New member with Heritage at end of 5th season

[duran7]

Intro: I bought my Heritage fall of 2007. In 2000 sf, 1880 colonial in NH, stone foundation, you get the picture, not the best house in the winter in that it has 1960s windows etc etc. Put the Heritage in a fairly large fireplace (5'w x 4'h) with 75% outside the face of the fireplace, or as far as the brick hearth would allow. Rear vented, 6" 25' single piece SS liner with cap and a 3 foot extension at bottom. I installed. The SS liner was not long enough so I guestimate my straight shot flu pipe is 28 feet up, T comes right out of the back collar. In a 10x10 terracotta flu. No insulation, just the cap's 10x10 flange on top of terracotta flue with caulking. Chimney top is 5' above peek of roof, the rest is internal to the house. Had sweep after 2nd season, a great deal of creosote at top. My gut tells me that the last 5' of the 28' is cold and thus creosote friendly. I also know, after reading endless posts here, that I was a complete post EPA and Soapstone NOVICE, I operated the stove incorrectly. For sure! But, I have learned a lot and here are my three topics.

First, I am not a fan of paying $100 per year to clean the top 10 feet. Should I insulate the liner in the old chimney flue? But let me share some more info dependent info before you comment.

Second, I am on my third baffle. I just bought one from my original dealer for $45 and I find them (the dealer) less than helpful. After reading the 600 F episode, I knew I needed to at least start with a new baffle before I tested my ability. Today, I cleaned the inside and put in my old baffle and new baffle on top of the old. I did some thoughtful experimenting and review with flashlight and glasses on and it seems to be a fair way to protect the new baffle. See these photos.

General post instal of "two baffles". I tightened up the wire a tad after the photos.

The broken area.....by the three holes it comes with.....operator error and a weakened design caused my last one to fail.

Looking for confirmation the steel leading baffle support is in correctly. I think I failed to put it in correctly last time. This time it looks right per Hearthstone's PDF on how to put in a new baffle. Comment if I have it wrong.

Third, I freeze in the room with the stove! I had a fellow wood burner over a few months back and he commented on how it just never got warm. My bias that I "bought the best" has gotten in the way in past years. This year, given the cost of heating oil and college, I decided to investigate. I would visit his house and he would be toasty warm with his cast iron Jotul F 3 CB. I made this mental comparison a few times and I was darn near ready to find an old cast iron stove and move on. Then I found this forum. I got a Rutland thermostat loaned to me and my baffle put in. I went for a correct max center stone burn by slowly closing and opening the primary in order to find the sweet spot.

On my third wood load today, post baffle replacement, I cherry picked some nice 2 year dry maple splits and did my very best. Roar got me to 300. Closed things down and finally topped out or "nursed it to" 475. I'm "coaling" now and center stone is 430. Glass is clean. Primary was shut and 475 hung in there for about 45 minutes. Opening it and closing it a few times would not get me north of 475. Obviously this is no where near 600 or even 575. And, it was more TLC than is practical in our household.

So, given issue number one, too much creosote at the top. Spotting scope view of my vent would indicate I am again getting too much creosote. But, a flu damper would make this condition worse? I gather my long stack makes me a candidate for one but my cold last 5 feet would tell me otherwise. The manual also suggested a cold stack could contribute to a under performing wood stove. I really want more heat. I tested with good fuel and got my temps. I could add I moved the Rutland to the flu and temps fell 75f but that was not a very good sampling method IMO.

In short, I have this "great stove" which has under impressed me. I am now, 5 years later, learning things I should have learned when I first got the stove. Yes, my gaskets could use replacement. That is a different post but I don't think that would have great bearing on my "center stone" max temp. I likely have some creosote build up at the cap but other than a safety issue, I don't see that limiting my "center stone" max temp. It is 74f in a 300 sf room with 7 foot ceilings. Max temp was an hour ago. I am working on sealing and insulation but.....this is not reasonable when it is only 31 out and calm.

I estimate we have burned 2.5 cords per year so a total of 13 cords have gone through the stove. Not that much compared to what I have read.

1. Do I alter my liner?
2. Is my baffle approach reasonable?
3. How do I increase my operating temp? Damper? Insulate liner? What am I missing?

Thanks for your input. I hope I provided the key information.

Thanks!

Cold in NH.

 

[Highbeam]

I bought my stove about the same time as you bought yours. I have never replaced the baffle except when I removed it for cleaning. You have the SS bracket in properly.

Nothing happens fast with non-cat stone stoves. You say you "opened and closed it a few times" trying to get past 475 with no luck. You need to make a change and then wait 30 minutes to see what happens.

I suspect that your wood is wet and/or split too large. I can tell by the color of your stove's interior that you aren't getting a clean burn which, in a non-cat with 25 foot stack, is caused by poor fuel.

