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Quadrafire Castile Experiment

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by tjnamtiw, Nov 28, 2010.

  1. thz123

    thz123 Member

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    I used a torch to bend mine, they bent like butter, very easy. Then I "aligned" the spring ends using a vise. I will try to put them in tonight. When I tried to insert them yesterday the tubes were good and hot. Last night I shined a flashlight into the tube and I could see where the ends of the springs were digging into the tube. It doesn't take long for the spring to get hot, since I had to get a pair of leather gloves on in order to pull the spring back out. It was hot after only a few minutes. I hope they go in easy now.

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  2. jackiec

    jackiec Member

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    I ordered 3, 36" springs today for Santa Fe insert. Am I correct in leaving tubes 1 and 10 empty? It looks like the best way to insert them is by taking the grill bars off in the front. Anyone try that? Santa Fe does a nice job but if I had to it over again, I would treat the purchase like I was buying a TV.....Get the biggest one possible that fits.....
  3. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Yea, I did my Sante Fe too. You have to take the darn grate off the front. For some reason, it's in two pieces. The top single bar comes off first and then the bottom two screws release the rest of it. You'll find that you have to bend the springs like a banana to get them in but they go in OK. No special reason that I didn't put any in the outer two tubes other than I didn't think it would make much difference since little air comes through them but you will have the extra springs so put them in and let's see what happens! :eek:)

    I agree on the size. If I had it to do over, I would get the 1200 and try to jam it into my little opening.
  4. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like you are good to go! Tonight's the night! I saw a night light with that saying on it!! Should have bought it.
  5. jackiec

    jackiec Member

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    If you could not measure the temp. would you notice the extra heat?
  6. thz123

    thz123 Member

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    Well they didn't fit into my Castile. I tried tube 9 and 6. They would only go in half way. Then I had to literally pull them out, the stove moved forward when I pulled. Yes I pushed, arched, and turned at the same time. I am worried if I force them in they will never come out. Its not me either, I am good at putting big things in a small hole, thats why I paid child support for 10+ years...LOL

    My tubes taper in inside the tube @ about the 3 inch mark. They went in further than last night but I could only get them in 6 inches. Then they were totally stuck. I measured the outside diameter of the spring and its correct at 1.25". I did bend both ends all the way to the center and the outsides are alligned. Do they sell these springs with a slightly smaller diameter?

    If yours go in easy and come out easy, your tubes are larger than mine...What could I be doing wrog?
  7. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Yes, my tubes taper at the beginning too. I almost bought the wrong size! Are you turning the spring CLOCKWISE as you insert it? That is the key. I can't believe they would put a different size tube in some models.................. although they are made in China........................ By turning clockwise, you are actually winding up the spring and reducing its diameter so it goes in easier. Without turning, it's not going in.
  8. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    IMHO, yes you can. I also see that I am overshooting my setpoint on my thermostat by an extra degree which means to me that it is putting out heat faster and there is more mass transferring heat after the fire is out.
  9. thz123

    thz123 Member

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    Yes, I am turning it clockwise, and it gets really stuck. Tonight when I first put it in I thought great their going to go in, but then they got stuck. When it stuck I couldn't turn it in or out. I was using my hand to put it in, not a needle nose. I will try again, but it really scares me that it would never come out again or it may get stuck half way for good. How hard is it for you to take yours out? Maybe a needle nose pliers would do the trick? I really feel like a Da.
  10. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Oh, you've got to use more than your hands to put them in! I use a large pair of pliers to get some torque on the spring. It's really not that hard to get them in if you use the right tools. By hand I imagine it would be tough. Needle nose MIGHT work but I would go for something a little more hefty. I don't mean to make it sound like you need to force them in. it's just that you have got to wind up the spring a little bit and you can't do that by hand.
  11. B-Mod

    B-Mod Member

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    I used regular pliers to put mine in. I would do it with the stove on as the tubes will be hot. Mine fit in pretty easy..........
  12. Countryboymo

