New Stove time... VC Defiant... Jotul 500... quality concerns?

[ajspence]

Hi all,

We had and loved a VC Defiant cat in our old house 1988-present. Other than replacing the cat once, it served us well for 20 seasons. We are preparing to have a wood stove installed in our new place, and we love the top loading feature of the VC (would likely go with Non-cat this time?), that is really the only reason we prefer it over the Jotul. Ease of loading, more capacity in the firebox. Our dealer has some reservations about the quality/stability of VC, as has been discussed here and elsewhere. He handles Jotul, and feels more comfortable with them.

I've searched and read this forum and elsewhere for discussion about VC stoves, quality, etc. Though positive reviews of the VC have been sparse, there are a few out there. I've seen comments that the VC quality has recovered some from the late 90's early 2000's low point.

Has anyone heard that the VC quality is improving? Are we totally crazy to be looking at VC, mainly because of the top loading feature?

Thanks for any input you may share.

-A

 

[begreen]

For a large top loader, have you looked at the Quadrafire Isle Royale? It is a good looking, non-cat, 3 cu ft stove.

FWIW, although I had a VC top loader and loved it too, what I really like is a stove that is simple and I don't have to feed it very often. Then top, side, front loading becomes less of an issue. A large Jotul or our current Alderlea fit the bill. Just one man's opinion.

 

[firefighterjake]

The fact that you're here and are doing some research bodes well for you. If there is any good advice that I can give you it would be to play the law of averages . . . check out the recent reviews on the makes and models of stoves you are interested in (and don't limit yourself to just a few brands) and do a search to find any potential issues with the various makes and models (even the best stove manufacturers have stoves that are not popular . . . or they have models with little quirks) . . . and then after you've read the threads extolling the virtues of a particular make and model . . . or have read the threads bashing a particular make and model make your decision . . . being aware that we all have built-in biases (since we all have varying levels of experience with different stoves.)

That said, I would really, really encourage you to do a search for Vermont Castings on this forum and then re-think your choices. VC is not the same stove company (literally) that you remember from a few decades ago . . . and it seems according to some rather lengthy posts that there are some real concerns with this company. The fact that your dealer has apparently tried to steer you to the Jotul line is very telling . . . if you press him or her I am sure they would sell you a VC, but it really sounds as though they're trying to tell you as gently as they can that they have some major concerns with VC as well.

There are many, many great stove companies out there. For me picking just one stove was difficult . . . there are so many other great looking stoves out there . . . but one can only truly use just one (maybe two) stoves at a time. What I'm trying to say here is that you should pick out the features that truly matter to you . . . and see if there are any other makes/models that have similar features.

Also . . . you're not totally crazy . . . at least not yet . . . but if you start burning wood again and hang out here for long you will be in short order.

Finally, welcome to hearth.com.

 

[ansehnlich1]

I had a Defiant top load catalytic. It was a nice stove, HOWEVER, I only burned it for 1 season, sold it with the house.

I went out and bought a Jotul Oslo. It's a side load. It's definitely NOT as nice as top load, but I've gotten used to it. I have a nice little stool sittin' next to the hearth, open the side door, slide 4 or 5 splits in there, close her up, and get on with life.

I'd surely look at the Isle Royale if I had it to do over again. I think the Isle Royale, when you open the top, the burn tubes pivot out of the way, opening up the stove cavity for filling with wood, for some reason I didn't like that.

So, I went with Jotul, non catalytic, cast iron.... nice stove.

I may have done better with the F600, bigger firebox, but the Oslo heats our home just fine.

 

[paulie]

Well said FFJake, find what you like, what looks nice to you, and what will serve your purpose and compare several makers. I personaly feel that if you already have search VC and you are finding more negetive than positive reviews....well that would probably stear me away from them. thats how I think any how, top load, side,front, back, underneath, doesn't really matter you will get use to any of them. and yes....do watch that crazy thing it will sneak up on you. but don't worry most of us make the transition smoothly

 

[ilmbg]

It might not matter at all, but it seems that a top loader would be difficult to add wood to, as the heat of the current fire would make it hard to place the logs carefully?? Wouldn't the smoke go into your face and the room while you had the top open? I have been thinking about this while I'm looking at different brands.
Am I wrong?

 

[begreen]

If a top loader has decent draft, this is not an issue. There's a bypass that one opens first. The draft sucks up the smoke and there is actually a slight negative pressure at the stove top opening. However, burns on one's hands and arms are possible. Leather gloves and a good poker are advisable.

 

[ilmbg]

I see. Thanks

 

[Heat Miser]

I owned a 2005 VC Defiant Catalytic for about three seasons. Yes, the top loading feature is nice. It was easy to pack the firebox full and had less ash mess than a front/side loader in my opinion.

However, the rest of the stove was not well made. Knobs fell off/broke. Refractory cracked. The fit of the doors was poor. Etc. I began to not trust the stove that I was using as a 24/7 burner. I sold the stove last year to a local dealer who was going to part it out and bought my current soapstone stove. My new stove is much better made and burns far better than my old stove ever did. I also trust this stove which is important when you're running 24/7.

So no I wouldn't buy a VC stove until I was certain they were back on their feet. There are plenty of other companies out there making good quality products. And, for what it's worth, the front loading stove I have now can be loaded with just as much wood as my top loader and the non-catalytic system works far better than the catalytic VC stove in my opinion. It lights faster and burns more consistently. IMO.

