I THINK THERE MAY BE AN AIR LEAK IN THE DOOR ON MY PE SUMMIT INSERT. WHEN I LOAD THE STOVE WITH ALOT OF FUEL, IT SEEMS WHEN THE FIRE IS AT PEAK IT STARTS TO RUN A BIT AND MAKE THE INSIDE AIR BAFFLE BARELY START TO GET RED HOT. EVEN WITH AIR DAMPER ON ALL THE WAY LOW IT CONTINUES TO BURN VERY HOT, IM NOT SURE IF IM JUST OVERLOADING OR IF THER IS SOME AIR LEAKING IN. HOGWILDZ, HOW OFFEN DO YOU REPLACE THE ROPE SEAL AROUND THE DOOR ON YOU R PE SUMMIT?ANY THOUGHTS GUYS?
PLEASE HELP! HOGWILDZ HOW TO SPOT AIR LEAKS IN DOOR
- Thread starter Mr.Burns
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Michael6268
Minister of Fire
Sounds to me like your secondary burn is just taking off! Im sure you did the dollar bill test, if not, try it when the stove is cool. Also I have often used the "lighter" method to check for leaks. I use one of those lighters with the long stem and the trigger and go around the doors to see if anything is getting sucked in. The only part it wont work on is the part near your damper control if it is close to the door. It will just get sucked up the damper inlet.
OK Homer, time to get your sleepy head off the CAPS LOCK key. No need to shout. 
Can you describe the chimney stack that the stove is hooked up to? How tall and what is the inner dimension of the flue? Is the flue sealed where it joins the stove at the start collar?
Can you describe the chimney stack that the stove is hooked up to? How tall and what is the inner dimension of the flue? Is the flue sealed where it joins the stove at the start collar?
stoveguy2esw
Minister of Fire
Mr.Burns said:
how full are you loading? most reburn units need to have air space above the fire to get secondary burning , we recommend in our units to load only to the top of the bricks for this reason, loading up too close to the secondarys can change airflow in the firebox and limit the ignition and normal function of the secondary burn
Gunner
New Member
Mr.Burns said:
Have you taken any temperatures?
How tall is the chimney?
If your glass is staying clean chances are the door is not leaking. Try the dollar bill test. You can also adjust the door tighter by tapping on the metal latch on the stove body too draw it in.
The same thing happens to me on a full load on real cold nights (although I've never seen red) This combined with 22' chimney and my stack catching wicked winds 24/7 and my OCD need for complete control I have decided to install a damper.
Every dealer I've talked to has tried to convince me I don't need one....they seem to be the ultimate taboo around here. ie I called two stove shops to order ( i run doublewall and nobody stocks doublewall damper sections) today one said I shouldn't get a damper I should just fab up a piece of steel to put under my cap with a hole cut at 5" dia to slow things down. The other said I should cut or bend the "stop" on the primary air which will let me close off the air completely, but I could have the damper if I "really" wanted it. LOL Thank you very much I said just order the damper. >:-(
Roospike
New Member
Yep , post your stove temperatures of your thermometer and let us know what its doing and your can read the following thread on door adjustment of the Summit if its needed.
Dollar bill test is a must ,
have you adjusted the door sense new ?
What kind of wood is being used ?
What size splits and rounds?
How long is the wood being chared before closing down ?
Are you leaving the door cracked to fire faster?
are you racking the coals foward or loading on a flat coal bed ?
are u loading wood North to South ? East to West?
800-850+ degree temps thread
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/5506/
Dollar bill test is a must ,
have you adjusted the door sense new ?
What kind of wood is being used ?
What size splits and rounds?
How long is the wood being chared before closing down ?
Are you leaving the door cracked to fire faster?
are you racking the coals foward or loading on a flat coal bed ?
are u loading wood North to South ? East to West?
800-850+ degree temps thread
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/5506/
Trouble in Camelot. Tell me it isn't so. A PE that is overfiring?
Roo has outlined the dollar bill test
Hog found out he needed to tweak the door latch. Is there an ash door gasket ?
