new stove questions.

[SCOTT S.]

We have a Magnum zc fireplace now it can keep our house at 62 if we feed constantly in below zero temps. Looking for more heat, switching to a stove. Our house is 1875sq.ft. 25'x75', built in 1975, ok insulation, new windows. I live in Wisconsin we had 50 days below zero this year. Here is what I think I know, steel stoves will hold up better with less maintains? Steel stoves are ugly, we have only seen one that the wife didn't hate the buck stove 91 but the cat scares me because she will be home with the stove all day and has the mechanical aptitude of a house plant. If I am misinformed on any of this or any stove suggestions would be great.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Scott. Will the stove be a new install from scratch with a new chimney? If so you might look at a Blaze King King stove. It's a cat stove but its temp is thermostatically regulated and its burn times are long enough that she should never need to touch the stove during the day. With decent wood it should burn at a good output for at least 12 hrs.. During milder weather folks regularly report going 24+ hrs between loadings.

 

[SCOTT S.]

Thanks, begreen That was my first choice but from the better half's reaction I don't think she would let me install it in my neighbors house.

 

[begreen]

LOL I don't think the King Ultra looks worse than the Buck 91. It has pretty clean lines and lacks the mid-waist bulge. Or show her the new BK Ashford in enamel. It is a good looker and very nicely made. You will still get good long burns.

 

[Grisu]

Here is what I think I know, steel stoves will hold up better with less maintains?

Not sure where you got this from but I have never heard here that cast-iron or soapstone stoves are prone to fail earlier than steel stoves. I think it would depend more on the brand and how the stove is treated. They are usually more expensive so when your budget is limited, you will more likely find a steel stove that stays within that limit.

Steel stoves are ugly, we have only seen one that the wife didn't hate the buck stove 91 but the cat scares me because she will be home with the stove all day and has the mechanical aptitude of a house plant. If I am misinformed on any of this or any stove suggestions would be great.

A BlazeKing stove, as BG suggested, is certainly a great choice due to its unsurpassed regulation of the heat it puts out. I would certainly give it some thought. But if you want to go for a non-cat there are plenty of options with a firebox of ~3 cu ft. E.g.:

Pacific Energy Summit (or T6 for the equivalent cast-iron model)
Osburn 2400
Englander NC-30 (the budget choice; you may have taken a look at it already)
Drolet Myriad (another budget choice)
Regency F3100
Lopi Liberty
Quadrafire 5700
Enerzone Solution 2.9

For cast-iron look at the Jotul F600, Hearthstone Manchester, Quadrafire Isle Royale, and Pacific Energy T6, and for soapstone at the Hearthstone Mansfield.

Please be also aware that any of those stoves will require seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20%. If you have not several cords already cut, split and stacked sitting in your yard get that done ASAP and then look for the right stove.

 

[SCOTT S.]

Wow that looks better, I will have her look at it when she gets back. If you were buying now would you buy the Ashford or your pe that looks like a winner also.

 

[SCOTT S.]

Thanks, Grisu I guess it is hard to know where I got that I have been on so many forums, talked to so many dealers in the last month I dream wood stoves my first inclination was to go with the mansfeild but was told buy a dealer their quality of late has not been the best. Also a was told on any cast stove that if your seals go bad you can overfire the stove and then it is junk, and steel stoves handle an overfire much better. That is why I qualified what I said before because I'm not sure any of my information is correct. We have been burning wood in our magnum for 15yrs. and I really thought I new something about burning wood until I started shopping and researching new stoves.

 

[smokedragon]

Pacific Energy Summit (or T6 for the equivalent cast-iron model)
Osburn 2400
Englander NC-30 (the budget choice; you may have taken a look at it already)
Drolet Myriad (another budget choice)
Regency F3100
Lopi Liberty
Quadrafire 5700
Enerzone Solution 2.9
For cast-iron look at the Jotul F600, Hearthstone Manchester, Quadrafire Isle Royale, and Pacific Energy T6, and for soapstone at the Hearthstone Mansfield.

