New Mt.Vernon AE pellet stove owner - not as toasty as I thought!

[becasunshine]

P.S. My apologies to gregt23 for hijacking your thread.

BecaSunshine <---- Thread Thief

I'm sorry!

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Some stoves have a choke plate at the inlet to the auger. That plate allows the feed rate range to be set. If yours has one, it is possibly set wrong. You would have to know how many pounds per hour are expected for a correct setup.
That being said, manufacturers have been know to lie misrepresent the capabilities of their product. Don't know, just conjecture.

 

[becasunshine]

Some stoves have a choke plate at the inlet to the auger. That plate allows the feed rate range to be set. If yours has one, it is possibly set wrong. You would have to know how many pounds per hour are expected for a correct setup.
That being said, manufacturers have been know to lie misrepresent the capabilities of their product. Don't know, just conjecture.

I have finished some other household chores- clothes on the line, etc. and I have run the hose on the Shop Vac all the way up the exhaust vent pipe to the stove from outside the house. I have the Shop Vac in the house now and I'm getting ready to vacuum out the empty hopper, take the combustion side of the stove off, pull the combustion fan motor and vacuum out the exhaust path.

Harvey, can you tell me what I should see in terms of a choke plate at the inlet to the auger? 'Cause I will sure look for that while I'm in there.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Harvey, can you tell me what I should see in terms of a choke plate at the inlet to the auger? 'Cause I will sure look for that while I'm in there.

I'm not familiar with your stove, but what I would look for is small plate with slotted holes and held in place by one or two screws. The plate can slide on the screws in the slots to alter the size of the opening from the hopper to the auger.
I have this on my bottom feed 25-PDVC.

 

[becasunshine]

I'm not familiar with your stove, but what I would look for is small plate with slotted holes and held in place by one or two screws. The plate can slide on the screws in the slots to alter the size of the opening from the hopper to the auger.
I have this on my bottom feed 25-PDVC.

I do not have that plate at the intersection of the hopper and the auger. Here's a picture of the auger in the empty hopper.

Also, I did a "one Mississippi, two Mississippi" count on feed rate 4 while I had the auger turning, so I could vacuum out all fines and the remainder of the pellets, and start fresh with new pellets. (I cannot believe this, but I do not appear to have any sort of digital stop watch thingy around here. Don't even ask about my coal-fired cell phone. It can call a tow truck if I'm stuck and that's about it, but that's about all I want in a cell phone anyway.)

Based on my count, feed rate four is as follows:

Auger turns every EIGHT seconds
When the auger begins turning, it turns for TWO seconds. After the auger finishes turning, there is a SIX second interval before it begins to turn again.

 

[becasunshine]

Also causing me a slight amount of concern at the moment:

Apparently the last time we pulled the combustion motor to vacuum the exhaust path, we caught one of the electrical wires that supplies the combustion motor in between the gasket and the housing, and tightened the motor mount down on it.

The portion of the wire that was entrapped was flattened when I found it, with some fibers from the gasket stuck to it. I brushed the fibers away. The rubber wire casing, while flat, appears to be intact. I see no bare wire. The wire is not hot to touch, neither at the flattened part nor anywhere else on the wire.

The combustion motor seems to be running normally. Everything sounds as I expect it to sound. I see no smoke coming from the motor nor from the wire.

I'm thinking we dodged a bullet here.

I've attached a couple of bad pictures. It's an awkward place to take a picture; our stove is set into a corner at an angle and there's not a lot of space on either side.

If anybody knows any reason why we should replace this wire, splice it? or, if we can't, replace the combustion motor, please tell me!

 

[Harvey Schneider]

If there was a possibility of getting some shrink tubing over the damaged wire that would be my preferred way of insulating it. Otherwise, I would wrap it with electrical tape.

 

[becasunshine]

Aha. Electrical tape. I can do that!

I started the stove with 40 lbs. of Turman's at around 2pm. Based on a 4 lbs./hour feed rate, which is supposedly what will happen at setting number 4, then we should have an empty hopper at midnight. So, we shall see!

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Id wrap the wire in electrical tape but if it was causing an issue you'd know by now. The Mt Vernon AE is the only quad that doesnt have an adjustable feed gate, it regulates pellet feed via the wall control through the flame height adjustment option.

 

[becasunshine]

Id wrap the wire in electrical tape but if it was causing an issue you'd know by now. The Mt Vernon AE is the only quad that doesnt have an adjustable feed gate, it regulates pellet feed via the wall control through the flame height adjustment option.

That wire is all wrapped up in electrical tape. Stove running like a top on feed 4 with a bag of Turman's. (Glad to be finished with the ashy pellets.) There does not appear to be a problem with the combustion fan; it is running smoothly and quietly. We'll see how long it takes the stove to burn through this 40 lbs. bag of pellets at feed setting 4!

