55 f. Didn't have any trouble keeping it between those temps. The danfoss always kept the return water to boiler 140 or above no matter what the temp of storage. there are
    usable btu's in your storage, but If you start dumping heat into the cool slab it won't take long at all to deplete your storage.
    I've been running my timer for the floor when the boiler is going to make the storage last longer. That slab can really use the
    storage up quick especially When you only run the circ. once / day. This year I'm keeping the shop between 55 - 65 depending
    on how much im out there. I plane on making a unit heater this year. I will the keep the shop at 50 and use the
    unit heater when doing projects out there.
  4. jebatty

    jebatty Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    4,294
    Loc:
    Northern MN
    Off hand I can't think of a point where infloor is hindered. Keep in mind that it will take hours and lots of btu's to raise the floor to higher point from a lower point. For my floor with the sensor set ON at 61F and OFF at 62F, floor actual ends up at 63F (maybe briefly at 64F) as heat continues to migrate through the concrete. The sensor is set in the middle between two loops. Also, this 1-2F temperature increase takes about 83,000 btu's, which also means that it drops storage temp by about 10F.

    I don't think 50F is too low, perhaps something like mine and supply at 90F rather than 100F. Keep in mind that water from the boiler/storage may be anywhere up to 180F or so, or much lower, and will be getting mixed down to 90F, which means the return to the HX may be considerably higher, depending on Side A and Side B flow rates.

    A timer may work, at the cost of over-shooting or under-shooting desired floor temp. You can experiment with the timer and find a good middle ground. It might be helpful if you installed or can install a floor sensor to read floor temperature.

    Here is an example from data I recorded on Dec 3, 2010, which appears to be near the end of a floor ON cycle and also at a point where storage is nearly depleted. Also, Side A flow rate is with a 007 and is quite high, while Side B flow is with a 009 through the floor with flow of about 2.75 gpm, which explains the low Side A temp drop compared to the high Side B temp drop

    AIN = HX SIDE A SUPPLY FROM STORAGE = 105.35
    AOUT = HX SIDE A RETURN TO STORAGE = 99.5
    BIN = HX SIDE B RADIANT FLOOR RETURN = 72.275
    BOUT = HX SIDE B MIX VALVE SUPPLY TO RADIANT FLOOR = 102.2
    FL = FLOOR = 64.0625
    L1/R1 = TOP OF TANK TEMP = 107 +/-
    L4/R4 = BOTTOM OF TANK TEMP = 104+/-
    OU = OUTSIDE AIR TEMP = -1.75
    IN = INSIDE AIR TEMP = 56.525

    Code:
      #     ID#          DATE     TIME        TEMP   SENSOR
    521,0000027B7420,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",72.275,BIN
    521,00000220F620,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",105.8,L2
    521,0000025BBED8,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",102.2,BOUT
    521,00000220D3F8,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",106.025,R3
    521,0000027B8B34,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",99.5,AOUT
    521,0000021E05CC,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",64.0625,FL
    521,000002B500FC,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",83.75,SU
    521,0000027B8F2E,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",103.8875,L4
    521,0000027B71BE,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",104.9,L3
    521,000002B53FBE,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",87.4625,RT
    521,0000021DEB2D,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",106.1375,L1
    521,000002210993,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",105.35,AIN
    521,0000027B6CCB,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",107.15,R1
    521,0000027CE347,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",56.525,IN
    521,00000291CE67,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",104.5625,R2
    521,0000021DE117,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",105.6875,R4
    521,0000027CD87F,"12/3/2010 8:10:06 AM",-1.75,OU
    
  5. jimdeq

    jimdeq Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2010
    Messages:
    205
    Loc:
    northeastern wisconsin
    Thanks for all the great info. Nothing beats real exprience as you all have. Great numbers Jebatty. I hope my system can run as smooth as yours. I will keep use posted on my progress and maybe some pics.
  6. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    I have a water to air heater plumbed in on the primary loop on my boiler for the garage. The floor only gets 130ish* water which wouldn't do a lot on that hanging heater.

    I leave the garage floor heat on at 55* and the T Stat for the water to air set to ~50*. The idea is when I open the door to pull stuff in or out and it cools down the garage, that it helps to recover faster. Also if I wanted to I could kick it up to 60-65 while I'm in there, but I find 55* just fine when I'm working on stuff.

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