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Pipe & Chimney confusion

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by royce, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. royce

    royce New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Hi to all! Newbie here and my head is spinning with pipe choices to connect my wood burning stove!
    The facts:
    Pot belly wood burner (designed for 6" with an oval exit)
    I'm going up appr. 32", make a 90* and then out through a combustible wall (standard frame construction)
    Another 90* outside and then up 7 feet with chimney pipe to clear the 1 story roof line.

    My head is spinning with single wall, double wall, triple wall, the oval stove exit, the damper, the barometric damper, the thimble...i can't mix brands.....help!

    Here's what I think I know:
    Black stove pipe for interior
    Silver chimney pipe for exterior
    I need a damper
    I might need a barometric damper
    The thimble is what the pipe passes through to leave the house
    I need a single wall to bend/flex into the oval shape of the stove exit but i want to use double wall for better clearance to walls and ceiling.
    Cement the pipe joints?
    Pipes are VERY EXPENSIVE! It looks like the pipes will cost as much or more than the stove.

    Soooo...any help designing what i need would be greatly appreciated.

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  2. dorkweed

    dorkweed Guest

    Figure on at least 50% more class A chimney on the outside of your house!!!!
  3. Wood Duck

    Wood Duck Minister of Fire

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    Do you already own the stove? it is not generally legal to install as a new installation a stove that does not meet current EPA standards, at least not in most parts of the US. Perhaps somebody else will chime in on this.

    Why do you say you will need a damper and/pr barometric damper?

    I don't know about your situation but I think a typical new installation calls for a stove (obviously), with single wall pipe inside the house, a proper insulated thimble to go through the wall, then insulated (double or triple wall) pipe outside. The total flue pipe (chimney pipe) height is specified by the manufacturer and I think something like 15 or 18 ft is a typical minimum height. most new stoves don't need a damper in a typical installation.
  4. Robere210

    Robere210 New Member

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    Nov 25, 2012
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    How do I know if my stove is EPA approved? Not that I'm worried--there's no building restrictions at all in my County except for Septic Tanks--I can build anything I'm man enough to build.
  5. royce

    royce New Member

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    Dec 1, 2012
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    Yes i have the stove and it is not epa approved...but not required where i live.

    After Sandy ( the storm...not that girl back in college :) ), we learned some hard lessons...the biggest of which is to be prepared...'cause there is no real help on the way.
    I need to be able to keep my family warm in the winter during an emergency, so right after the storm, on my extremely limited budget, I got a chainsaw, a maul, built a wood shed, and got a stove.
    I cut plenty of wood for next year (from all the downed trees) and got plenty of kiln dried scrap for this winter from a local master carpenter who generates tons of scrap.
    The stove is in place and i need to pipe it.
    Let's take this one step at a time....and remember...what we know we often take for granted and don't understand why everyone else fails to see the obvious, so please be patient.

    It's the inside pipe that is making me crazy. I want to use double wall to get a better draft with the hotter internal pipe, but i need to use single wall (i think) to compress the 1st 6" piece to fit the oval stove exit. Is this possible?
  6. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Personally I would not want that stove in my home.. Is there some compelling reason why you want to use that particular stove when there are much better choices available? I feel you should consider an epa rated stove for safety as well as efficiency reasons and overall satisfaction too.. Did you know that an epa stove will use about 50% less wood to provide the same heat? This translates to less wood bought, stacked and handled and little to no smoke from your chimney.. Your primary focus at this point should acquiring a dry wood supply cut, split and stacked off the ground which can be top covered. Figure on at least a year for most wood species and 2-3 years for oak. I just hate to see you be unsafe and unhappy with your stove choice.. BTW welcome to the forum!

    Ray
  7. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    Some of these cheaper, non-EPA stoves are very dangerous to operate. There are numerous posts here showing these things near meltdown.

    Considering you'd be running this thing in emergencies when:
    you may not have working smoke detectors;
    you may not have water;
    you may not have the availability of emergency services (the fire department);

    do you really want to go cheap?

    You can buy a very reliable, safe, efficient EPA stove for not much more.