 

[becasunshine]

This is what currently remains of a 40 lbs. bag of Turman's that was placed in the stone cold empty, freshly vacuumed hopper at 2pm today. The hopper holds 55 lbs.

The feed rate has been set exactly on 4 since 2pm. According to the stove manual, a feed rate of 4 should burn 4 lbs. an hour.

This means that at midnight tonight, this hopper should be empty. The attached picture was taken at 9pm. Do you think that this hopper will be empty at midnight? No?

Me either.

The feed rate is off on this stove.

Now, what to do about it?

 

[Harvey Schneider]

There are several possibilities that come to mind:

1. A loose auger coupling
2. The auger is being inhibited by the vacuum switch
   • Vac leak
   • bad switch
   • clogged tubing
3. An intermittent auger motor connection
4. A control board problem (bad driver)

My favorite is #2

 

[chken]

Based on my count, feed rate four is as follows:

Auger turns every EIGHT seconds
When the auger begins turning, it turns for TWO seconds. After the auger finishes turning, there is a SIX second interval before it begins to turn again.

I'm sure a MVAE owner can tell you, but that doesn't sound like a 4 pound/hour rate. If I were to guess, I'd say that's like 1.5 to 2 pounds an hour.

 

[becasunshine]

There are several possibilities that come to mind:

1. A loose auger coupling
2. The auger is being inhibited by the vacuum switch
   • Vac leak
   • bad switch
   • clogged tubing
3. An intermittent auger motor connection
4. A control board problem (bad driver)

My favorite is #2

Ok, I pulled the vacuum tube off a couple of weeks ago to do the Leaf Blower Trick. I didn't check it to see if it was clogged, but I can do that easily enough.

How would we test for a vacuum leak?

I ran the stove for a few minutes today when the hopper was completely empty. I wanted to vacuum all of the fines out of the auger, and it helped to turn the auger. The auger appeared to be turning normally.

I also timed the auger cycle at feed setting 4. It was as follows:

The auger turns every 8 seconds. The duration of the auger turn is 2 seconds. The turning is followed by a 6 second idle period.

The auger's turning is signaled appropriately by the auger movement light on the control panel.

The auger does not appear to be jammed. The auger motor sounds fine.

I have sent a message to Napoleon's customer service through their web site.

That's what I have right now.

 

[becasunshine]

I'm sure a MVAE owner can tell you, but that doesn't sound like a 4 pound/hour rate. If I were to guess, I'd say that's like 1.5 to 2 pounds an hour.

It corresponds almost exactly to a 2 lbs./hour feed rate, as we clocked it last night. Twenty seven hours to burn through a full 55 lbs. hopper.

 

[rickh117]

Hello All - I am glad I found this forum to get real world advise and answers from real world users.
We just had a new Mt.Vernon AE pellet stove insert installed. I have had several evenings to "play" with the stove and the thermostat. To this point I am somewhat disappointed in the performance. Several people I talked with (including the company I purchased from and his installers) told us how it would pretty much "run us out" of our living room because of the heat output. As of this point - and having it run all night on high or medium high or leaving the thermostat set at about 75 degrees - I have yet to get the temp of the room over about 68 degrees. Here is some background - 12 year old stick built home, 2x6 exterior walls, good insulation. The living room, kitchen and dining area are one large, open concept room with vaulted ceilings. Total square footage is about 1500 - 1700 sq. ft. We have a ceiling fan running in the main living room area and it is located just out front and above the stove. I have had the fan running in both directions and at various speeds without any difference in temp. I have increased the flame from the 0 setting up to +4 and do not notice any heat output difference.
I am just curious if this large of an area with vaulted (about 18 feet at its highest point) ceilings may be too large of an area to expect a temp of 70 to 75 degrees. Any suggestions or information would be greatly appreciated.
I am burning premium hardwood pellets (Easy Heat). The company I purchased the stove from and the pellets (Schlemmer Brothers in Wabash, In - GREAT, GREAT, GREAT group of people and very good to do business with) just started using these pellets and even they say they are probably not the best on the market. I am going to try a different brand when Schlemmer Bros. gets a new shipment to see if this helps.
Thank you in advance for any help or ideas that can be offered.

Make sure you hit the hold setting on your wall control or it will go into its program cycle that the default setting is 68

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Make sure you hit the hold setting on your wall control or it will go into its program cycle that the default setting is 68

?

Why not just set up the program to be what you want it to be?

 

[becasunshine]

... and here's the hopper at midnight, after a continuous 10 hour burn on feed setting 4 (which should feed 4 lbs. of pellets/hour) which started with a 40 lbs. bag of pellets at 2pm. There's about half a bag of pellets left in the hopper.

Per above, it's more like a 2 lbs./hour feed rate.

