Odd Alcove – Advice Needed!

[spendaviscpa]

Hello Hearth.com members! I’ve been a long time reader of this site. I finally registered a few years ago. However, I don’t post very much, I just like to read.

It looks like we are finally realizing our goal of moving out of town and onto some acreage with a little space. The house we are buying was built in 1985 and has an odd alcove for a wood stove. The house is a foreclosure and the previous owners took the stove. Before I dive into describing the situation too much, let me say we are evaluation all options with regard to wood heat. I know this is not the ideal spot for the stove, but I’d like to evaluate it as an option and that is why I am here.
I’ve attached some pictures and a drawing with dimensions of the alcove. It’s tucked under the stairs. The pipe vents out the back and up the exterior of the house. Is this even code to place a wood stove under the stairs? Of course I am concerned about clearances, mostly the top clearance. I know I’m severely limited in stove options with the rear vent. I’ve been looking at the Jotul F-600 manual. Side and rear clearances look good. On page 7 of the manual, it states, “Minimum ceiling height in an unprotected installation, off the top of the stove is 48”(1220mm). The minimum ceiling height
off the top of the stove in a protected ceiling installation is 15”(380mm).

Based on this it appears I could make it work as long as I have a “Protected” ceiling. So my main question, what do they mean by “Protected?” Do I need a 1 inch air gap. The manual is not clear to me.

I’d appreciate any thoughts you have about this type of installation and other stoves that potentially could work here. We are not sure we want the stove to go here and are evaluating all options, including moving the stove to another location. Some info about the house; Slab foundation, 2000 SF, 2 story with living room having high ceilings, average insulation, and windows from 1985. Mild climate and a wife who is always cold!

I have been burning in an EPA stove for 6+ years and have plenty of dry seasoned wood.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments.

Spencer

P.S. In the picture, there a door leaning in the alcove. This does not go there. It goes to a bedroom up stairs!

 

[begreen]

What is the height at the top of the thimble's pipe connection? Based on the pictures it looks like there is potential for problems with the thimble height being too low for many stoves including the F600. The stove needs at least 48" clear on the top, but a ceiling shield help with that a lot. A big issue might be the side-loading door. It's supposed to be locked shut for alcove installations.

 

[spendaviscpa]

Thanks for the reply! I’ll have to get that measurement tomorrow when I am over there for other inspections. I plan to rip out and redo the rock. If it is an issue, I could move the pipe up higher. I don’t see that as a deal killer. I’m more concerned with the ceiling height and getting it protected. What type of ceiling shield would I use/make? Is this the 1 inch ventilated air gap?

I did see in the manual where the side door had to be locked. Is loading from the front a big issue? What other stoves might work here. I’ll keep looking!

Thanks

 

[begreen]

In a mild climate like north CA I think a smaller stove in the 2 cu ft range might do fine. Is the area open to the rest of the house? From the picture it looks like a lot of heat is going to head straight upstairs. Before making suggestions, one more question - is there an aesthetics committee that will ban any straight steel box from this location?

 

[spendaviscpa]

The heat will head straight up. This is in the living room and it is open to the up stairs. I’m guessing 17 to 20 foot ceiling. I’d prefer a steel stove. I don’t know of any steel, rear exit stoves. If I move the pipe higher and can maintain proper clearances, then a steel, top exit stove might work. If we move the stove, I was looking at getting an Englander. I’d just like to evaluate all the options. I’m a little nervous about having the stove under the stairs.

 

[fossil]

Looks to me like a better place for a closet than a woodstove...any other options available? Rick

 

[spendaviscpa]

Rick, I agree. It could potentially be moved to the dining room. My wife kind of frowned on that idea. Once we get moved in and settled we’ll have a better idea of the space and how much room we have. I can see it but she can’t. I thought I’d get a jump start and see what you guys thought about where the previous owners had the stove and what I could do to work with in the requirements of the COC’s. I did get to see a picture from about 7 years ago when the house was for sale. It had a smoke dragon sitting on the floor with no legs. I’m thinking that is why the pipe is so low. Thanks!

 

[fossil]

...It had a smoke dragon sitting on the floor with no legs...

:ahhh: I'm surprised that house is still there. Rick

 

[spendaviscpa]

I would hate to jump to conclusions. It looked like an old smoke dragon that I see people on here asking about. Luckily, the house has a slab foundation. That might be the only thing that saved it!

 

[Todd]

I’d prefer a steel stove. I don’t know of any steel, rear exit stoves.

