Received 2nd cord of wood and came up short.

[JPapiPE]

I did receive my second of 4 cord of wood yesterday and stacked it all in 90 degree heat and humidity today. The amount was 18.62 cubic feet shortof a full cord so I called the seller. He came by and tried to prove that the original cord was over sized.He proceeded to explain his math calculations to me; armed with a calculator, pencil and raft of paper. Once I looked at his calculations it was apparent that he had been using 1.4 feet as a multiplier for a 16" cut log.I tried for an hour to explain that feet and inches needed to changed to a decimal equivalent,ergo, 1.33 feet. We went round and round and he insisted that when figured in inches the amount came to more than 128 cubic feet. I was very patient with the guy, an 18 year old young man. I tryed to explain that base 10 equations needed to be put into base ten terms. Apparently he , his partner and his father had been using the same formula to calculate cord wood. Unfortunately the poor guy was still baffeled as to why 4" on his tape didn't equal 0.4 as a multiplier. So I tried to give him a mini math lesson with 1/4's, 1/2's, 1/3's, etc. It was very frustrating.
I did tell him to check with a 3rd party that was somewhat conversant in math. He just came by to complete the missing section of my 2nd cord. He was still saying how his calculations added to more that 128 cubic feet, until I pointed out to him that the start of the pile was 4" high and it tapered down to 3-1/2' at the end. The pile is 26' in length. I then tried to explain the process of interpolation, but the poor boy was lost again. I told him I would buy no more wood from him if he thought I was taking advantage of him...because if I was to sell out it wouldn't be for the price of a few feet of cordwood. He finally said I was much smarter in math so he would take my word for it. Again I said no, and that he should understand the precision and honesty of simple math. He did finally admit that I was getting a square deal for the offered price. I guess I got my fair deal, but I wonder if other people buying his fire wood will be so lucky.

Just a slice of life

 

[cmonSTART]

Well, hopefully he'll learn. Sad thing is I bet a lot of folks buying wood this year don't really know how much a cord is.

 

[Rockey]

IHe did finally admit that I was getting a square deal for the offered price

Its as suare of a deal as you can expect from round wood and a crooked dealer.

Honestly it sounds like he might be a bit ignorant about math and may not have had intentions on screwing you out of anything but its hard to judge his veracity without meeting him and askling a few questions.

 

[JPapiPE]

Definately Rocky ...I know the boy is challenged and he is just starting out...We were all there at some time I think. I thought it was my job to take the boy to school and I did, but there's nobody home. He's a good kid , just flunked 7th grade math as did his father and business partner. We can't save the world rock , but we can prevent them from taking advantage of us. I still believe in people and think his mistake was accidental... He is my son's age... a mere child who has entered the business field without a clue and I think he will have to learn life's lessons ...the hard way or hopefully a more gentle softer way.

But it is curious that the seller, his father and his business partner never picked up on that mathimatical malapropism. Maybe they are thieves, but I'd like to think that they are just slow country folk. With other strong attributes that perhaps you and I don't have....

I think it's always best to take the moral high road when faced with these types of situations.

 

[Sheepdog]

...they are just slow country folk...

Hmmmmm. Slow country folk? As opposed to what, city slickers "from away"?!? :coolhmm:

-Sheepdog

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Welcome the the club, short cords is my history, and it made me stop burning bought wood two years back..but my new Quad insert will likely force me into buying some more cord wood. I'm still looking for the honest wood dealer in my part of NJ.

The last one I purchased from went to the trouble to spell out 128 cubic feet in his newspaper add, as did he "girl friday" who took the order. When I got it stacked my rough volume measurement came out to about 0.8+ cord. I think what some do is load a dump turck that has been measured so they know how full is 128 cf, then say that's a cord, never mind that the wood in the dump is in a disorganized stack with lots of air space. Stack it, and its about 20% short, all air in the truck.

 

[sinnian]

LOL

I have to laugh Joe. I used to work for your school district, and in fact paint with a bunch of the high school teachers during the summers. Actually one of the guys is one of your high school math teachers who has been teaching there for 37 years and has always lived in the area, another guy is the Tech Ed teacher who has been there for 40 years. I am positive they would know the young man and his family. If you want, PM me his/their name and I should be able to tell you their math IQ and integrity.

