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Posted By jtakeman,
Jan 8, 2010 at 10:16 PM
X2 Jay, you da man!
By one person, with one particular stove, in a particular house, with particular weather and a particular vent system.
It also reflects on particular BAG of pellets from on particular batch.
In short, it may be of interest, but I really fail to see how the results can be applied to a broad spectrum of users, batches, stoves, etc.
I remember the perfect pellets from way back - Lignetics at the time - softwoods from out west. In most stoves, they truly were far superior to anything else we were able to get in the east. However, in stoves like Harman which would put up with lesser pellets, we didn't notice much difference. In fact, we successfully fed Peanut Hull Pellets ($30 a ton) through the Harman mechanism with very little problem other than having to empty the ash.
The problem of unsuitable or less than perfect pellets, IMHO, is as much the responsibility of the stove manufacturer as it is of the pellet maker. I have to wonder if the Pellet stove makers on the west coast import large quantities of eastern pellets to test in their stoves...if not, perhaps they should.
Since this all started with one basic design (Whitfield) - which was based on western softwoods - and our industry is pretty famous for one company copying the next - one has to wonder how many companies innovated as opposed to just looking at existing designs. I think now we are finally seeing some new generation stoves which may be more attuned to the real fuel which is out there.
Sorry I wasted your time web. Did I touch a NEWP nerve here?
Jay..... Great Job Your results will influence my buying selection...........
plain and simple. More Fuel=More heat.
Less Fuel= Less heat.
Pellet size has to be accounted for.
Length, width and density
How would you do a fair test on all the different brands?
I found it fair to just leave my stove setting to 3 and measure temps. Do you measure all the brands, weight them per pound and see how long the bags last to the exact minute. I think not. Thats lab testing at least. Our lab testing is self policed by the manufactor.
I am doing what the average person does. Loads the hopper sets to there normal burn setting and goes from there.
You forgot one little thing too! The fiber. You see each species of wood has a different BTU rating. Use a lower grade fiber you get no heat. Use a quality fiber you get great heat! Easy to use an excuse about length, width and density. That's why there controlled by the PFI standard. The fiber isn't! Funny how another brand had long pellets too. But there heat was still very good? how can you explain that????
Thanks again, Jay for all of your hard work! I know your chart may not be perfect, but it serves as a good reference point for newbies like myself who are trying to get the best bang for their buck. Without it, I would have been happy burning low-heat, dirty pellets, thinking it was just normal.
Sorry to double post, but are there any blue labeled Lignetics (from the new Virginia plant) near you, Jay? I'm curious what your results for them would be. They burned extremely dirty for me, and the heat was lacking.
I have not seen them anywhere near me. I have been keeping my eye out for them.
Maybe another member has seen them in CT?
I put the new batch of NEWP's in this morning, I will post temps this afternoon. I have the 1020 batch in the stove. Longest pellet I saw was not more than 1 1/4" long. UPS beat the day lights out of the boxes and there were a lot of fines. I didn't bother to measure them. So there will be an N/A in the fines column. Just FYI.
jay, not sure if anyone mentioned this but wonder if because this test is aimed at finding the Ultra hot pellets, then maybe the chart should be sorted by the hottest temps going to the lowest, what do you think?
Let me put it in layman's terms 4 u.
Without regards to the material being bamboo or pipe tobacco:
plain and simple. More Fuel=More heat.
Less Fuel= Less heat.
Now if u oppose this fundamental fact, I suggest your biased or misinformed.
If u don't like my opinions then don't pay attention either and
your average joe theory doesn't hold water b cause the average joe is heating with fossil fuel.
I am in no way biased in anything I said! I am just asking how you come to your conclusion! In other words you don't have a clue on testing in the real world. More heat more fuel is what you said already. Tell me how you would test in your exact words.
Adding more fuel with a lower heat pellet would only empty your hopper faster. A better grade fuel would give the heat needed at a lesser feed rate and you would not need to fill the hopper as often. Plain and simple, If I turn up the feed rate on my stove. No matter what pellet is in the hopper its is going to feed more fuel in the burn pot. The faster it feeds the faster the hopper empties out! If you don't like my test's go do your own!
If you have a better way, Don't flap your lips! Show us or explain the better way!