    Sorry I and others aren't addressing your question but many folks have come here only to have their minds changed about installs like this....for good reason.
    raybonz likes this.
  8. royce

    royce New Member

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    Okay...let's get the political and social out of the way so I can learn something about pipes...
    1. I got the stove because it was all that I could afford, it is rated to burn anything (wood, coal, pellets,corn), and has no catalyst to replace/maintain, and fits into the space i have both dimensionally ansaesthetically, which,in my wildest dreams, i never thought i would need to get a wood burner.
    2. If operated properly and safely during an emergency, like any other tool or piece of equipment that becomes dangerous in the wrong hands (your car, chainsaw, axe, cigarette, etc) it will serve me well for many years to come and will not pose a threat to anyone.

    I would imagine that if I visited you at your home, I would find at least 3 major issues on which to reprimand you regarding safety, efficiency and/or common sense according to my perception of world, physical fact, statistics, or all of the above.
    Now, can we please discuss pipes?
    Scols likes this.
  9. Peak and Pine

    Peak and Pine New Member

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    Deep Maine
    We can. But first a nod of admiration of your attitude regarding the nay-sayers. Yeah. You're gonna do just fine with the stove you've got. But that oval thing in the back, a problem I too share with my 1878 parlor stove. As you may now know, you just squeeze the 6" round into an oval and shove it in, leaving the other end round to fit the 90-degree elbow. But your main question, can it connect to double wall interior pipe, I dunno; I'm using single-wall all the way. Are you really stuck on the double wall? Maybe a stove shop guy can fabricate something for you, something custom. Good luck with all this. I'd love a pot belly.

    As for this:

    Only three states disallow use of a non-EPA stove. Three.
  10. royce

    royce New Member

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    Dec 1, 2012
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    Thank you for your support, and I hope that everyone here understands that their warnings and advice are not being ignored, but are being considered in the context of the bigger picture, so thank you to all and your concern for my well being is greatly apprciated.

    My inclination towards double wall is because it is my understanding that double wall stove pipe will keep the flu hotter and create a better draft....and it reduces radiant heat to the ceiling above. The stoves sits in a space with a 7' ceiling.

    Okay, so i understand that i must use a single wall to accommodate the oval flu connection.
    After that, i need the damper? A standard damper or a barometric damper? I have read both pro and con on the barometric.
  11. High_flyer

    High_flyer New Member

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    Maybe it's an idea to look into some of the Duratech products. I've been doing a lot of stovepipe research and they have an oval-to-round adapter to get you started out of the stove. That will most likely have to be a singlewall section (I believe that's under their Durablack line) they also have nifty little adapters that you can easily attach double wall pipe to single wall pipe.

    That's what my solution will most likely be, single wall out of the stove, the horizontal part of the stovepipe towards the thimble I'm going with double wall, due to the thimble being very close to a plaster wall, therefore I need the reduced clearance pipe.
  12. royce

    royce New Member

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    Pretty much the same conclusions i have come to.
    Is there any advantage to using 2 45 * elbows instead of a 90* to get the horizontal to the thimble.
    I read that the straighter the run the better the draft and the 45's offer ,less resistance than the 90
  13. High_flyer

    High_flyer New Member

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    Yes, in your case I would go with the 2x 45 inside, it looksmlike it will help with your draft, as your vertical chimney isn't all that high. I can't back that up with anything, but it looks like the shallower bend will give less resistance to the gasses.

    I ended up doing it too, as it will also give me a little more wiggle space with the position of my stove, the 45's can be turned a little more than just the 90 by itself.
  14. tim1

    tim1 Member

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    Loc:
    columbia river gorge,portland or
    Whatever you decide, use welded seam pipe in the house, not the crimped!!!!!! Go 2 45's for better flow. Thimble for wall and up with triple wall stainless. You will know soon if it needs to be higher. No big deal, use a damper if you feel that having the ability to stop a runaway fire is important. I have used them in past, but not anymore, each his own. I use a epa stove for the benefit of efficiency, not that it is politically correct, or it really saves the envireoment, we all do what we can, hook up safely and enjoy! Tim
  15. TradEddie

    TradEddie Minister of Fire

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    If the safety or efficiency arguments in favor of a modern stove can't sway you, perhaps a different financial argument will work. Insurance. Several people here have had problems with home insurance, even when installing a modern, listed stove. Be sure that your insurance company is okay with this, you don't want to find out the hard way.

