Newbie needs help with non-flush wood insert

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Veneer could be an option. I was really hoping to have the end result be a flush insert, which would have the look that we were hoping for.

There was a full brick veneer on our fireplace on ours to start, and without it, our insert would stick out exactly like yours, for exactly the same reason. Because of the veneer, our insert is flush.

I've often considered removing the veneer, because I want a few inches sticking out for more effective heating.

Wanna trade? ;-)

 

[Jgaloski]

Haha, swap it up. I wouldn't want to bump out with a veneer because then the hearth ends up being to small. I'm in touch with the dealer and they are trying to contact the installer on their end. They seem willing to work with me on a solution, which is reassuring to hear.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Haha, swap it up. I wouldn't want to bump out with a veneer because then the hearth ends up being to small. I'm in touch with the dealer and they are trying to contact the installer on their end. They seem willing to work with me on a solution, which is reassuring to hear.

Good, I hope they get it worked out for you, it's a sharp looking setup. Until then, just don't look at it from the side, that first picture directly in front, can't even tell it's not flush.

BTW, your comment about the hearth applied here, too. I just put a piece of cement board down, but eventually have to do some surgery to the floor to extend the hearth, more permanent-like. Few things end up being easy around here...

 

[Jgaloski]

Isn't that the truth. One project opens up a door to 3 new ones. The joys of home ownership. Yes, the straight on shot makes me want to just accept it as is, but then I walk past it and hate the look.

 

[Mike508]

Just as an aside, the unit should perform better (more heat will be transferred to the room) with it sticking out. Many inserts have the ability to "slide" out to allow for this problem (look at the Jotul 450 or the Vermont Casting Montpelier, both have two different installation options-flush vs sticking out, but in both cases the surround will mount flush to the fireplace and give a "finished" look). I would talk to the dealer about your options. Since the unit is still new they should allow you to exchange it for a unit that fits or allow you the option of seeing how it would look with a fabricated enclosure.

I really feel for you and believe the dealer should accommodate an exchange for another insert that fits. I would not allow anyone to remove brick as it could violate code issues and could open a whole new set of problems.

 

[Jgaloski]

Thanks for all of the help so far everyone. Mike, I have been looking at the Jotul 450 and 350 in case a swap is needed. I've noticed that the Jotul's only seem to go back 16inches and the flue is straight out of the top instead of angled towards the back like the current Grand Voyager. It's too bad because I do love the performance and look of the Grand Voyager, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

 

[begreen]

Paid by check

What does the dealer say? Will they go to bat for you?

Time for some accurate measuring and checking as to what the obstructions are. Is it just the back wall of the fireplace or is it also the liner angle tying into the flue collar? In other words, if the upper rear corner bricks were ground out 3" would the liner still make the connection?

 

[Jgaloski]

The dealer has been super responsive. They have put in a call with the installer to see exactly what the issue is. They have also stated that if there needs to be an exchange it is not a big deal. Both aspects have really impressed me. The more I'm looking at it the more it seems to be the liner angle. The unit could still clearly be pushed back more, but with the grand voyager having the flue on the back portion and sort of angled towards the back it makes the liner connection that much more difficult. I've been looking at the Jotul 450 which has a connection right on top and the connection appears to be 9.5 inches back, which is where the current connection is being made.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the Voyageur has a 30º back slope where the flue connects. I can see how that would complicate installation in this case. There is an optional flue adapter for this insert, but I'm not sure how well that would help without seeing how tight things are. I can see how the Jotul C450 might be a better fit. It's depth is adjustable. Is Jotul the only other brand the dealer sells?

 

[Jgaloski]

Jotul, Osburn, hearthstone, blaze king, quadrifire all carried by the dealer. The more I look at the situation I'm noticing that the height and depth of the unit are not issues, it is really the angle needed for the flue connection. That is where the brick arch prevents the unit from being pushed all the way back.

 

[begreen]

If adapter fixes the problem that would be great. If necessary they can grind back the brick a bit for clearance. Have the dealer order it and set up the appt. with a more responsible installer. There should be no charge except for the parts needed.

 

[Jgaloski]

Thanks. That might be an option. I've added another picture showing that there is a good 4 inches the insert can go back

 

[Mark8]

Thanks. That might be an option. I've added another picture showing that there is a good 4 inches the insert can go back

Yea, but 4" is not 5" Are you looking for flush or almost flush?

I've worked in a lot of trades installing equipment and usually when we are talking about high dollar items the company always goes to the customers house and does all the measuring so these kinds of things don't happen.

@begreen Is this not true for fireplace dealers and this trade?