I would like to add to Grisu's list

Jotul F55 is a steel stove without a catalytic converter and it has a lifetime warranty on the secondary combustion system. I went and saw this stove in action, very nice.

Woodstove makes a new steel stove (ideal steel) and a soapstone stove (progress hybrid). Both are quality products and can be purchased directly from them at www.woodstove.com

Also, I haven't seen anyone mention your chimney.......the BK King and the Buck 91 require 8" liners (while every other stove on this list require 6" which is more common and cheaper).

If you are considering a BIG stove, and you like the hearthstone line, you may look at the equinox. It would give you a long enough burn time that your wife shouldn't need to touch it while you are gone (and it's a real looker)

One other thing: If you really like the look of the buck 91, why not purchase a buck 94NC. The 94NC is the same stove, but without a catalytic.

If I didn't already have a 6" liner, the king, the buck 91 and 94nc, and the equinox would be the top of my list.

My $0.02

 

[webby3650]

Thanks, Grisu I guess it is hard to know where I got that I have been on so many forums, talked to so many dealers in the last month I dream wood stoves my first inclination was to go with the mansfeild but was told buy a dealer their quality of late has not been the best. Also a was told on any cast stove that if your seals go bad you can overfire the stove and then it is junk, and steel stoves handle an overfire much better. That is why I qualified what I said before because I'm not sure any of my information is correct. We have been burning wood in our magnum for 15yrs. and I really thought I new something about burning wood until I started shopping and researching new stoves.

I'm not sure why that dealer said that about Hearthstone? If anything, their quality has been improving. I'm guessing that he is just unfamiliar with stone and Iron stoves.
I think the Ashford won't be enough firepower in your climate. The King is what I would go with.

 

[begreen]

Wow that looks better, I will have her look at it when she gets back. If you were buying now would you buy the Ashford or your pe that looks like a winner also.

Both the Alderlea T6 and the Ashford have their strong points. I can only comment on the Alderlea as I haven't had the opportunity to try an Ashford yet. It is a new model. The Alderlea is a pussycat to run. My wife has no problems working the stove though she tends to just add a few logs on the coal bed while I will pack the stove full on a reload.

 

[Grisu]

Wow that looks better, I will have her look at it when she gets back. If you were buying now would you buy the Ashford or your pe that looks like a winner also.

Maybe have first your wife decide which ones are acceptable and then you can discuss here the pros and cons of each stove in question. FWIW, I don't think you will go wrong with either stove but you have to decide whether you want to go for the cat or non-cat stove. Regarding the correct sizing, what else are you using for heat and how much fuel do you use?

 

[SCOTT S.]

Thanks for all the reply's, have a propane furnace and have used about 50 gal. since Jan 1 but this includes hot water. Granted we have payed a price for this it has been a cold winter at our place, But propane was 5.50 a gal when we got 200 gal in Jan so we didn't have much of a choice. I think you are right about finding a stove my wife likes and fits our needs then coming here for more info. One more question it seems like the btu rating of wood stoves are skewed, some manufactures big stoves are rated for 30k while others are 80k what gives, and how do you compare? I defiantly don't want to undersize and be cold again next year.

 

[begreen]

Some stove makers report EPA testing BTU output, some report peak output, some report both.

 

[Grisu]

Thanks for all the reply's, have a propane furnace and have used about 50 gal. since Jan 1 but this includes hot water. Granted we have payed a price for this it has been a cold winter at our place, But propane was 5.50 a gal when we got 200 gal in Jan so we didn't have much of a choice. I think you are right about finding a stove my wife likes and fits our needs then coming here for more info. One more question it seems like the btu rating of wood stoves are skewed, some manufactures big stoves are rated for 30k while others are 80k what gives, and how do you compare? I defiantly don't want to undersize and be cold again next year.

Only 50 gl of propane since the beginning of the year? How much wood did you burn in that fireplace? Doing some rough calculations:

You heated for about 80 days with 50 gl of propane. Let's say 40 gl for heating (10 for DHW), that's half gallon propane per day or ~50,000 BTu per day. That is only 2000 BTU per hour!
A cord of average hardwood (e. g. ash) has ~ 20 million BTU or roughly 150,000 BTU per cu ft. If you burn that in a 50% efficient stove you get 75,000 BTU during the burn cycle, easily surpassing the amount of propane you used with just one load per day.