Glad things worked out for you though!

Your 'southern' friend (Limerick) ~ Jeff

 

[RedRanger]

yes some of them are all over the map, re and re length of splits etc. and yes, the variation is somewhere between 80% of a cord and 95% of a cord most of the time. I know that the last 2 cords that I bought csd was nicely seasoned though, really nice stuff. but certainly short of a full cord. and I don`t think it`s because they go out of their way to short you? they just don`t bother to do the math. In other words, they are "guesstimating".

It`s a tough way to make a living, and often these are the only skills that some of these people have. The majority of them are independent, small guys, and not like you see in the east, where it is sometimes a big or medium sized business. Out here on the west coast I have found that most give you seasoned wood when you order it, albeit, maybe not a full cord. but still better than being burned by the rascal that promises you ready to burn, when it isn`t.

It just ain`t a perfect world

 

[savageactor7]

That's why I think selling firewood by the face cord makes sense ...a 14" length face cord would be prorated less than a 20" length face cord.

Cause a load of 14" is as big a PITA to a guy like me that burns 20" logs and visa versa. If I actually bought and recieved a true cord of wood when my requirements are 20" I end up with 8" splits. 20+20+8 =48

If I'm paying for 20" splits that's what I expect and Lees-wood co ...who does this for a living was the only poster that sees the wisdom in dealing in face cords. With a face cord you're only interested in 32sq ft DONE! Why make it any harder than it is.

 

[RedRanger]

That's why I think selling firewood by the face cord makes sense ...a 14" length face cord would be prorated less than a 20" length face cord.

Cause a load of 14" is as big a PITA to a guy like me that burns 20" logs and visa versa. If I actually bought and recieved a true cord of wood when my requirements are 20" I end up with 8" splits. 20+20+8 =48

If I'm paying for 20" splits that's what I expect and Lees-wood co ...who does this for a living was the only poster that sees the wisdom in dealing in face cords. With a face cord you're only interested in 32sq ft DONE! Why make it any harder than it is.

Okay Savage you are catching me napping here. Or I ain`t getting your math? 3x32 = 96 cu.ft. not 128. My math is terrible, so you stated sq.feet. did you mean cubic feet?

Anyway, the last stuff I got is more seasoned that the stuff in my woodsheds. ie, tonnes of checkmarks, nice and bone dry. could probably light it up without any kindling so a little undersized doesn`t make me an unhappy camper. Like I stated , hard way to make a buck!!

 

[Jay777]

That's why I think selling firewood by the face cord makes sense ...a 14" length face cord would be prorated less than a 20" length face cord.

Cause a load of 14" is as big a PITA to a guy like me that burns 20" logs and visa versa. If I actually bought and recieved a true cord of wood when my requirements are 20" I end up with 8" splits. 20+20+8 =48

5' x 5' x 5 1/2' will work with a 20" split (20" x 3 = 5 feet). Nobody says a cord HAS to be 4' deep.. just 128 cubic feet total.

 

[savageactor7]

A face cord is not a real cord you're only interested in 8ft long and 4ft high...the width is the length of firewood you order. In my case if I were to buy wood it would be 20". That's why I would expect to pay more that the guy that ordered a 14" face cord.

Face cords are unique to wood stove burners only...and that's us.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

JAY, my math says 5x5x5 1/2= 137.5 cubic feet, not 128. I'd be happy with that for a cord

 

[RedRanger]

A face cord is not a real cord you're only interested in 8ft long and 4ft high...the width is the length of firewood you order. In my case if I were to buy wood it would be 20". That's why I would expect to pay more that the guy that ordered a 14" face cord.

Face cords are unique to wood stove burners only...and that's us.

Forgive me--I am still missing the boat here. Aren`t 3 face cords supposed to equal 128 cu.ft? No matter the cut length? :-S

 

[fossil]

...If I'm paying for 20" splits that's what I expect and Lees-wood co ...who does this for a living was the only poster that sees the wisdom in dealing in face cords. With a face cord you're only interested in 32sq ft DONE! Why make it any harder than it is.