Leave your flue setup alone, it is actually quite good. Once you address your wood issue then a flue damper would be a fine idea.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Wow, third baffle in five year. I'm on the second year of a used Heritage that is about the same age as your and the baffle still looks new. And I burn my Heritage hotter than most here (regularly at 550-600 degrees).

You need to be more patient with the stove controls. Also, if you are using wet wood, it will be more difficult to get it over 450 degrees. It is possible, just a pain in the ass to do it.

 

[Wood Duck]

Yeah, tell us about your firewood.

 

[duran7]

Well, here is the update. First, the positive news. Or I want to look at it as positive. I am keeping a log of wood in time, temp, damper position etc etc. My first logged load was at 5:25p when the stove had a strong bed of coals and center stone was 360. By 7:15p I was at 540. I did not over fiddle with it and was more patient. By 9:30p I was down to 350 and a strong bed of coals. I reloaded at 9:40 and by 10:30 I was back up to 545. So I am seeing higher temps which is good. One cycle was 5:25 to 9:40 which is fair.

Wood. Well, I am not that organized regarding wood. I try to scrounge as much wood as possible so it everything from collected rounds that I did not split timely to rounds that I did split timely and, my bad, I generally get it all mixed together. So, I can have 2 year dried wood and perhaps 1 year dried wood. My system is not working yet and scrounging does not lead it self to an easy system. I am currently down to some 2 year S/S/S wood which is helping temps.

Split size. I have read a lot about Hearthstone stove owners trials and tribulations. I don't recall seeing a discussion of how small to spit wood down to. What is the optimal size to get splits down to?

I have one other question. What is the best process post peak temp? I am finding once I hit peak temp, I turn primary to closed and let it run. It would seem (with my old gaskets) that it burns gently at peak for about 45 minutes and then slowly goes to hot coals. Do folks to leave it closed until it is time to refuel? This is my current method.

It is 10:55 now and I am at 550 so I have picked up 5 more degrees with a closed primary. Strong secondary burn. Room is at 80. I am better off but I think there is still room for improvement on my part.

Wood going forward. I have 1.5 cords of ash and hickory that is in rounds but needs to be split. Dropped this winter. I have 1.5 cords of 1 year old rounds, mega rounds of maple and ash that I have quartered and stacked. I am looking to borrow or rent a splitter. The old maple is a monster. I have some poplar that needs to be cut and split. Junk I know but based on what I have read, something to feather in with the good stuff. My wood collection, rotation system is haphazard. Given the price of a moisture meter maybe that would help me do a better job. Sadly I don't have next season's wood all S/S/S ready to go. I think if I had a splitter I would have things more organized.

I have a Husky 372XP 20" that with a sharp chain can cut some wood if I can find it. I may order 3 cords and based on what I learn, split the big stuff down to the right size and try to get ahead one year.

I am almost to 560 or 300c which says "overburn" on the Rutland thermometer.

So....my new questions which I need to search on and figure out....

1. What is the optimal split size?
2. Once you are at peak, damper off, how do you manage the "down hill" of the Heritage burn cycle to maximize BTU value of wood.
3. I am open for constructive criticism of my wood management. Do people really sort by species? Teach family how to load by species? Own moisture meters?
4. Since I have to return this Rutland, what is the best way to manage temp? Buy a pyrometer and be able to shoot flue and center stone? Get my own Rutland?

Here we are at 11:22, it is coming off of peak which was an honest 300c.

 

[Highbeam]

That's a good fire. I actually prefer not to exceed 550 since 600 is the redline according to the owner's manual.

Your Qs:

1) 3-5" the big dimension.
2) Leave the air setting alone. Not much you can do after peak since you are in coaling stage. If I need to maintain high output then I'll reload if there is room once the stove temp drops too much.
3) Don't sort by species. Do make sure that all my wood is ready to burn. I keep one year ahead, meaning I have about 1.5 years worth in the yared right now. All wood is good wood.
4) Get your own rutland. I have one just like your photo on my stove top center stone. I also have a flue probe meter from condar which I like. You need the stove top meter for sure since you are trying to get max output you will be flirting with the max allowable temps, you need to know. They're like 10$.

The best thing you can do is begin accumulating wood and allowing it to season for next year. Cut, split, and stacked to dry. It won't dry out unless it is split and stacked.

 

[Wood Duck]

I have a different stove, but my procedure is to open the air more and more as the fire goals to all coals. This helps keep the coals burnt down and gives a little more heat, I think. I never close the primary all the way, but that will vary depending on the amount of draft provided by your flue - fully closed on your setup might be the same at partially open with the same stove but a different flue.

I wouldn't expect a log splitter to help you get more organized. I'd try simply separating your firewood into distinct stacks, and burn them first in first out. You might build 1 cord stacks. When you scrounge and split enough for a cord, move on to stacking the next cord. When you burn start with the oldest wood. I don't separate by species in the stacks, just sort it out as I burn it and save the better wood for nighttime or colder days.