Thus, do you maybe have some numbers of winters when you used the fireplace less or just to make sure the 50 gl figure is correct? Also, do you have some more info about that fireplace? It sounds like it is burning way more efficient than a standard ZC fireplace.

 

[SCOTT S.]

Well maybe I am off base but we had 20% in our 1000 gal tank when we got our delivery of 200 gal our tank then read 40% checked last Friday and was at 35%. Since we got the propane our thermostat was set at 58. And we have run the fireplace 24-7 since. As far as how much wood we have used I think it was somewhere around a metric buttload but not sure. I had what I thought was about 2 years worth in my main stack and its almost gone. But I have never really measured my piles so it not worth guessing. When our zc was put in in 97 I was told it was one of the best on the market idk, definitely not a builder box though. we probably get 4-5 hrs a load of usable heat. firebox is 22" by 17". A few years back I had a back injury and we burned almost no wood. we went through 1200 gal of propane and it was a balmy 72 in the house including the basement but propane was a buck something a gal so really wasn't a huge deal.

 

[Grisu]

1200 gl of propane sounds more like it. Let's say you used 300 gl in the coldest month, that would be 10 gl per day or 900,000 BTU. If you get conservatively 100,000 BTU out of 1 cu ft of wood, you would need 9 cu ft per day. At 3 loads that would be 3 cu ft per load. Thus, the stoves I mentioned seem to be about the right size. Are you planning to put the stove in the basement or would you only heat the upstairs? How many sqft are there?

 

[SCOTT S.]

Im thinking i'll just be able to do the upstairs since the basement is only partially insulated the upstairs is 1875 sq ft,. So if the Ashford is rated for 2400 sq ft wouldn't that be big enough or do I need to look biger because of climate.

 

[Grisu]

Im thinking i'll just be able to do the upstairs since the basement is only partially insulated the upstairs is 1875 sq ft,. So if the Ashford is rated for 2400 sq ft wouldn't that be big enough or do I need to look biger because of climate.

It is a bit hard to say but since you could heat your home this winter with the fireplace and just 50 gl of propane, I would assume the Ashford is enough. The 1200 gl figure from another winter for heating the whole house (including the basement) would suggest the same. The question is also how determined you are to only use the woodstove for heating. I have no problems to turn in the furnace a bit when the temps drop below 0 F and our insert starts struggling. We still use only a fraction of NG than what we would do without the stove.

If you want to be on the save side look for a stove with a firebox above 3 cu ft although you may soon come into an 8-inch flue requirement. The Woodstock Ideal Steel is a Hybrid stove (secondary combustion and catalyst) with a 3.2 cu ft firebox and only needs a 6" pipe.

 

[begreen]

If you are going to heat from the basement in a very cold climate, insulating the basement walls, sills and rim joist area would be the best bet. If you want a stove much larger than about 3.4 cu ft it will probably need an 8" chimney. Another alternative might be to have a stove on each floor and to heat primarily with the basement stove until it gets very cold. Then use the upper stove to supplement. An alternative would be to install an efficient wood furnace.

 

[SCOTT S.]

Was not going to try heating basement. I don't mind burning some prop. if I can buy in the summer when its cheap. We had the local hearth shop come out today and told us the guy who installed our magnum is a complete knob. the flashing on the roof is backwards, no firestop and the strapping wasn't right. that's more than a little scary. He didn't sell it but he said he has several customers that heat there homes with this same fireplace. Do you think a firestop may help it to heat better as there is a hole where the chimney goes though in the attic allowing cold air to come down and surround the fireplace? anyway they are going to get me an estimate on fixing the old one and one to install a woodstove of my choice.

 

[begreen]

Wow we are hearing too many bad installation stories lately. Good to hear you are working on getting things fixed. The firestop should help, cold air infiltration can really kill heating performance.

The Ashford, it should be able to heat the main floor ok if the house is reasonably tight and well insulated.