Additional Venting info would be helpfull and gunner asked.
Gunner how did the manual damper work out?
Can you provide details of what you find works best, your opperating proceedures..
I think the reason manual in line dampers are discouraged is the fear of providing more controls that originally planned for the stove.
I think as we see more and more full liners and correct sized chimneys, then over drafts issues increase. Maybe it is time
manufactures address this possibility and offer solutions.
Again where is your dealerto address these issues? What has he done to resolve your situation? Where is PE when one needs them?
What does you instruction manual tell you about possible overdraft problems? We need the head of PE engineering to visit out forum to resolve this problem
Roo has outlined the dollar bill test
Hog found out he needed to tweak the door latch. Is there an ash door gasket ?
Additional Venting info would be helpfull and gunner asked.
Gunner how did the manual damper work out?
Can you provide details of what you find works best, your opperating proceedures..
I think the reason manual in line dampers are discouraged is the fear of providing more controls that originally planned for the stove.
I think as we see more and more full liners and correct sized chimneys, then over drafts issues increase. Maybe it is time
manufactures address this possibility and offer solutions.
Again where is your dealerto address these issues? What has he done to resolve your situation? Where is PE when one needs them?
What does you instruction manual tell you about possible overdraft problems? We need the head of PE engineering to visit out forum to resolve this problem
Sorry didnt mean to yell...You guys are so wise. thanks for the help, I think I will try the door tighting adjustment first, and chech back later. Now that you mention it I do feel a difference when latching the door, like its a bit easier to latch than when the unit was brand new, I also think I was overdoing it with the biobricks. I can get a 18-20hr burn when I cram 27 bricks into the unit but it gets a bit crowded when the bricks heat up due to thier expansion also, not to mention the air baffle gets VERY hot almost red hot. I think about 12-15 biobricks is plenty for a 10-12hour burn time. I will also try the other tests, cuz I do see some black stuff forming on the edges of the glass door. Thanks again guys.
Gunner
New Member
Ok Mr. Burn, your burning bio-bricks that changes things. I have never used them so can't comment on how they behave. Without temps it is hard to give any advice tho.
Gunner
New Member
elkimmeg said:
Elk, there is no problem for PE to resolve. My chimney draws to hard for my liking, nothing to do with the stove. I have spoke to my dealer and to PE directly and they said I could install the damper no problem but almost all but a few installations are fine without them.
The stove has never been overfired or been glowing red etc. etc. PE said there is no problem in running a summit at 800 stovetop continuosly and an occasional spike of 850-900 is fine(temps taken center stovetop directly over secondary burn chamber)
I have 22' of chimney and I'm on a small hill surrounded by fields, the winds are incredible...everything out side has to be nailed down.LOL
I will install the damper wed I hope, and will let you know.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
I am thinking you guys got had LOL.
27 & 15 or so bio bricks? IF this is true, theres your over fire problem right there.
Thats like stacking full of pallet wood.
I still think this is someone playing a joke, but if not......Add more regular splits of WOOD, LARGE ones at night, and only a couple bio bricks.
Dollar bill test as mentioned is the first thing to do, adjust as needed.
27 bio bricks, that would melt any stove. Sheeh
I don't know the measurements of Bio bricks, but I doubt you can put 27 in any stove this size.
This can't be for real. I still think you guys been had.
On a side note, I have never had any problems after packing her full for the night. It might start slow once in a while to get them charred, but as the splits in the center burn, it creates its own air paths.
The Summit IS the Harley of stoves *grins* No ducking, no hiding, bring it!
27 & 15 or so bio bricks? IF this is true, theres your over fire problem right there.
Thats like stacking full of pallet wood.
I still think this is someone playing a joke, but if not......Add more regular splits of WOOD, LARGE ones at night, and only a couple bio bricks.
Dollar bill test as mentioned is the first thing to do, adjust as needed.
27 bio bricks, that would melt any stove. Sheeh
I don't know the measurements of Bio bricks, but I doubt you can put 27 in any stove this size.
This can't be for real. I still think you guys been had.
