Playing with non-cat stove :) (PE Summit)

[Slow1]

Well, I finally got a chance to play with a burn-tube style non-cat stove today.

A friend of mine bought a new house then put in a nice new PE insert. I went over today and got to see both. Obviously a house warming gift was in order so I brought some of my best oak.

At any rate, I arrived and got to see the stove - it was burning very low with some dark on the glass (bottom corners) and not the most exciting look to it. Air about 1/4 from lowest setting on the slider. There was a good sized coal bed and some mostly burned splits in there. Turned air up to full and the splits started burning... let this go while we ate.

So, finally the splits were down to coals. Stove now had a really good bed of coals - probably more than it should at reload but had to get done to get back to work so time to play. I put three decent sized pieces of my oak on there (E-W) - they barely fit so I guess 16" is about how wide that insert is (or I got wider pieces by accident?). Anyway, they caught right away and shortly after closing the door I saw a sheet of secondaries starting at the top of the stove. I started turning down the air and not long after there was a beautiful curtain of flame shooting down into the rising flames. Long story short I was able to get air down to maybe 1/8th and it still had very nice secondaries as well as some flames on the splits to boot. The heat was great - fan on full, lots of heat off the stove. Got the paint curing as well - guess we hit a new high temp. No thermometer (Should have brought one with me) so I don't know how hot we were burning.

Comment was that they were not able to turn air down that far before and still have flames - much less any secondaries (I'm not sure they had ever seen them before). She said "is it the wood that is the difference?" Mission accomplished 4 year old oak splits vs just delivered "seasoned" wood bought from local dealer - not exactly a fair comparison eh?

In any case I think that PE Summit is a nice stove - it sure was pumping out the heat when I left and although the fan was audible it was not distracting. I was disappointed though that it hadn't burned off the glass by time I left - I'm sure it was hot enough inside but it just didn't seem to be burning away very fast. I wish I could have stayed around to see how long those splits lasted and kept up the fire show. I also wonder about the temps we were running at - I'm so addicted to my thermometers after all.

 

[havermeyer]

You did them a great service by showing them how better seasoned wood burns.

You can tell someone about how important it is to burn properly seasoned wood, but to actually feel the difference... I'm sure they won't forget.

 

[shawneyboy]

Slow---- Job well Done

 

[PapaDave]

Your hostess was obviously smart enough to know it was the wood. Good opportunity, and you took advantage of it.
They'll thank you next year, or the year after.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Very well done Slow. I do hope you had enough time to talk even more about that wood and what they might expect this winter. Even better, how they need to get next year's wood around now!

 

[HotCoals]

Would wood with a higher moisture content give off more of a light show from the secondary tubes?
I thought that was one of the benefits of secondary burns be it a cat or tube.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

No. There is no good reason to burn wood with a higher moisture content.

 

[HotCoals]

No. There is no good reason to burn wood with a higher moisture content.

I concur.
I'm just saying if you do have wood which is somewhat green it will smoke more and therefore one of the benefits of a tube or cat stove would be to burn it off..maybe I'm off base.
But if I use greener wood my cat gets really active and turns it to heat.
But yes..I would agree you should burn well seasoned wood.

 

[Slow1]

No. There is no good reason to burn wood with a higher moisture content.

I concur.
I'm just saying if you do have wood which is somewhat green it will smoke more and therefore one of the benefits of a tube or cat stove would be to burn it off..maybe I'm off base.
But if I use greener wood my cat gets really active and turns it to heat.
But yes..I would agree you should burn well seasoned wood.

The problem as I understand it is not as simple as green wood smokes more. Rather damp/green wood requires more energy to get up to burning temperatures as you have to heat up the water and boil it off - this is a considerable amount of energy. This cools the fire keeping the wood itself at a lower temperature so it simply won't burn as well and the firebox as a whole not as hot so the secondaries are harder to achieve. Secondary factor is that the water is turned into steam - I forget the exact ratio, but it is a pretty high ration of volume of steam you get for each bit of water. This steam will then be displacing air in the fuel/air mix within the stove (steam doesn't burn) and therefore further disrupting optimal burn conditions.

So - yes you may well get more smoke from wet/green wood but it will be at the cost of a cooler fire and a less optimal burn environment. Bottom line is that EPA stoves simply are not designed to burn this way so they won't do as well as with lower MC wood. Now you can go 'too far' to the dry and put in ultra-dry (think kiln dried or VERY arid environment) wood and then you can have a different version of a less than optimal burn.

