Progress Hybrid: Need Help!

[fire_man]

Anyone have a picture of this screen? I wonder if it's the same size mesh as the new scoops in the other stoves? The cat manufacture recommended this screen for the s/s cat because of the possibility of ash build up. I've been playing around with my scoops and it seems the screen has such small holes it can easily plug up in a couple weeks of low cat burns. Higher burn rates don't seem to clog the screen as much. If this is the case you guys are going to have to check this screen more often if your burning low and slow all the time. Maybe Woodstock should consider a larger screen size for all their stoves?

I am still trying to figure out what "burning low and slow" means for the Progress. If you engage the cat when the stovetop is much about 250 F, it's hard not to get those secondaries going kind of quickly. If you engage too low, the cat might stall and get Howllowhill's smoke cloud.

An earlier thread by someone claimed WS said you could load on a bed of hot coals and imediately engage the cat. This would prevent the secondaries from kicking in, and is supposed to give a true "cat burn".
But would this stall the cat for a while and cause a Waulie screen clog?

 

[binko]

That's what Tom at Woodstock had recommended to me in order to control secondary combustion. I tried it however the cat stalled out and smoke was spewing out of the chimney. You do need to get the fire going actively after a reload in order for the cat to re-activate. I was grumbling quite a bit initially about an overactive and uncontrolled secondary burn however I am fortunately well past that as well as the smoky smell issues. I do have a flue damper in my line as well and close it off for long burns as well as closing the air control. As far as the screen plugging up, I have looked at it thru the glass with a flashlight and say that it is less than 5% obstructed after 1 month of near continuous use. Based upon everyone's comments, when it does come time to clean I plan to bring in my air hose from the compressor and just blow it out. I realize that this is not available to everyone nor should we have to be going to extremes like this, but until they offer a fix, I will deal with it.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Could it make a difference at what temperature the stove is on the reloads. My thinking is that you load cool wood on hot ashes (which also introduces cool air into that firebox)....but it very well could make a difference in how many hot coals there are. For example, in the Fireview there is a huge difference on reloads. I can reload with stovetop, say, at 250 and the wood lights off pretty fast but if I engage the cat too quickly, then the cat does stall. However, if there is a large coal bed with stove top temperature at 300 or more, then I can engage the cat within 5 minutes or less and all is well.

No doubt there is some difference in flue temperatures because with the horizontal flue, I think the flue temperature would read higher sooner (heat rises). Therefore, sometimes I can not engage the cat even with a 400 degree flue temperature. If I wait to 500 then all is well.

 

[binko]

I agree with Fire God. When I reload, I take into account how hot the stove is and how much embers/hot coals remain. I usually can get back into cat mode within 5 minutes.

 

[mike8937]

can all of this be avoided by simple waiting an extra 10 minutes to allow the temps to get a little higher? i am waiting for my my progress to arrive any day now. after all the work i am currently doing just to bring my house up to code(its a miracle the house hasnt already burned down from the complete lack of clearance everywhere) i think i would be pretty upset if i couldnt be running this thing 24-7. it has been unseasonably warm here and i wonder if these problems are simply from everyone trying to run the stove too low.

 

[HotCoals]

can all of this be avoided by simple waiting an extra 10 minutes to allow the temps to get a little higher? i am waiting for my my progress to arrive any day now. after all the work i am currently doing just to bring my house up to code(its a miracle the house hasnt already burned down from the complete lack of clearance everywhere) i think i would be pretty upset if i couldnt be running this thing 24-7. it has been unseasonably warm here and i wonder if these problems are simply from everyone trying to run the stove too low.

Buyers seem to be under the impression as I would be that you can run in cat mode for a long slow burn in the warmer periods.
But what seems to happen is that the tubes fire off and put out to much heat.
Not only that but burning the tubes would steal food from the cat.
But yet some seem really happy with the unit..so who knows.

 

[fire_man]

I'm not sure how the BK compares, but even with the FV I never was able to run the stove 100% of the time with absolutely no secondary flame. The secondaries always kicked in once the stovetop temp ran up near 450 - 500F. The difference with the Progress is the secondaries are more jet like, rather than those rolling flames above the wood in the FV. Another difference was the FV secondaries would quit much sooner, after less than an hour, but the Progress keeps going for 2-3 hours.