 

[Jgaloski]

You are right. "Good enough" is not the same as "good". Either way the grand voyager flue is 14 inches from the front, so fixes still won't get it to flush.

 

[Mark8]

Here is a question for the forum members, why do manufacturers of insert give this warning

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Jotul, Osburn, hearthstone, blaze king, quadrifire all carried by the dealer. The more I look at the situation I'm noticing that the height and depth of the unit are not issues, it is really the angle needed for the flue connection. That is where the brick arch prevents the unit from being pushed all the way back.

It'd be great news if the right adapter fixed this for you. If I'd have had the right one, my install would have gone so much easier and it would have landed right where I wanted it. Still planning on trying one in the future, but I'm in no hurry to pull everything apart and make all the round trips up to the roof.

 

[Jgaloski]

Yea, but 4" is not 5" Are you looking for flush or almost flush?

I've worked in a lot of trades installing equipment and usually when we are talking about high dollar items the company always goes to the customers house and does all the measuring so these kinds of things don't happen.

@begreen Is this not true for fireplace dealers and this trade?

Mark. You are right. I'm looking for flush. We came into this looking for flush. The only thing that has me waivering is how much I love the look of the voyager. Really a beautiful unit. Exactly what we were looking for. Large firebox, full glass, etc. In the end though it is more important to have the flush look

 

[Jgaloski]

It'd be great news if the right adapter fixed this for you. If I'd have had the right one, my install would have gone so much easier and it would have landed right where I wanted it. Still planning on trying one in the future, but I'm in no hurry to pull everything apart and make all the round trips up to the roof.

Ed, do you have a picture of what yours looks like? We are having trouble envisioning the finished look before making a definite decision

 

[begreen]

Mark. You are right. I'm looking for flush. We came into this looking for flush. The only thing that has me waivering is how much I love the look of the voyager. Really a beautiful unit. Exactly what we were looking for. Large firebox, full glass, etc. In the end though it is more important to have the flush look

If you need the capacity then I would stick with the Voyageur. It sounds like the flue adapter will get it close. It's pretty common to add a 1" filler to a surround and pretty easy for a competent installer. When it is done most people would not even notice it. However, if shaving a bit of brick makes for a completely flush fit then that's what I'd do.

 

[Jgaloski]

Can anyone provide a picture of what a filler, even a small amount would look like on a finished install. Also, if I'm researching correctly the grand voyager has a 2.35 firebox and jotul 450 has a 2.1 firebox. Biggest difference would be viewing size of glass between the two.

 

[begreen]

@webby3650 might have a picture? It's normally painted black so that it looks like a little thicker surround.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Ed, do you have a picture of what yours looks like? We are having trouble envisioning the finished look before making a definite decision

I'll attached one for you, but probably not a great reference for your purposes, as I've left the surround off and it's a much different insert. Looks like a stove without legs sitting in the fireplace. I really like it, but for someone looking for a flush job and a finished look, sort of apples to bananas.

 

[Mark8]

Mark. You are right. I'm looking for flush. We came into this looking for flush. The only thing that has me waivering is how much I love the look of the voyager. Really a beautiful unit. Exactly what we were looking for. Large firebox, full glass, etc. In the end though it is more important to have the flush look

With it sticking out that far and you being able to see the shiny sheet metal it looks bad, but you might surprise yourself when it has a black trim piece on and is not such an eye catcher. Why don't you get three pieces of cardboard and some black duct tape at the hardware store and make a mock shroud, that might help you get a frame of reference of how it might look, and if your able to get the insert back further the shroud will be narrower.

The other thing you need to consider is finding someone who can make the shroud so it will look good and not end up like some hack job.

 

[kennyp2339]

Here is a question for the forum members, why do manufacturers of insert give this warning

View attachment 223162

Its took keep non certified people / liability from dangerously changing the r-value characteristics of the fire place, 8" of solid masonry is needed between the fireplace fire box and anything combustible like wall studs. Plus the inserts are not UL tested for side and rear clearances because they should be installed in a approved masonry fireplace.

 

[Mark8]

Its took keep non certified people / liability from dangerously changing the r-value characteristics of the fire place, 8" of solid masonry is needed between the fireplace fire box and anything combustible like wall studs. Plus the inserts are not UL tested for side and rear clearances because they should be installed in a approved masonry fireplace.

So if you know what the construction is and you know how to remove the bricks without changing the R value then you can alter the fireplace, because the guys who installed my liner jackhammered a few bricks to install it.

I also wonder how you can tell if the brickwork has wood studs behind it, like my hearth, is that solid bricks or bricks over framing.