Here is the only rear exit steel stove I know of.

http://www.buckstove.com/wood/model261.html#

 

[spendaviscpa]

Todd – I like the look of that stove. I noticed in the manual that the minimum ceiling height is 84 inches. That’s a deal killer in this spot. I will keep this stove in mind if I do decide to move the placement to a different location. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[tiber]

All the vermont castings are rear exit with the "reversable flue collar" BUT it still comes out at the top of the stove. You'd have to buy the short leg kit and muck with it.

 

[begreen]

Maybe it's best to wait until you are in the house and have a chance to meditate on this a bit. The current location is not ideal. Once you are in the house, mock up some cardboard for a hearth and a box to represent the stove and move it around. If possible, find a central location where the flue can go up inside the house. But if not, so be it. The existing pipe can be relocated as long as it is still in good condition. So put the stove where it is going to be appreciated the most on a cold night. And do start showing your wife some pictures. There may need to be some compromising going on here.

 

[firefighterjake]

Hmmm . . . Definitely not the best location . . . and whether it's legal or not I wouldn't be overly happy with pipe running under the stairs like that . . . looks too much like the installs we used to see around here by folks who had half a clue about what they were doing.

There's lots of good advice here . . . and it's free . . . and one of the best bits of advice I had was to install your woodstove where you plan to spend most of your time in the home . . . which is typically in a family room or living room . . . while it may take up some floor space with the hearth the reward is lots of heat in the dead of winter and a treat for the senses in terms of the light show, smell of simmering potpourri and the sound of a crackling fire . . . and honestly a decent hearth and a pretty stove really can make a room look quite nice. Me . . . I would take BeGreen's advice and wait until the move . . . and then start figuring out where a good location might be . . . and start showing your wife some of those really pretty looking stoves.

 

[humpin iron]

How about in the corner in front of the stairs, vent straight up through roof and use alcove for wood storage. Too many unknowns about existing alcove to trust there were not compromises to combustibles over the years...............just my 2 cents.

 

[spendaviscpa]

All good comments above! Thank you! I spent most of yesterday at the house doing my inspections. The vent pipe is 26 inches off the floor to the top. I’ve come to the realization that no matter what install I go with, I’ll need to do some serious rearranging. I’ve attached a down stairs floor plan and a few more pictures. The living room is a little on the narrow side. I’ve identified 3 different locations for the stove. They all have their pros and cons. I also attached a picture of the outside as well to show you the roof line, which causes complications on potential stove placements.

I think we like #3 the best as far as looks. #2 probably has the best heat distribution. #1 may not work because the 2nd floor over hangs by about 1 foot. It may look really odd in a corner install.

Moving the stove to a new location has many upsides. The biggest being a safe install. Another benefit is having a wide variety of stoves to choose from (not just a rear exit jotul!) I’m pretty sure I’m a steel stove type of guy!

We are definitely waiting until we move in to make any decision. Using mocked up cardboard cut outs will provide us with the best understanding of the space with our furniture and house configuration.

Thanks again for all your comments and advice.

 

[fossil]

...We are definitely waiting until we move in to make any decision. Using mocked up cardboard cut outs will provide us with the best understanding of the space with our furniture and house configuration...

Excellent. You got them wheels a-turnin' up there now...keep it up. When you're considering stove locations, keep in mind that the outside chimney is simpler (and cheaper) the closer to the peak (ridge line) you penetrate the roof. Inside pipe (stovepipe, or connector pipe) is a good deal cheaper than the Class A chimney to which you must transition at the penetration. There are requirements for the chimney height, as well, which (especially on a fairly steep roof like yours) will mean a lot of chimney sticking up there, possibly requiring bracing, the farther down from the peak you penetrate. Looks to me as though this consideration would favor spot 2 or spot 3, as being closer to the centerline of the roof. Rick

OOPS! Meant to say it would favor spot 1 or spot 2 over spot 3. You know what I'm gettin' at, though, I'm sure.

 

[begreen]

Now yer cooking. Take your time and play around with the stove mockup. That will really help in visualization and making the best decision.

How far is the ceiling open to the second floor? Locations 1 & 3 could lead to some overheating upstairs. In the least a ceiling fan would be needed to break up the heat that will stratify up there. For that reason, I'd be more interested in option 2. What is directly above that location?

 

[spendaviscpa]

BeGreen – There is loft area directly above #2. It would be fairly easy to build a chase around the Class A pipe. Also, it would not look intrusive either. Dining room has an open beam celing with loft above.

Rick – I plan to get on the roof and take some measurements to see. I want to get an idea how tall the pipe would go up. That way I can get an idea of how “obnoxious” it might look!