 

[Woody Stover]

Anyone have a picture of this screen? I wonder if it's the same size mesh as the new scoops in the other stoves? The cat manufacture recommended this screen for the s/s cat because of the possibility of ash build up. I've been playing around with my scoops and it seems the screen has such small holes it can easily plug up in a couple weeks of low cat burns. Higher burn rates don't seem to clog the screen as much. If this is the case you guys are going to have to check this screen more often if your burning low and slow all the time. Maybe Woodstock should consider a larger screen size for all their stoves?

I guess I don't understand how the screen would clog more on a low burn. The same exhaust is being pulled through the screen (which is before the cat) regardless of how hot the cat is. Maybe when the exhaust is moving through the screen more slowly (when the air is cut way back) more ash has a chance to cling to the screen?
I've had the steel cat/screen in my stove for several weeks. I can see a little buildup on the each screen element but I wouldn't call it "clogged" at this point, and there doesn't appear to be a big difference in the volume of air moving through the stove weather the bypass is open or closed.

As far as the screen plugging up, I have looked at it thru the glass with a flashlight and say that it is less than 5% obstructed after 1 month of near continuous use. Based upon everyone's comments, when it does come time to clean I plan to bring in my air hose from the compressor and just blow it out. I realize that this is not available to everyone nor should we have to be going to extremes like this, but until they offer a fix, I will deal with it.

I'd be careful with the compressed air. They advise against blowing directly through the cat, saying that it's possible to blow the metals right off the substrate.

At any rate, this screen issue doesn't sound like anything that can't be worked around fairly easily, once you figure out an efficient way to do it...

 

[binko]

I agree abut blowing compressed air directly thru the cat. I was referring to blowing the air thru the screen itself from below (taking the air hose from the back of the window area and aiming up thru the screen).
Another option may be to get away from such a fine screen and go with something that has larger openings. Perhaps more fly ash will get thru toward the cat, but the cat is FAR easier to access and clean in this stove than the screen is.

 

[Waulie]

Sorry I have been participating in my own thread. I tweaked my back and have been laid up the last couple days.

What someone said about a stalling cat contributing to the screen build up was interesting. Just this morning, I noticed my wife loaded up the stove and already had the cat engaged after only 5 minutes or so. The stove top was still reading 260 when she loaded. I explained to her that you need to let the new load char up a bit before engaging regardless of the stove top temp. I know I had told her that before, but she had forgotten and was engaging the cat whenever the stove top was 250 or higher. Since she typically does one load a day, we may have had our share or cat stalls over the last month. I'm not sure I udnerstand how this would contribute to the screen gunk, but it might be our problem.

When I do a low cat burn, I do let the load get going well before engaging. I usually engaged with the draft a bit more than half closed. I keep nothing down until I'm completely closed or just above. I've been loading about 60% full. With this method, I do not get the jet-like secondaries, just the occasional, floating, lazy secodaries. Stove temp peaks around 400 to 450 and I still get around 10 hour burns.

 

[Slow1]

What someone said about a stalling cat contributing to the screen build up was interesting. Just this morning, I noticed my wife loaded up the stove and already had the cat engaged after only 5 minutes or so. The stove top was still reading 260 when she loaded. I explained to her that you need to let the new load char up a bit before engaging regardless of the stove top temp. I know I had told her that before, but she had forgotten and was engaging the cat whenever the stove top was 250 or higher. Since she typically does one load a day, we may have had our share or cat stalls over the last month. I'm not sure I udnerstand how this would contribute to the screen gunk, but it might be our problem.

A possible theory may be that if you are tossing a bunch of fresh smoke at the (relatively) cold screen it may be condensing on it (read creosote). This will then burn off once the stove warms up, but what is left behind is ash. Look at the inside surfaces (corners etc) of your stove and you are likely to see buildup of ash that I imagine come from the same process. At least I see it in my stove. This probably doesn't build up much each time but I could see it adding up over time...