Question regarding epa stove and chimney liner

[bhollar55]

Hey guys, I just bought a new epa certified Summer's heat wood furnace, made by Englander. I bought the stove to replace an older B&M stove that was showing some age. Not knowing that epa stoves require a much smaller flue, I'm experiencing issues with it not drawing very well thus keeping a fire going is a struggle. My masonry exterior chimney flue is a 8x13 and the stove isn't getting the flue hot enough to create much of a draft. Does anyone have any ideas in how to help with this, other than dropping in a 6" stainless liner? Is installing a new SS 6" liner a difficult or expensive job?

 

[begreen]

Is that 8x13" ID? If so, the current chimney has an area of 104 sq in. vs 6" round's 29 sq in. That is not going to work. An insulated stainless liner will make a big difference in draft as well as being easier to clean. The cost will be relative to the length and quality of the liner. This is infrastructure. Investing a bit more up front will pay off over the long term. The chimney will need to be completely clean before installing the liner.

Does the chimney have a tile liner or is it unlined?

From the manual:
The area of a 6 inch (152.4 mm) diameter flue collar is 28.87 square inches (186.25 sq. cm); therefore, the connector pipe should be at least a 6 inch (152.4 mm) diameter pipe and the chimney liner must be at least 28.87 square inches (186.25 sq. cm) but no greater than 84.8 square inches (547.09 sq. cm).

 

[Eureka]

You definitely need a 6” stainless liner

 

[jetsam]

You are going to have a mess of creosote in there. Sweep it well before dropping the liner.

Liners are never cheap- they can cost more than the stove if you have a cheap stove and a tall flue.

Dropping a liner can be pretty easy or much harder. If it's a straight shot and there's plenty of room, you are good. Check for clay tiles, old dampers, and obstructions in the smoke shelf area.

If you have a clay liner in there, there may not be room for an insulated 6" liner. Measure the inner diameter on the short side and see what you have.

 

[bhollar55]

You are going to have a mess of creosote in there. Sweep it well before dropping the liner.

Liners are never cheap- they can cost more than the stove if you have a cheap stove and a tall flue.

Dropping a liner can be pretty easy or much harder. If it's a straight shot and there's plenty of room, you are good. Check for clay tiles, old dampers, and obstructions in the smoke shelf area.

If you have a clay liner in there, there may not be room for an insulated 6" liner. Measure the inner diameter on the short side and see what you have.

It’s a 8x12” ID masonry liner that’s perfectly straight and built 3 years ago. Had a sweep look through it and it’s pretty clear. How does one go about making the 90 degree turn into the thimble? Use a tee?

 

[bhollar55]

Is that 8x13" ID? If so, the current chimney has an area of 104 sq in. vs 6" round's 29 sq in. That is not going to work. An insulated stainless liner will make a big difference in draft as well as being easier to clean. The cost will be relative to the length and quality of the liner. This is infrastructure. Investing a bit more up front will pay off over the long term. The chimney will need to be completely clean before installing the liner.

Does the chimney have a tile liner or is it unlined?

From the manual:
The area of a 6 inch (152.4 mm) diameter flue collar is 28.87 square inches (186.25 sq. cm); therefore, the connector pipe should be at least a 6 inch (152.4 mm) diameter pipe and the chimney liner must be at least 28.87 square inches (186.25 sq. cm) but no greater than 84.8 square inches (547.09 sq. cm).

It's 9x13 OD and 8x12 ID, and does have a tile liner.

 

[begreen]

The liner has a special tee end piece that drops down with the tee snout removed. The tee snout is inserted through the thimble and attached to the tee body. This short video will show the process.

 

[bhollar55]

The liner has a special tee end piece that drops down with the tee snout removed. The tee snout is inserted through the thimble and attached to the tee body. This short video will show the process.

Thanks for the info. Going to order the Rockford Rockflex kit and insulation kit as well.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the info. Going to order the Rockford Rockflex kit and insulation kit as well.

You are going to have trouble fitting an insulated 6" round liner down your chimney. If it actually is 8" inside you may be able to but most are not

 

[begreen]

You are going to have trouble fitting an insulated 6" round liner down your chimney. If it actually is 8" inside you may be able to but most are not

Yes, I was concerned about that because of the mortar ooze at the tile joints. What do you suggest? Slightly ovalizing or a different liner altogether?

 

[bhollar55]

You are going to have trouble fitting an insulated 6" round liner down your chimney. If it actually is 8" inside you may be able to but most are not

I’ve read that it’s not necessarily needed if you’ve got a tile liner.

 

[bholler]

Yes, I was concerned about that because of the mortar ooze at the tile joints. What do you suggest? Slightly ovalizing or a different liner altogether?

Either ovalizing or tile removal. We typically remove the tile.

 

[bholler]

I’ve read that it’s not necessarily needed if you’ve got a tile liner.

The existence and condition of a clay liner has no bearing on the requirement to insulate. What matters is clearance to combustibles from the outside of the masony structure. For an internal chimney you need 2" of clearance from the outside of the chimney to combustibles and you need 1" for external chimneys. Even if you have that clearance the performance benefits of insulating are well worth it.

 

[bhollar55]

I was completely wrong about the size of the clay liner. Going off of the builders memory. I measured 6”x11” ID

 

[bholler]

I was completely wrong about the size of the clay liner. Going off of the builders memory. I measured 6”x11” ID

That is what I thought. You will need oval or to break out the clay

 

[blacktail]

Having a bhollar and a bholler here is going to break the internet.

 

[HomeinPA]

I’ve read that it’s not necessarily needed if you’ve got a tile liner.

Your specific need appears to be related to the size of your flue as opposed to the size of the exhaust. To make an insulated liner fit you must remove the terracotta. That's where you either need to buy a bunch of specific tools or get a professional. Unless the liner is damaged or missing mortar in the interior joints it should work for your stove strictly based on size. There are other factors to consider thought

 

[bhollar55]

Having a bhollar and a bholler here is going to break the internet.

Lol

 

[begreen]

DuraLiner makes a pre-insulated 6" oval liner that is made for this type of installation.
http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6

 

[ryanwc]

It's 9x13 OD and 8x12 ID, and does have a tile liner.

I'm relieved to find that you had the dimensions wrong. Reading the original dimensions had me wondering how your outside dimensions could be just an inch bigger than inside. Thought maybe your builder used Legos.

 

[bhollar55]

I'm relieved to find that you had the dimensions wrong. Reading the original dimensions had me wondering how your outside dimensions could be just an inch bigger than inside. Thought maybe your builder used Legos.

Right! Yeah lesson learned, don’t ask, go see for yourself.

 

[bhollar55]

Any thoughts on if this would help my situation or not?

 

[bholler]

Any thoughts on if this would help my situation or not?

No no no. Don't do it

 

[kennyp2339]

cousins?

 

[bhollar55]

No no no. Don't do it

So you think I could take a standard 6” round flexible stainless flue and oval it to fit inside my 6x11”? I’ve got some mortar that’s squirted in the inside.