On a side note, I have never had any problems after packing her full for the night. It might start slow once in a while to get them charred, but as the splits in the center burn, it creates its own air paths.
The Summit IS the Harley of stoves *grins* No ducking, no hiding, bring it!
I'm not joking....just young and stupid! So biobricks are only about 6"X 4" X2". so when the stove is empty there is room for many of them. Hey, now I know not to put so many in.....and my door is a bit more snug... and HEARTH.COM WORKS. So thanks again fellas' I have alot to learn so i'll be back!
Hog I never mentioned this but another causalty of kids in college cost me my 52 Indian chief ( my wife never liked it in the first place) I had it 75% finished and had most of the parts to complete it it was a fine ride just needed the finnishing touches but College tuition kicked in. I never could free up the monies needed to finish all the projects here.
I lost all the toys the 1971 LT1 corvette the 1964.5 Mustang and the 1966 Mustang GT fastback
Ducking If I still had that Indian it would be magazine cover condition. I have only riden a bike or two since. In my days I had some decent bikes including a Norton Comando
BSA 450 scrambler some hondas but never had a harley The way things are going here I'm still supporting two kids, well after college and just making ends meet. I doubt I will ever rebuild anything clasic again. My wife woke me up today because the garage door would not open My next project is to fiq gure out why the spring let go and to re attach it with all the cabeling.
I think it burned out my garage door opener. I hope there was thermo protection, so that I can re set it and it is ok
I lost all the toys the 1971 LT1 corvette the 1964.5 Mustang and the 1966 Mustang GT fastback
Ducking If I still had that Indian it would be magazine cover condition. I have only riden a bike or two since. In my days I had some decent bikes including a Norton Comando
BSA 450 scrambler some hondas but never had a harley The way things are going here I'm still supporting two kids, well after college and just making ends meet. I doubt I will ever rebuild anything clasic again. My wife woke me up today because the garage door would not open My next project is to fiq gure out why the spring let go and to re attach it with all the cabeling.
I think it burned out my garage door opener. I hope there was thermo protection, so that I can re set it and it is ok
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
elkimmeg said:
Damn shame to let all that go Elk!
I have 1 son in college at this point, he just started and has 2 grants and a loan. He refuses to get a job, only ever held two for about a couple months each.
I told him I would be glad to help, WHEN he shows hes serious and can do some things for himself. I am NOT giving a ton of cash which I don't have to start wit, unless he shows he is serious and going to stick it out. Past experience has brought me to this reasoning. My folks & I chipped in for his car. So far he pissed away the extra cash he had. When Ins. renewal comes up, hes on his own. I want him to be a survivor, and he isn't. I don't mind helping, but he has to help himself most of all.
I have a 6 car garage with no concrete on the floor yet. After I get that done one of these years, I'll get some openers maybe
I haven't seen a Norton since I was in my early teens. Great bikes. Its a shame Indian could stay revived this time around, I personally think they got too pricey too fast without establishing themselves again.
To the other gentleman's comment on QC. Every company has problems here & there, especially with new designs & setups. I had to replace a rocker cover gasket set and a master cylinder since new in 98, thats pretty damn good as far as I am concerned. Just replaced the battery. 98-2007 you do the math, got every penny out of that battery
For the large manufacturers of bikes, for me Harley is the Summit nuff said. Since the new plant opening, values aren't holding as they used to, but Harley still holds value better than any other mass produced bike out there. BMW's close second I would think. The Asian cruiser wannabees, yes are nice. But lose value like a rock. Its a matter of taste & opinion is all. My next bike will be a crate bike that I can build myself. After that, might build everything I can from ground up.Thats a lonnngggg time off though. For now I ride my trusty 98 Softail and should any repairs be needed, I can do them. Carb= user repair friendly
No dyno needed here to even change pipes.
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Mr.Burns said:
Ok then, well now you know, ease up with the mega bio brick loads. I bet you find your problem disappears. Load her with good ol fashioned wood and a few bio bricks, you'll be set then. from what I remember with other members experimenting with bio bricks, 4 should be tops and that was hot. spread out the use, they will not over fire the stove then, and they will last a while more before time to purchase more. Wish I could get them around here, would like to check them out.
