The past few days I have been struggling with my flame. I am starting to get a distinct greenish color at the base of the flame...the stove is a XXV and the pellets are enegex. I have yet to get the flame to be yelow/white...it is ussually yellow orange...and at times very tall and somewhat lazy. I am struggling.....the vent is a 45degree off the stove and straight out to the exterior with a 24" pipe. Right now I am turning the feed rate way down to 2.5 and I have it cranked (6)in stove mode with the dial set in the middle.
Pellet Flame is a strange color
- Thread starter tundraSQ
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GVA
Minister of Fire
How many days have you burned it? How many bags? What happens to the color of the flames if you open the door?tundraSQ said:
If you open the door and the flames get more yellow orange to whiteish and you do not have outside air hooked up check the fresh air intake door see if it is open, at that setup you should be in high burn and that intake should be wide open maybe its stuck. Check it out 8-/
And this may be beating a dead horse on this subject here on the forum but was it draft checked at installation?
HarryBack
New Member
no, GVA, Im guessing it wasnt, but most folks dont own a Magnahelic to do so.
Is Energex a virgin or recycled product? If recycled, certain things may exist in the product that colors the flame...green is weird. If you build up a bit of ash in front of the fire, the flame does get lazier, but should still be yellow to yellow-orange. GVA's point on the intake is a good one......open the back of the stove and if you arent using outside air, youll see a round hole, abt 2-1/2" in diameter, with a hanging steel damper inside of it...that damper should be open in normal operation, and closed when the stove isnt running. Ive seen that damper stick closed, which severely limits the combustion air, which severely limits your potential heat. If ther eis outside air, take the line off and check it...sometimes the pipe is RTV'd in place messily and the damper gets rtv'd too. The damper can also stick if it gets clogged with cat hair...usually takes a bit for this to happen tho.
Feed rate...try 3-3-1/2
Temp...try 70
Room temp mode, midrange
Also, your pipe setup is certainly far less than ideal. As I understand it, you come out with a 45 degree, then 2' out thru the wall and thats it? Id suggest once you get out, you put on a tee, then another 2' section, then a 90 degree, directed away from the house. Why? Because if gives you a small modicum of natural draft if the pwer goes out, thereby evacuating some smoke in the stove, and mose importantly, if you get a strong wind on that side of the house, it can go right down the pipe and overpower the combustion fan.....the 90 and tee will buffer the wind....much less likely.
Also, please fill us in on the outside air situation. Then we can all argue here for pages and pages on whether you should or shouldnt use outside air.
Is Energex a virgin or recycled product? If recycled, certain things may exist in the product that colors the flame...green is weird. If you build up a bit of ash in front of the fire, the flame does get lazier, but should still be yellow to yellow-orange. GVA's point on the intake is a good one......open the back of the stove and if you arent using outside air, youll see a round hole, abt 2-1/2" in diameter, with a hanging steel damper inside of it...that damper should be open in normal operation, and closed when the stove isnt running. Ive seen that damper stick closed, which severely limits the combustion air, which severely limits your potential heat. If ther eis outside air, take the line off and check it...sometimes the pipe is RTV'd in place messily and the damper gets rtv'd too. The damper can also stick if it gets clogged with cat hair...usually takes a bit for this to happen tho.
Feed rate...try 3-3-1/2
Temp...try 70
Room temp mode, midrange
Also, your pipe setup is certainly far less than ideal. As I understand it, you come out with a 45 degree, then 2' out thru the wall and thats it? Id suggest once you get out, you put on a tee, then another 2' section, then a 90 degree, directed away from the house. Why? Because if gives you a small modicum of natural draft if the pwer goes out, thereby evacuating some smoke in the stove, and mose importantly, if you get a strong wind on that side of the house, it can go right down the pipe and overpower the combustion fan.....the 90 and tee will buffer the wind....much less likely.
Also, please fill us in on the outside air situation. Then we can all argue here for pages and pages on whether you should or shouldnt use outside air.