    Countryboymo Feeling the Heat

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    I received a call back on the turbulators and without a decent sized order he would have to cut a piece of stock shorter than they usually do as small as the job would be. He said it would probably be in the 250.00 range unless they found some scrap stainless to use. He told me to call him back on a multiple order but I am not sure if it would be worth it.
  13. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Well, that sucks! But not totally shocking. I guess it's time to do some mocking up to prove the concept!
  14. skidozer

    skidozer Member

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    does he have any longer ones that could be cut in half or cut down.
  15. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    jackiec got me thinking about turbulators versus the springs. I was originally thinking of using the turbulators as a replacement for the springs; however, since the springs are actually increasing the heated surface area, wouldn't it make sense to put turbulators INSIDE of the springs? I doubt that the turbulators will increase flow resistance by any appreciable amount so maybe that's the way to go. What do you all think?
  16. smalltown

    smalltown Minister of Fire

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    tjnamtiw I was cleaning my Castile freestanding last evening, and was thinking about the springs you inserted into the heat exchanger tubes. How long are the tubes?. Looking at mine they appear to go back about 12" then turn downward and drop lower out of sight? Are your springs about 12" in length?

    Just re-read your post from the start and see that your cutting them about 9" in length. Still I wonder how far the tubes go in total length.
  17. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    yea, I wondered that my self. I did some probing and ran into resistance at about 10" so I figured I'd make them a little shorter so I wouldn't block the flow as it made the turn. Someone mentioned that the tubes are cast and I thought that, perhaps, they were cast into a manifold at the back so I didn't want to screw with that either. so far so good. I've been searching for some way to put some fins on the areas of the tubes that don't get swept by the pull rods. Too bad they aren't copper! Besides having 4 times the transfer efficiency of aluminum, I could also sweat on some fins easily.
  18. smalltown

    smalltown Minister of Fire

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    Just thinking out loud here!
    After looking down the tubes with a flashlight and seeing how dirty they are I have been trying to figure a way to clean them. I imagine that the dirt interferes with the heat transfer? Just now I thought what if I used a shotgun bore cleaning swab, and run it down the tubes by hand or in a drill bit:maybe it would fit on the flexible rods from my stove pipe cleaning kit, and go beyond that rear corner, and down?

    Next spring (if I wait that long) when I do my final cleaning and remove the convection fan assembly I am going to place a mirror under the stove and look upwards to see if the other end of the tube assembly is visible. If I can a product called a "BoreSnake" could be pulled thorough from the bottom back of the stove through too the front grill.
  19. ablejoy

    ablejoy Feeling the Heat

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    smalltown
    How about a bottle type brush I just tried my dryer brush tapered and worked good. Never looked down those tubes they were dirty.
    The tube is 9" long from end to end plus 1"gap at the end = 10" total
  20. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Wow, I wouldn't have expected them to be that dirty. A bottle brush is a great idea. Tomorrow I have got to find my bore scope which is a camera on a flexible shaft that puts a picture on a small screen. Should be interesting if I can find it!
  21. ablejoy

    ablejoy Feeling the Heat

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    Brush I used pulled a lot dust out, I am going to hit the tubes with compressed air tomorrow.

    The bore scope pictures should be interesting to see.

    Attached Files:

  22. Countryboymo

    Countryboymo Feeling the Heat

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    I use windex on a old piece of sock and tape it to a small rod. If it does get loose I just reach in with a wood bit that has a threaded point and catch it and pull it back out. I did snag a piece on the drill bit and use the drill and rag to clean it which started to really polish the pipe which I don't think is the hot ticket. I also thought about searching for a flap disk sander that would fit in the tubes snug. I would think an 80 to 120 grit spiral in and out each tube would help create a touch of turbulence. I blew the shop vac into each hole and WOW did the dust bunnies ever fly. A leaf blower would do good this way also. I still think a thin piece of copper or stainless with a nice gentle twist sitting in the tube would make the most difference.
  23. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    I agree with the last part, for sure. That would definitely help.
  24. tjnamtiw

    tjnamtiw Minister of Fire

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    Hey THZ123, did you ever get your springs installed?????

    I got my Ridgid SeeSnake out and took a look down the tubes. They don't curve downward but, instead, end in a chamber or plenum. I'm trying to experiment to find a decent way to record what I see and then put it on youtube with a link here. Pretty interesting.
  25. B-Mod

    B-Mod Member

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    Did you ever get any readings with your air flow thingy?

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