For the squimish readers read no further Today I was working replacing a garage door spring. this is not a DIY job but one that you plan for.
There are real dangers working with springs of this kind. I know of a guy that had to cut two of his fingers off because he got trapped and caught.
he was working restoring a garage door spring he had it extended and thought it was secured witha c clamp while positioned on a 6' step ladder.
Two of his fingers got trapped in the spring when the c-clamp let go. He had only a set of plyers and a few wrenches and a utility knife in his tool belt. He could not reach it tool box.
his only choice was to use the utility knife and cut off his fingers to free his hand. Playing around with garage door springs is not the a job for a novice.
Knowing the dangers I I was able to secure the spring using a threaded rod and thghtening the nut to draw up the tension. Unfortunately that was the easy part.
When the garage door opener did not lift the door, it jumped position in the chain. It took 3 attempts of trial and error to finally get the righ position of the chain. Eandh time it had to be removed and rotated then re-tentioned into place. This too is a dangereous proposition real easy to jam a finger in the chain and sprokets. But It id working now. fortunately the garage door opener was thermal protected and only needed to be reset It took 4 hours for what looked like a simple job. but it works and I can still count to 10 with my fingers
There are real dangers working with springs of this kind. I know of a guy that had to cut two of his fingers off because he got trapped and caught.
he was working restoring a garage door spring he had it extended and thought it was secured witha c clamp while positioned on a 6' step ladder.
Two of his fingers got trapped in the spring when the c-clamp let go. He had only a set of plyers and a few wrenches and a utility knife in his tool belt. He could not reach it tool box.
his only choice was to use the utility knife and cut off his fingers to free his hand. Playing around with garage door springs is not the a job for a novice.
Knowing the dangers I I was able to secure the spring using a threaded rod and thghtening the nut to draw up the tension. Unfortunately that was the easy part.
When the garage door opener did not lift the door, it jumped position in the chain. It took 3 attempts of trial and error to finally get the righ position of the chain. Eandh time it had to be removed and rotated then re-tentioned into place. This too is a dangereous proposition real easy to jam a finger in the chain and sprokets. But It id working now. fortunately the garage door opener was thermal protected and only needed to be reset It took 4 hours for what looked like a simple job. but it works and I can still count to 10 with my fingers
Roospike
New Member
WOW , Fully loaded with bio bricks . The Summit is max rated at a whopping 97,000 BTU with CORDWOOD , can you imagine what the max would be with tightly packed bio bricks!?
Luckily the stove is fully robot welded and is thick steel , I'm not worried about the stove but beware of the chimney pipe my brother.
Glad to see the standard door adjustment got you fixed up. Another happy camper.
Luckily the stove is fully robot welded and is thick steel , I'm not worried about the stove but beware of the chimney pipe my brother.
Glad to see the standard door adjustment got you fixed up. Another happy camper.
Roospike
New Member
From BioBricks instructions:
CAUTION: BioBricks are a very dry all wood product. Use only in well monitored stove or fireplace and control air flow to prevent overheating and extend burn times. Do Not Overfill.
Guestimating 8600 btus/ lb, then 27 blocks = 232,200 btus
FWIW, I never did get the stack info answered on this stove, but I think door leaks are a red herring.
CAUTION: BioBricks are a very dry all wood product. Use only in well monitored stove or fireplace and control air flow to prevent overheating and extend burn times. Do Not Overfill.
Guestimating 8600 btus/ lb, then 27 blocks = 232,200 btus
FWIW, I never did get the stack info answered on this stove, but I think door leaks are a red herring.
haha wont be doin that again! It was cool to see the PE crank for 20hrs straight though. And yes I'm burning much much better now with smaller loads and no leaks in door. I'm gettin 7 trees dropped today, so will be switchin back to good ole wood for next year anyway. So what do I look for in a log splitter, thinking I should just rent one for a day or 2. again I'm clueless so any sugestions would be helpful. Thanks again Bros
Hogwildz
Minister of Fire
Mr.Burns said:
Around here a log splitter is about $90.00 per day to rent. At Home Peehole a Ryobi sells for $299.00. 3 rentals and you almost payed for a new splitter.