HarryBack said:
Drafting question: unfortunately no ..I installed this myself...but I was told by the dealerthat this would not be an issue.
Venting: the 45 degree is because the stove is a corner install. I am not opposed to adding more pipe if it is needed.
energex pellets claims to be 100% natural sawdust....not sure if it is virgin or not I will look into that.
outside air" not at this time...dealertold me they never use outside air unless they run into a problem...my house is a 4year old modular with no special air handling system in it.
back of stove:knock out hole cover is still in place. should I knock that out?
opening up door with fire burning: I have never tried this....
room settings: using those settings now and I will report back....but I do not think that at 70 degrees I will be getting much output, as it is not that cold outside and the house naturally is 66 degrees. ( I am only running the stove now to work out any potential flaws before the snow comes.)
thanks for all the help here ....I am open to everything.
GVA
Minister of Fire
No leave the knockout there should be enough air flow coming through the vents in the shrouds..
If your house is 4 years old outside air should be employed as newer houses air pretty much air tight especially since tyvek came out even the walls dont breath any more. Outside air can be debatable with older houses but that is a whole other forum topic.
Did you check the damper?
If you have any questions about if you need outside air or not here's a simple test for you open a window in the room for a while see how the flame reacts.
I do believe that you should have outside air installed in your situation though. Better to find out now rather than when the temps really drop. :red:
If your house is 4 years old outside air should be employed as newer houses air pretty much air tight especially since tyvek came out even the walls dont breath any more. Outside air can be debatable with older houses but that is a whole other forum topic.
Did you check the damper?
If you have any questions about if you need outside air or not here's a simple test for you open a window in the room for a while see how the flame reacts.
I do believe that you should have outside air installed in your situation though. Better to find out now rather than when the temps really drop. :red:
GVA said:
I agree with the outside air install too...which is why i am doing all this with the temps in the 50's...no need to be outside drillign a hole in my house in December.
I am going to open a window and watch the flame...
How do I check the damper? i am not getting any blinking lights that would tell me its closed....how else can I see it?
GVA
Minister of Fire
There is no electrical signal that the damper is closed. remove the shroud that has the knockout on it and there should be a pipe about 2 1/4 inches it looks like a dryer exhaust vent without the cover, that is its a little door that is hinged it should move freely and while running be wide open.
GVA said:
Woops, I thought the damper was at the main exaust exit( which would be hidden by the vent.
GVA
Minister of Fire
GVA said:
I have not been able to get time to remove the back panel yet...but it seems that opening a window did little to change the flame. I'm going to let it burn for another hour or so and then shut it down to open the back.
From my owners nanual under partially burned pellets...the last batch was a bit chunky.
PARTIALLY BURNED PELLETS
1. Feed rate too high.
2. Draft too low. (Check burn pot clean-out slide
and door gasket).
3. Burn pot or heat exchanger tubes may need to
be cleaned.
4. Combination of all the above.
5. #6 status blink: A 6 blink control board status indication
is caused by poor or incomplete combustion.
The Automatic Ignition circuit board has the ability
to track the combustion through feed settings and
ESP temperatures. When the control board has
calculated poor or incomplete combustion, it will
shut down the unit as a safety feature. (Poor or
incomplete combustion is a contributer of creosote
which may cause a chimney fire)
A 6 blink status may be caused by several
things:
1. Blocked or partially blocked flue.
2. Blocked or partially blocked inlet air.
a. Backdraft damper on the inlet pipe may be
stuck closed.
b. If outside air is installed, the inlet cover may
be blocked.
3. The air chamber under the burnpot may be filled
with fines and small bits of ash.
4. The holes in the burnpot may be getting filled
with ash or carbon buildup.
5. Combustion blower fan blades may need
cleaned.
6. There is no fuel in the hopper.
PARTIALLY BURNED PELLETS
1. Feed rate too high.
2. Draft too low. (Check burn pot clean-out slide
and door gasket).
3. Burn pot or heat exchanger tubes may need to
be cleaned.
4. Combination of all the above.
5. #6 status blink: A 6 blink control board status indication
is caused by poor or incomplete combustion.