I sent a note to Napoleon through their web site. I received an auto-reply email which requested me to send any additional information, documentation, etc. associated with or describing my issue in reply to that auto-reply email. I did so. I described the situation again, and I sent along the 9pm picture and the midnight picture, showing the remaining level of pellets.

We'll see what Napoleon says!

 

[becasunshine]

Same stove, same 40 lbs. bag of pellets, same feed setting of 4 (which is supposed to feed 4 lbs./hour) just after 11am the next day, 21 hours and change into one 40 lbs. bag of pellets. We probably still have about an hour's worth of pellets here, maybe two hours of pellets at this stove's feed rate.

 

[stoveguy13]

The auger turns every 8 seconds. The duration of the auger turn is 2 seconds. The turning is followed by a 6 second idle period. The auger's turning is signaled appropriately by the auger movement light on the control panel.

this sounds way off i would think it should be the other way around off for 2 on for 6

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Same stove, same 40 lbs. bag of pellets, same feed setting of 4 (which is supposed to feed 4 lbs./hour) just after 11am the next day, 21 hours and change into one 40 lbs. bag of pellets. View attachment 120581 We probably still have about an hour's worth of pellets here, maybe two hours of pellets at this stove's feed rate.

If it were me (Engineer mentality) I would measure the on time and cycle time for each of the settings. That would tell me if the control is doing anything at all and I could see if the proportions make any sense.
Of course not knowing what the original design Engineers intended would still leave me guessing if a 25% duty cycle should be at the upper end of the scale. I think that is unlikely.

 

[becasunshine]

Excellent points, stoveguy13 and HarveySchneider.

We are involved in a family holiday gathering shortly- but I will investigate your suggestions a little later on today. Both good input- THANK YOU.

 

[becasunshine]

Ok, putting this here quickly to remember it:

Previous 40 lbs. bag of pellets was put into stove, stove started on feed setting 4, at 2pm on Friday, 12/13/13. The stove was run continuously on feed setting 4, and that 40 lbs. bag of pellets was used up (with the exception of a scant handful to keep the auger from emptying completely) at noon on Saturday, 12/14/13. This one bag of pellets burned for 22 hours at feed setting 4. Auger interval: auger turns once every 8 seconds. It turns for 2 seconds, then sits idle for 6 seconds. At the end of the 6 second idle period, it turns again.

At noon on 12/14/13, we refilled the hopper with another 40 lbs. bag of pellets. Feed setting 4.5, the very upper limit of the "acceptable range bracket" that is painted above the numbers on the feed rate dial. This range bracket spans the distance between feed settings 3.5 to 4.5. The auger cycle at this setting appears to be a 7.5 second duration: 2.5 seconds on, followed by a 5 second idle interval, after which the auger turns again.

 

[chken]

Same stove, same 40 lbs. bag of pellets, same feed setting of 4 (which is supposed to feed 4 lbs./hour) just after 11am the next day, 21 hours and change into one 40 lbs. bag of pellets. View attachment 120581 We probably still have about an hour's worth of pellets here, maybe two hours of pellets at this stove's feed rate.

So, it seems like you need to adjust the feed rate up. 2 secs on, 6 off can't be right. Seems like it should be 4 secs on, 4 secs off at setting 4. Can it be adjusted?

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Ok, putting this here quickly to remember it:

Previous 40 lbs. bag of pellets was put into stove, stove started on feed setting 4, at 2pm on Friday, 12/13/13. The stove was run continuously on feed setting 4, and that 40 lbs. bag of pellets was used up (with the exception of a scant handful to keep the auger from emptying completely) at noon on Saturday, 12/14/13. This one bag of pellets burned for 22 hours at feed setting 4. Auger interval: auger turns once every 8 seconds. It turns for 2 seconds, then sits idle for 6 seconds. At the end of the 6 second idle period, it turns again.

At noon on 12/14/13, we refilled the hopper with another 40 lbs. bag of pellets. Feed setting 4.5, the very upper limit of the "acceptable range bracket" that is painted above the numbers on the feed rate dial. This range bracket spans the distance between feed settings 3.5 to 4.5. The auger cycle at this setting appears to be a 7.5 second duration: 2.5 seconds on, followed by a 5 second idle interval, after which the auger turns again.

From the NPS40 users manual:

SYMPTOM
Feed rate dial has
no effect on the fire
(timer control only)

- Secure all connections to the power control module.
- Perform a resistance test to the potentiometer by placing the two test leads from a multi meter into the
leads of the potentiometer. The potentiometer should have a range of 850 KΩ (± 10%).
Potentiometer readings:
Full counter-clockwise (switched off) = open circuit, overload or infinite resistance
Low fire .......... 900 KΩ to 1,050 KΩ
High fire ......... 56 KΩ to 62 KΩ
If the range is not close or does not vary then replace the potentiometer