I bought one, and am glad I did.
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
elkimmeg said:
FWIW, If it's a Sears unit, they have an internal thermal switch that will self reset after the unit cools down - I found this out when adjusting ours - if you keep going up and down with the door the unit eventually overheats and trips out for a while. Also it seems the failure mode is the plastic gears in the gearbox strip out - it is a common enough failure mode that the guys at the Sears parts place start reaching for that box as soon as you say "garage door opener" OTOH, the part is relatively cheap <$20 as I recall, for a complete kit, takes about an hour to install.
Pay attention to the adjustment instructions that come with the unit - according to the guy in the parts place, the transmissions strip because most people don't have the torque sensors adjusted right, and put to much pressure on the gears when something sticks. If you adjust the sensors properly, the unit will quit without damage if the door doesn't operate properly. This is a pain in it's own turn, but at least it doesn't cost parts to fix.
That said, I think the Sears chain drive unit is a decent opener, and represents a good value for the money, especially if you get it on sale - which it is quite often. I think a lot of what Sears sells is crap, these openers are an exception.
I've also had springs let go on me, and was told that usually it's just a case of metal fatigue and age... I believe current code says to run an extra length of cable THROUGH the length of the spring from where it attaches to the door tracks to the wall by the door - this is so that if the spring lets go, it will be confined in where it can travel, so it won't be as likely to do serious damage. This is what I've been told by a garage door repair guy, I don't know if it's actually in the codes, or if it's just "good practice" - either way I think it's a good thing to do.
Otherwise, the garage repair guy we had work on our door (Once, I fix it myself now) said that it was a good idea to give all the pivoting bits a shot of spray lube once every month or two, and to occasionally go over all the hinges with a ratchet to make sure they are all tight. Another common point of failure are the pulleys where the cables wrap around, if the door starts going up and down erratically, they are often the problem.
Another trick that I found is a cure if your opener seems to "eat" light bulbs... Ours went through bulbs at a fantastic rate, including so-called "door opener bulbs" and "vibration resistant" bulbs. I decided to separate the bulbs from the opener. I got a screw in "plug adapter" that lets you plug a 2 wire extension cord into a light socket, and a cheap 18/2 lamp extension cord. I put the adapter into one of the light sockets on the opener, plugged the extension cord into it, and zip-tied the cord to the opener mounting brackets, leading it up to the ceiling next to the opener. I screwed a metal octagonal box to the ceiling, and attatched a standard bulb socket to the box, I ran the extension cord into the box, cut off the female end and wired it to the light socket. I then put a "Y" adapter into the socket and screwed a pair of assorted bulbs into it (I want two bulbs for redundancy, and make them different sizes and ages so they are very unlikely to both burn out at the same time) . This gave me a light that was controlled by the opener, but was totally isolated from the opener vibrations. I used to go through at least one bulb / month when I was putting them in the opener, but I have YET to change a single bulb since I made this setup about four YEARS ago.... AFAIK it is within code, and it is well worth it in terms of saving the headache of changing bulbs, not to mention the expense!
I have also heard of people using this type of setup to control a trickle style battery charger to keep vehicle batteries charged when not in use.
Hope this is helpful,
Gooserider
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
elkimmeg said:
Agreed, garage door springs are NASTY items - you should try the ones on our double wide wooden door that are rated for 300lbs EACH.... (The biggest springs you can get in most H/W stores or Home Despot are about 100lbs each...)
I find they are easiest to work on when the door is UP as this relaxes the spring as much as it gets. If I need to put tension on the spring, I think the best technique is to use a "come-a-long" ratcheting type winch that you can really hook into the spring and the mounting points.
Like cutting wood, this is the kind of job where one shouldn't work alone, or if you must keep a phone on you to dial 911 with....
Gooserider
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