We love wood heat. I could not imagine living with out it. We’ll find a way to make it work safely. I’ve even considered moving the stairs to another location. It’s just going to take some time, thinking, and compromising!

 

[firefighterjake]

Spendavsicpa . . . now you're cooking with wood . . . coming up with ideas, using mock-ups . . . really thinking and planning this out and figuring out all the angles.

As others have mentioned the three locations all offer some pros- and cons.

Location 1: A corner install here could look quite nice and it would make some sense to have the stove right in the living room where you will stay most of the time and you could do a straight shot to the roof . . . but getting the heat around the corner and down the hall to the master bedroom could be a challenge and as BG mentioned the 2nd floor with this location could get mighty warm. Another problem as you mentioned is the jutting 2nd floor which may mean taking up more valuable floor space from what you say is an already small living room.

Location 2: This location offers a couple of pluses . . . you may be able to get more of the heat down into the master bedroom and the first floor . . . and as Fossil mentioned with this location you could easily do an "out and up" install with the flue going out the wall and then up the side (and you could either build a nice chase around this or leave it as is depending on how you feel it looks) . . . besides being easier to do and not having to worry about going through rafters and cutting a hole in your roof you can put a T on the flue and be able to inspect and clean your chimney quickly and easily from the ground. The disadvantage here as I see it is that it would be in your dining room . . . a bit further from the living room where you will no doubt be spending the bulk of your time.

Location 3: Much like Location 1 this offers a good spot for the stove as it is in the living space you will spend most of your time and again you could do a nice straight shot up through the roof . . . but again getting the heat around the corner to the master bedroom might be a challenge and as mentioned with the roof line you may end up with a rather tall chimney outside to meet code and obtain a good draft.

There are a bunch of pros- and cons- to weigh here . . . I think using a cardboard cut-out of the stove (and hearth size) is a good idea . . . it will give you an idea of how much floor space will be taken up and what things will look like . . . after that it's a matter of deciding what you want more. If having a view of the fire is important than Location 1 or 3 would be a good option . . . if moving heat to the master bedroom is important than Location 2 . . . if being able to do a quick and easy clean out is important Location 2 wins . . . if having more heat in the living room is important than Location 1 or 3 . . . in the end it will be up to you and your wife to make the final decision.

 

[begreen]

Average temps in Northern Calif. are relatively mild, even in January. Unless this is up in the mountains, I suspect the biggest issue is going to be avoiding overheating, especially in the loft area. Running the flue straight up is a good plan in this circumstance. At 40-50 °F you'll want a strong drafting flue system.

How is the wood supply there? Having dry wood to burn makes a big difference in performance in modern stoves. You might want to have some seasoned wood delivered when the furniture gets moved in.

 

[spendaviscpa]

Jake/BeGreen – Thanks for the well thought out analysis. In the winter, 40-50 degrees is usually our high with the lows in the 30’s. I live about half way between Sacramento and the Oregon Border. Definitely mild winters, but I do have a cold blooded wife who likes to be warm, very warm. We have plenty of dry seasoned wood. We have lots of Oak in this area and I cut my own wood. My current house has an EPA insert that I put in about 6 years ago. I completely understand the need for dry/seasoned wood. I’ve been fairly lucky in the fact I’ve never had any draft issues on the mild days. I read on here often about those draft issues. I’ve just never experienced it yet. I think I have my wife leaning towards spot #2. Until we move in and get settled, we won’t make any decisions. Card board mock ups will be in our future!

Thanks again for everyone’s comment. I’ll keep everyone up to date as this project progresses!

 

[fossil]

...as Fossil mentioned with this location you could easily do an "out and up" install with the flue going out the wall and then up the side...

Wasn't me...I'm not a fan of that configuration unless it simply can't be avoided. I'm a fan of straight up from the stove to daylight if at all possible, or maybe a couple of 45°'s. Anything else just tends to restrict draft and make cleaning the flue more tedious. Rick

 

[spendaviscpa]

I don’t like out and up either. All 3 scenarios allow for a straight up flue off the stove. Location #2 would need a chase built around it in the loft area. No big deal though!

 

[begreen]

I'm guessing that in position #2 that the best way to install it would be with a cathedral ceiling support box. Normally there is only a little penetration of the ceiling by the class A pipe and this is hidden from view by the support box. All the interior pipe is connector pipe, double-wall recommended for long runs like this would be.

I'll dig up some examples:
https://www.hearth.com/gallery/pics/woodcoal/source/tx-buck-91-decor.html