Absolutely nothing "wrong" in dealing with face cords (4'x8', or equivalent)...so long as the seller and the buyer both understand what the length of the splits is to be and agree on it, as well as the price. Nothing wrong with it at all. As a buyer of firewood, if someone I've never dealt with before is advertising face cords without specifying the length of the splits (or rounds), then I have no way of comparing his price with anyone else's, that's all. When you say "a cord", it oughta mean "a cord". When you say a "face cord", it could mean anything until you supply the third dimension, then, and only then, is it possible to compare the price to anybody else's price. A face cord of 20" length splits is about 0.42 cord of wood. A face cord of 16" length splits is 0.333 cord, 20% less wood. The third dimension (length) is important for the buyer to know when dealing in face cords. Once a trusted relationship is established with a supplier, then face cords are as valid a way to order and purchase as any other. Rick

 

[Jay777]

JAY, my math says 5x5x5 1/2= 137.5 cubic feet, not 128. I'd be happy with that for a cord

whoops.. that was supposed to say 5 1/8 (although "5" is close enough in real life, of course)

 

[Jay777]

A face cord is not a real cord you're only interested in 8ft long and 4ft high...the width is the length of firewood you order. In my case if I were to buy wood it would be 20". That's why I would expect to pay more that the guy that ordered a 14" face cord.

Face cords are unique to wood stove burners only...and that's us.

Forgive me--I am still missing the boat here. Aren`t 3 face cords supposed to equal 128 cu.ft? No matter the cut length? :-S

Okay, I'll take a 3 face cords with 160" splits

What you say is true for 16" splits, but that's it.. naturally the length matters.

 

[SteveT]

Forgive me--I am still missing the boat here. Aren`t 3 face cords supposed to equal 128 cu.ft? No matter the cut length? :-S

No.

If the log length is 12" it will take 4 face cords to equal 1 cord. If 16" log length it will take 3 face cords to equal 1 cord. If 24" it will take 2 face cords to equal 1 cord. If the logs are 48" 1 face cord is 1 cord.

One cord is 128 cubic feet no matter how it is derived.

 

[RedRanger]

Okay, my ignorance is showing, but am looking at some of my own recently measured rows. One of them is 20ft long and 4ft high, that would equal 80 cu.ft. but it is 18" length. so I add on another 40cu.ft which makes it 120 cu.ft. Only slightly shy of a full cord. but is my math correct? Or am I just aging too rapidly?

 

[brooktrout]

Forgive me--I am still missing the boat here. Aren`t 3 face cords supposed to equal 128 cu.ft? No matter the cut length? :-S

No.

If the log length is 12" it will take 4 face cords to equal 1 cord. If 16" log length it will take 3 face cords to equal 1 cord. If 24" it will take 2 face cords to equal 1 cord. If the logs are 48" 1 face cord is 1 cord.

One cord is 128 cubic feet no matter how it is derived.

I agree. Unless someone can prove that a face cord and a full cord have absolutely no relation to each other.

 

[fossil]

My gosh...haven't any of you ever read "Flatland"? Get a copy, read it, and think about it. (You might even get a kick out of it!) We live in a world of three physical dimensions...to calculate the volume of a solid, you need all three. Rick

 

[Jerry_NJ]

sonnyinbc,

If we're buying 16" splits (3x16=48) then three face cords is a cord, i.e., three rows each 16" deep give us one of the 4' dimensions in 4x4x8.
EDIT: Then each of the face cords has a face 8'wide by 4' high.

 

[RedRanger]

sonnyinbc,

If we're buying 16" splits (3x16=48) then three face cords is a cord, i.e., three rows each 16" deep give us one of the 4' dimensions in 4x4x8.
EDIT: Then each of the face cords has a face 8'wide by 4' high.

Thanks Jerry: that is exactly what I had it worked it out to be. Mercy, still shows that I am still sane ;-P

 

[fossil]

...Mercy, still shows that I am still sane ;-P

I'm not so sure it's that simple to make that call, sonny. :bug: Rick

 

[RedRanger]

...Mercy, still shows that I am still sane ;-P

I'm not so sure it's that simple to make that call, sonny. :bug: Rick

That shot was even worse than one of those Brother Bart ones. no matter--God will get you for that one Ricky ;-)