 

[mato]

For a large top loader, have you looked at the Quadrafire Isle Royale? It is a good looking, non-cat, 3 cu ft stove.

FWIW, although I had a VC top loader and loved it too, what I really like is a stove that is simple and I don't have to feed it very often. Then top, side, front loading becomes less of an issue. A large Jotul or our current Alderlea fit the bill. Just one man's opinion.

I have an Alderlea that has been here driving me mad for a year. Dealer is refusing to admit it is a faulty stove. There is no air control at all. I can only control it but the amount of wood I put in it... had it checked out by an experienced sweep, who sells stoves. He said he would not load it and dare go to bed. It has run away several times, so hot that I had to put metal against the wall to protect it. It is a real problem. Dealer has been out here many times, blaming my house for being too dry, the wood wrong... on and on. I burned a VC on that chimney for 20 years, been burning wood for over 30. No other stove was this horrid. I truly fear it and am about to talk to a lawyer and buy a new stove. Dealer told me he dose not intend to loose any money on this stove, yet I could have lost my home with it, several times.

The company did not return my calls, when they finally did, referred me to a distributor who referred me back to the dealer. They will not even consider that this monster is defective. I say to anyone choosing to buy Pacific Energy.... beware! You may be very sorry. This stove could threaten your life.

Mato

 

[begreen]

Welcome mato. Which size Alderlea is this? Have they checked the air control linkage to make sure it is working?

 

[BrotherBart]

However, the rest of the stove was not well made. Knobs fell off/broke. Refractory cracked. The fit of the doors was poor. Etc. I began to not trust the stove that I was using as a 24/7 burner. I sold the stove last year to a local dealer who was going to part it out and bought my current soapstone stove.

I seriously question why anybody would buy a stove these days with cast refractory anything in it. There are just too many good stoves out there without that delicate crumbling crap in them. I have a couple of baffle boards with questionable life but at least they slip in and out of the stove in five minutes for around a hundred bucks for both.

 

[BrotherBart]

Welcome mato. Which size Alderlea is this? Have they checked the air control linkage to make sure it is working?

If it is a T-6 it sounds like the EBT is stuck wide open to me.

 

[Heat Miser]

However, the rest of the stove was not well made. Knobs fell off/broke. Refractory cracked. The fit of the doors was poor. Etc. I began to not trust the stove that I was using as a 24/7 burner. I sold the stove last year to a local dealer who was going to part it out and bought my current soapstone stove.

I seriously question why anybody would buy a stove these days with cast refractory anything in it. There are just too many good stoves out there without that delicate crumbling crap in them. I have a couple of baffle boards with questionable life but at least they slip in and out of the stove in five minutes for around a hundred bucks for both.

Actually it was the refractory board that surrounded the catalytic element (Looked like Kaowool Board). It wasn't cast refractory. The sides of the box that held the element were cracked and it was all hidden behind the cast iron back board from view. The VC tech thought it probably happened during shipping as the element was intact. They sent a replacement, but it was a major hassle taking the stove apart to replace it.

I learned two lessons from this (it was my first stove):

1) Don't buy based on past reputation. See what people are saying about the stoves now.
2) Don't buy a catalytic element stove. My non-cat stove is just as hot, burns just as long, and is a lot less finicky about operation and start-up. I know this could start a religious war, but this is just how I feel now that I've used both cat and non-cat stoves for 24/7 heating.

 

[johnnywarm]

[quote author="BrotherBart" date="1224915035
I seriously question why anybody would buy a stove these days with cast refractory anything in it. There are just too many good stoves out there without that delicate crumbling crap in them. I have a couple of baffle boards with questionable life but at least they slip in and out of the stove in five minutes for around a hundred bucks for both.[/quote]


BB is my F400 "cast refactory"????? so far i love the stove it heats very well.

 

[BrotherBart]

BB is my F400 "cast refactory"????? so far i love the stove it heats very well.

Nope. Your stove is cast "iron". Refractory is molded high temperature masonry material used inside some stoves.

 

[johnnywarm]

BB is my F400 "cast refactory"????? so far i love the stove it heats very well.

Nope. Your stove is cast "iron". Refractory is molded high temperature masonry material used inside some stoves.

Is this material used in stoves that are of a lesser Quality????

 

[begreen]

Welcome mato. Which size Alderlea is this? Have they checked the air control linkage to make sure it is working?

If it is a T-6 it sounds like the EBT is stuck wide open to me.

My thought too.

 

[ajspence]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Our dealer has a great reputation and has assured me that he will support whichever stove we choose. He has had no direct issues with any VC stoves he has sold/installed, just wanted me to be aware of the recent upheavals with the company.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

AJS

 

[bbc557ci]

Welcome mato. Which size Alderlea is this? Have they checked the air control linkage to make sure it is working?

If it is a T-6 it sounds like the EBT is stuck wide open to me.

My thought too.

He might also want to check the door/lever for the ash pan dump to make sure that's closed all the way.

 

[Dill]

I think top loaders are way way easier. Open top drop in wood, close top.
Much easier than side loading.
Harman makes a couple top loaders, the TL 300 and the Oakwood.
Woodstock stoves makes some as well, and since you comfortable with a cat, (I wasn't), look into them.