 

[ecocavalier02]

yes but that moisture is no good for the cat. thats why its best to leave bypass open and burn it off a little longer.

 

[ecocavalier02]

yes but that moisture is no good for the cat. thats why its best to leave bypass open and burn it off a little longer.

 

[Slow1]

Very well done Slow. I do hope you had enough time to talk even more about that wood and what they might expect this winter. Even better, how they need to get next year's wood around now!

Indeed - I have been preaching to them that they need to get their wood in place ahead of time. They have seen my crazy stacks to boot. However, nothing like a demo to make the point.

Now I also have to say I really enjoyed my short experience burning in that stove - it was fun to play with the air adjustment and see the change to the secondary/primary flame patterns. I'd like to have loaded that stove full and see what I could do but...

Oh - and I did get an update as I heard later that the load I put in there had finally burned down (flames out) about 4 hours after I loaded it. House was up to 70 - but that as a reference point is hard given that I don't know what it was to start with, but she found it worth commenting on. Not bad for three splits I think even if they were particularly solid pieces hand picked for the purpose. They have a great setup for heating with wood even if the house is huge.

 

[SKIN052]

Is the Summit insert a different beast than the standard Summit? I do not have Burn Tubes, rather a Baffle box I'll call it. Also the summit will take an 18" log quite easily. I still great secondaries, but no tubes. Great job on the wood, you sir have helped your friend learn what that stove is capable of and he will reap the rewards for the life of the stove.

 

[HotCoals]

Yeah..I hear you.
But I also witnessed first hand what 35% moisture wood will do when in a cat stove compared to 15%.
I have no idea about tube stoves.
Yes i would rather be below 20% MC.
Almost bought a Lopi Liberty tube stove...I bet tubes can be fun to watch..but I'll take the long burn of a cat with a thermostat.
Anybody ever make a stove with both?

 

[Slow1]

Is the Summit insert a different beast than the standard Summit? I do not have Burn Tubes, rather a Baffle box I'll call it. Also the summit will take an 18" log quite easily. I still great secondaries, but no tubes. Great job on the wood, you sir have helped your friend learn what that stove is capable of and he will reap the rewards for the life of the stove.

Ok - no tubes as such. It is more of a 'box with holes in it'. I was using the term more generically as opposed to a cat or downdraft style stove. I suppose I should be more precise - especially with this crowd!

I was loading E-W - I think it may be deeper N-S but I didn't try. I also didn't actually measure the splits I put in there, it could well be they were 18" - too late to measure now though, heh. I just went to the side of my pile that had the oldest wood and pulled a half-dozen of the nicest looking pieces I could find and get out without causing a general collapse. I do have some of different lengths in there.

 

[Slow1]

Yeah..I hear you.
But I also witnessed first hand what 35% moisture wood will do when in a cat stove compared to 15%.

Oh? Do tell...

Almost bought a Lopi Liberty tube stove...I bet tubes can be fun to watch..but I'll take the long burn of a cat with a thermostat.
Anybody ever make a stove with both?

I don't know about a thermostat but the new stove from Woodstock has both burn tubes and cat(s).

 

[BrotherBart]

That Summit was born to burn N/S. Next time feed it that way and enjoy the show. Just don't pack it full on your first try or you will have some pucker factor to deal with. :lol:

 

[HotCoals]

That new stove from Woodstock will be something to check out.
Burn tubes and a cat!

 

[BrotherBart]

That new stove from Woodstock will be something to check out.
Burn tubes and a cat!

Poor guy that buys one won't know what to argue about. :lol:

 

[gandrimp]

That new stove from Woodstock will be something to check out.
Burn tubes and a cat!

Poor guy that buys one won't know what to argue about. :lol:

No, but his friends will help him find somethin.

 

[Stump_Branch]

What is the name of this new woodstock?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

They have not yet named the new stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

What is the name of this new woodstock?

I hear they're considering calling it "The Backwoods Wood Savage."

On a serious note . . . I really, really want to see this when it gets dressed up to see what it looks like on the outside.

 

[firefighterjake]

No clearer illustration to the saying . . . Seeing is believing . . . and Actions speak louder than words.

You can tell folks until you're blue in the face how important it is to have well seasoned wood and that the wood will ignite better and give you a better burn . . . but for some folks they practically need to be beat over the head with a well seasoned stick of white ash and see the difference before they'll finally decide that you may be right and not be that crazy guy with so much wood in his backyard.