I am not sure that burning wood that might not be seasoned well explains why your baffle plate is deteriorating. It might explain your difficulty with getting the stove as hot as you'd like.

 

[Highbeam]

The only reason that the baffle plate is broken is because of operator error. It was wacked with something. Seems to be a frequent occurance.

 

[DAKSY]

Get yourself a moisture meter so you can verify
the water content of your wood. You're wasting too
many BTUs trying to boil the water out. The moisture
is causing your creosote build up at the top of your flue.
You can mix ALL your wood together as long as it's dry.
You have a good stove there & with the right MC in your
wood it'll heat you nicely. It won't give you that "burn the
hair off your face" heat of a steel or solid cast iron stove,
but it WILL keep you toasty.

 

[daleeper]

I don't have a fireplace install, and have never even had one, but from what I've read here and on other sites, there are a couple of things that I wonder might be contributing to your problems. One is the lack of insulation in your chimney liner install, and second, in this type of install, shouldn't there be some sort of block-off plate, or something that would keep air from moving up between the chimney and the liner inside the top of the fireplace. I don't see anything mentioned about that sort of thing in your first post, maybe you do have something like this though.

Another thing I am wondering about, are you starting a fire everyday, or do you keep the stove running most of the time? That soapstone is going to be slow to warm up if you are starting it every day.

I would also say that your wood is a part of the issue. Do what you can to get ahead for next year now, and then do the best with what you have for this year. Beg, borrow, but don't steal some good wood to complete this year, and get to work on next year and beyond. In order to get ahead myself, I took a weeks vacation to do just that, now I have been able to keep ahead with my normal cutting on weekends and evenings.

On the chimney cleaning, either learn to do it yourself, as the equipment wouldn't cost much more than one cleaning, or learn to appreciate the value of a chimney well cleaned done by someone else, but do not neglect the cleaning and inspection of the chimney at least once a year. Especially while you are burning not-so dry wood.

 

[Dairyman]

Sound like your getting it dialed in. Get your ash and maple s/s as soon as you can as it will dry the quickest.

 

[duran7]

Hello again. I have been lurking hard in The Woodshed and getting some help in The Gear. This is a truly great community. I just read the entire learning curve of the T6. Wow! Looks like I got the wrong stove! What is done is done. Getting ready for season #6.

Background: Based on input here and other readings, this non cat, secondary burn design stove (Hearthstone Heritage) needs very dry wood and small splits. I have moved my woodpile out from under the canopy into the sun and air and re split everything. Not to get too much into the woodshed area of discussion, but, the wood was cut into 20" stove length by me last fall but not split. Small trees, 10" at bottom. Sat stacked un split in wind and snow and sun until this spring. I relocated and split this early summer and it will hopefully be ready this fall. That is a year. I also have some sugar maple huge rounds that I quartered two years ago, tree cut 3 years ago. I am splitting the quarters now and hope it too may be an option this winter. Read, I am trying to get 5 cords up by fall and will burn 2.5 each year. I'm ahead of where I have been in the past but know I have to get better. Wife thinks I am nuts and wants me to stop as she thinks we have too much wood. I have just 2.5 cords re split and drying wood.

At issue: I have a major problem with my liner.

Late last season after "getting it dialed in" as to how to get the Heritage up to efficient temp, I started to get smoke coming back down the chimney. There, I have admitted it. I put my own liner in per the directions of the stove store. There was no mention of insulation. I had my stack cleaned once after 2nd season. 5 gallon sheet rock pail had 3 gallons of creosote. At $100 a cleaning I was doing it every other year. That might be the first mistake. Although my wood was dry by my standards, I suspect it was not dry enough. Second mistake. Long stack likely should have been insulated to reduce "condensation" or creosote at top of stack.

So. Do I pull the lining myself and inspect? After putting it in, I know that is no small task and my chimney is at the apex of the ridge and is 5 feet off the apex. Read, it is all upper body strength to pull liner. I did it twice when putting it in new. I suspect now it is heavier even post clean. And, I suspect the heating and cooling cycles has made it brittle. I have not found any threads on pulling liners. Any wisdom?

Or, should I admit defeat and seek a good sweep to evaluate the issue and suggest repair. Legally, I suspect the only reply will be get a new liner.

So, there you have it. I wish I had read this forum in 2007 and gained a better understanding. I visit other houses who are all cast iron stoves, many pre EPA and they just don't seem to have the complexity that I have with my stove. My SIL had a Heritage in Montana. New ultra insulated house. Not like me. Interior stack, not like me. Burn fir that in their low moisture world, likely dries out in 3 months. Not like me. My dream stove has just not been a dream experience but I am in no position to replace it.

Thanks for the input on how to best approach a potentially damaged liner. Back out to split those Maple quarters if for no other reason to release my frustration.

JD