I’ve been a fan of this forum for a few months. I’ve found it very informative and learn quite a bit about pellets and stoves but I have never commented before this. This thread has bought me out of the woodwork.
I love my okies but living in a remote area I like to try different brands if my source ever was to dry up. I use Jay’s chart as a guide not gospel. I realize I might have different results but it gives me a guideline since I’ve only been burning just shy of a year. I buy a few bags of different brands and form my own opinion.
BTU….I couldn’t have said it better.
Jay, I appreciate your time and effort!
Ditto here, excellent remarks from both BTU and last comment. Nothing more needs to be said, except Jay I appreciate your testings as do most of us.
i agree with you 100%. btu.......... thanks also jay for all the work you put into this. it is a big help. i still am going to test them before i buy the too. and im buying different pellets than i did last year barefoot and okies or hammers.
Jay, quit pissing off people and get back to the testing! LOL Don't listen to they few.....we appreciate the time and effort, and if the "few" actually read your results may vary part, they might just shut up! It is a fair test.....apple to apple in the feed rate etc. Real world as well. I am a set it and forget it guy, but my xxv on room temp makes the adjustments for me.....Keep it up Jay.
I want to thank everyone for there support. Very kind of you. I was going to do a pole to see if you all though it valid I continue. But I think that has been answered!
Anyway Mark from NEWP made me think on the feed rate, So I thought I would play along. I put the 1st bag in at 4:45 am this morning. I did my temp check and got 225ºF and proceded to increase the feed rate to 4 and trimmed it to about 250ºF. The stove ran on high/low setting with t stat all day. and I just dumped in the 2nd bag at 6:10 pm.
That would be roughly 14 hours from 1 bag.
With my stove set to 3 and the Cubex burning the exact same high/low settings. temps were at about 260ºF. Also in a little bit colder weather too. The 2 bags lasted about 1 1/2 days. Roughly 18 hours per bag.
I think my math pretty much say's it all. You guys want pellet mileage(kind of like gas mileage in your vehicles). Buy the hottest pellet you can afford! You will not need to jack up your feed rate! I think this also rest's the more fuel more heat theory. You will just drain your tank that much faster.
I set the feed rate back to 3 and will temp check the 2nd batch shortly!
Probably the best way to see what the actual BTU's are per brand/batch is with the caloric method. I think I might need to do some home work! There will be no rants from anyone as that is how the labs test the BTU's!
Hope this doesn't stir up any more bee's/hornets! Just trying to test them all fairly!
My temps have been deamed invalid! But if you would like I can make a seperate chart listing them highest to lowest. Let me know and I will see what I can do.
Been away from here for a bit. What's the talk about your testing being invalid? I have not had time to read the posts, but what you are doing is a guideline from your stove. That being said, I would think that the heat produced from one pellet to another with similar settings gives a pretty good starting point to go from.
You have said it yourself that different stoves, different results. What you are doing is invaluable to alot of us here as a guide. The rest that dont agree, to heck with em.
Keep up the good work !
Here's my lab test.
Greene Teams: Put my hand in front of the air tubes at full steam......hot hand
Okies: Put my hand in front of the air tubes at full steam......burned hand
Official lab test results so far.....Okies hotter than Greene Team :lol:
Spruce Points and Dragons ready to go next.
Keep up the good work Jay, we appreciate it
I been told to "don’t use it or play attention to it" (meaning the thread) by a party who has admitted that they have monetary interest at stake.
To "Don’t flap your lips!" by a party who said "I am in no way biased in anything I said! "
To "just shut up! by a party who claims different pellet sizes are "apple to apple in the feed rate"
I would suggest the parties read the conduct rules located here: http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Forum_Rules/
And to all the parties to offer any evidence to disprove my infallible statement "Without regards to the material being bamboo or pipe tobacco:
plain and simple. More Fuel=More heat.
Less Fuel= Less heat."
and not the same old rhetoric.
Hey Sheldon, is that you? You know, there is a reason that Leonard gets the hot blonde
Take this test for what it is. A general overview and comparison. A guide.
So your saying every pellet has the same BTU value, I just need to turn up the feed rate on my stove to achieve this?
Hey Jay looks like the hornet came out one last time.Yikes
Keep up the good work cause there are people who like what you are doing.