The Automatic Ignition circuit board has the ability
to track the combustion through feed settings and
ESP temperatures. When the control board has
calculated poor or incomplete combustion, it will
shut down the unit as a safety feature. (Poor or
incomplete combustion is a contributer of creosote
which may cause a chimney fire)
A 6 blink status may be caused by several
things:
1. Blocked or partially blocked flue.
2. Blocked or partially blocked inlet air.
a. Backdraft damper on the inlet pipe may be
stuck closed.
b. If outside air is installed, the inlet cover may
be blocked.
3. The air chamber under the burnpot may be filled
with fines and small bits of ash.
4. The holes in the burnpot may be getting filled
with ash or carbon buildup.
5. Combustion blower fan blades may need
cleaned.
6. There is no fuel in the hopper.
GVA
Minister of Fire
Ya don't have to wait for it to shut down just keep the kids and small animals (and your hands) away from moving parts. Have you had the 6 blink status?
GVA said:
No blinking light....and I will look at how to remove the panel and get back to you. I am noticing that the flame maybe be more active with the wondow open...I am going to close it now and see what happens.
Funny you should mention green color. That seems very odd in a burn pot - at least to me!
A very pale green can come from boron containing compounds like boric acid (sometimes used as non toxic insecticide and flame retardant?) A deep emerald green is often due to copper and copper containing salts.
If the green color presists, you may want to look for signs of contamination in the burn pot or possibly in the pellets.
Corey
A very pale green can come from boron containing compounds like boric acid (sometimes used as non toxic insecticide and flame retardant?) A deep emerald green is often due to copper and copper containing salts.
If the green color presists, you may want to look for signs of contamination in the burn pot or possibly in the pellets.
Corey
I woke up and cleaned out the burnpot and set the stove to the following
air-med
temp-75
room mode
feed 3
flame looks GREAT right now after 5 minutes....i will guess that in about 20 minutes or so it will get fat and heavy and tall enough to be curling up against the window.
air-med
temp-75
room mode
feed 3
flame looks GREAT right now after 5 minutes....i will guess that in about 20 minutes or so it will get fat and heavy and tall enough to be curling up against the window.
HarryBack
New Member
good...if it slows down in a few hours, walk over and open the window, then watch the flame.....you should see a change within 30 seconds...better yet, let someone else open the window and you watch it. If it brightens, u need outside air.
HarryBack said:
It slowed down in about 10 minutes....I got frustrated and turned the pellet feed to <2 and took a shower....I came down and it looks better. I am going to leave it alone like you said for an hour now and then open a window.
This is regarding the damper: I took the cover plate off and it is REALLY tough to get back there to see the opening. But with a flashlight and a mirror I am able to see the thing. It is closed...or at least it appears to be closed. I can see a "round flap" and it is closed. I cannot touch it to see if it is loose...but should it be swung open? I am not sure i can get a picture of it..
HarryBack
New Member
round flapper? yeah, that sounds right...with the stove running, it should be OPEN.....thats how the air gets in the stove...just bend a wore or something if you cant get back there and see if its swinging freely.....if that thing isnt open, its likely the source or at least an indicator of your issue....def should be OPEN while the stove is running....no ifs, ands or buts
HarryBack said:
It does swing freely...but it is in the down position right now. or at least its 85% down..so maybe this is correct?
HarryBack
New Member
go ahead and put the stove in TEST mode, THEN see how much it opens.....depending upon the speed of the combustion fan, the damper will open more or less.
GVA
Minister of Fire
tundraSQ said:
Is your window open when you checked this? if it is and the flapper is still closed then your combustion blower is not set right ie: draft adjustment, or there is a blockage in the flue or maybe even under the burn pot where the air actually flows
If it is a draft issue your manual describes the best ways to vent your stove. Though exceptable directly out the back, but not recomended
The best solution is to have 3 to 6' verticle rise before the exit spelled out in your manual.
The best solution is to have 3 to 6' verticle rise before the exit spelled out in your manual.
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