    If you do continue to install it (as many here have done), please observe all required clearances to combustibles, put a carbon monoxide detector in the stove room, and regularly check that chimney liner for creosote, especially the first few months.

    TE
  16. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    I would vote no on the damper. It is to control the air flow thru the chimney, you should have some air controls on the stove. Also if you are worried about draft because of the short runs, putting a damper in there is just one more thing to cause turbulence. You would need a wall pass thru. It will be one designed to be used with the Class A pipe, that is the exterior chimney pipe you will use. From the Class A you can use double wall pipe and they do make a double wall pipe oval to round.
  17. northernontario

    northernontario Member

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    If price is an issue... try to find someone selling chimney pipe used. I've seen quite a few ads on our local Kijiji for the insulated stovepipe... Homeowner A installs a woodstove, and then moves. Homeowner B doesn't want to deal with the hassles, or is afraid of fire... removes it.

    I got 21' of insulated pipe, cap, wall brackets, T... for $400. Look at a larger area... you can save quite a bit of money if you're willing to drive an hour or two... or four. Same thing goes with used EPA stoves. Sometimes people practically give them away...
  18. MnDave

    MnDave Guest

    I changed a 90 to 2-45's and it definitely improved the draft.
    I also added a stovepipe damper but only after I determined that I needed one. Even leaving it vertical makes a noticeable difference and I have 25 feet of insulated Class A but outside.

    You can add the damper later.

    Yep, that oval is a piece of cake. KISS no doublewall inside.

    Good luck.
    MnDave
  19. MnDave

    MnDave Guest

    BTW why do you think you might need a barometric dampener?

    MnDave
  20. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Just be careful as you learn this stove. I've seen these take off to the moon. In one case, I swear I could see the pipe damper through the stove pipe :eek:

    They are fun, just remember many were meant to be a stove that was tended to with small loads quite regularly, not loaded to the gills and walked away from.

    If it were me, I'd install the stove pipe damper. Worse case scenario, you could remove it later.

    pen
  21. MnDave

    MnDave Guest

    Suggestion on chimney. Call an installer. Maybe he has some good used pipe. It is worth a shot. Or check your local craigslist or auctions. An online auction close to me had 24 feet (6 sections) that went for $161 reserve bid (only one bidder). I saw the stuff, not bad.

    MnDave
  22. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Not sure you want to put in a non epa stove with no damper, usually recomended for non epa stoves, if you have a good working chinmey a damper wont amount to a hill of beans as far as turbulence goes, all older stove used them.
  23. royce

    royce New Member

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    Whew! That's a lot of info!
    The barometric damper....i thought that it somehow acts as an automatic damper to maintain a good, slow burn.

    I was under the impression that the standard damper was necesary to stop downdrafts. Aparently not. I also read that it is used to limit the amount of uodraft to keep a fire more temperature consistant and burning slower. Please correct the myths here.

    As for a run-a-way fire, i have read about this and will be extremely careful not to overload. I understand the ramifications and do not have any interest i product testing for meltdown.

    I will go with the 2 45's instead of the 90.

    Why the triple wall stainless outside?
  24. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    Barometric dampers are usually used for furnace type wood burners
    Standard damper is used for more control of the fire, if you have down drafts you have issues
    It has to be class A pipe when it penetrates a floor level or a ceiling, does not have to be triple wall, most of the class A is double wall insulated, stainless is nice because it holds up well.
  25. royce

    royce New Member

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    I think i have what I need for inside decisions. Thanks to all for great info!

    About draft..i always thought that it was normal to have a down-draft back into the house whe the stove is cold (not in use).
    And also believed that the damper was necesary to stop that downdraft.

    The facts?

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