Seeking guidance for a first time insert

[Berone]

Looking to get an insert for our fireplace and would appreciate thoughts and advice on a couple of topics.

First, selecting a dealer. We have a local company (Home and Hearth in Cortland Manor, NY). I checked the BBB and they have 7 complaints over 36 months. That strikes me as not too bad. The salesman I spoke to said that if we have a clay lined chimney that we don't need a full stainless steel liner. It seemed to me that he would be trying to sell me whatever he could, but I've read mixed things on that issue. If we didn't get one now, how difficult would it be to put it in later if needed? Is there anything in particular I should ask about that might clue me into how reliable the company is?

Second, selection of stove. The store has a display model of a Vermont Casting Large Winter Warm. They say it's being discontinued and have it marked down to $1950. That sounded like a good deal, until I started reading the threads about that particular model and VC's questionable warranty practices. Opinions? What I originally went in to look at was the Hearthstone Clydesdale. My wife likes the large glass doors, so whatever we get would have that. It seems that everything is around the same price, so cost isn't a deciding factor (except for the above mentioned closeout).

Third, installation. The dealer quoted installation at $400. I'm fearless and will take on any project myself, but for $400 my to do list is to long to learn how to do it when I could be doing something else. Unless this is something that many installers can't be trusted to do properly. For instance, I would never let someone else install windows in my house. I don't think anyone would do it better than I.

I appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[Stevebass4]

mine is hooked up with a direct connect into the clay - it's fine however it's a PIAto clean ie i have to remove everything (insert, direct connect, block off plate, and the surrond) once a year to clean it i do plan to line mine some day (i've been saying this for 3 years now)

but it's pretty easy to install and many folks here will give you great instructions but then again $400 is cheap and you wont have to move it

 

[Pagey]

I can't give you insert advice, as I've never used an insert - only a free standing stove. But what I can offer is some general advice. You might want to take a look at this article: http://www.woodstove.com/pages/masonry.html It talks about masonry chimneys and why relining is superior to a direct connect. Depending on the dimensions of your liner, for example, you could have sluggish draft if the flue is too large for the insert. Another thing to consider is that with a direct connect, each time you sweep the flue you will have to pull the insert, or you will sweep all that crud onto the top of the insert. I'm not sure about where you live, but in order for the installation to be signed off on (codes and/or insurance), a liner might be required. Make sure you check on these things. You don't want to invest all that time, money, and effort to find out you're not up to code!

Another thing to consider is your firewood supply. Obviously you've burned before, as you have a fireplace. But bear in mind that today's EPA certified stoves are designed for seasoned wood (18-22% moisture content) to maximize secondary combustion and to burn hot and clean. Unseasoned wood can prevent secondary combustion by cooling the fire by releasing too much steam as moisture in the wood is boiled away. Hopefully as someone who has heated with wood before, you have a supply of seasoned wood on hand or know where to obtain some.

 

[stejus]

I highly recommend getting a full liner. It will draft better and you will have less risk of a chimney fire. If fact, a fire in a liner isn't going to burn down you home where a chimney fire could. That, with the ease of cleaning a liner vs a direct connect should be enough reason to invest in it now, and not later.

 

[Berone]

Thanks - I'll read that article all the way through. From my glance over it it seems that the liner must be installed from the top down. Is that the case? I ask because we have a slate roof and nobody goes up there but the roofing guy. So if this is a top down installation then I have to get him involved.

Thanks,
Anthony

 

[Berone]

One more question: what is the average life span of a fireplace insert? What kind of maintenance does one require and at what cost?

Thank,
Anthony

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Looking to get an insert for our fireplace and would appreciate thoughts and advice on a couple of topics.

First, selecting a dealer. We have a local company (Home and Hearth in Cortland Manor, NY). I checked the BBB and they have 7 complaints over 36 months. That strikes me as not too bad. The salesman I spoke to said that if we have a clay lined chimney that we don't need a full stainless steel liner. It seemed to me that he would be trying to sell me whatever he could, but I've read mixed things on that issue. If we didn't get one now, how difficult would it be to put it in later if needed? Is there anything in particular I should ask about that might clue me into how reliable the company is?

Second, selection of stove. The store has a display model of a Vermont Casting Large Winter Warm. They say it's being discontinued and have it marked down to $1950. That sounded like a good deal, until I started reading the threads about that particular model and VC's questionable warranty practices. Opinions? What I originally went in to look at was the Hearthstone Clydesdale. My wife likes the large glass doors, so whatever we get would have that. It seems that everything is around the same price, so cost isn't a deciding factor (except for the above mentioned closeout).

Third, installation. The dealer quoted installation at $400. I'm fearless and will take on any project myself, but for $400 my to do list is to long to learn how to do it when I could be doing something else. Unless this is something that many installers can't be trusted to do properly. For instance, I would never let someone else install windows in my house. I don't think anyone would do it better than I.

I appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Anthony

1) The stainless steal liner is pretty standard. Do you need it? Probably not, but the people that write building codes and issue permits think that you do.

2) Not a big fan of VC stoves, but that's just me. Very spotty quality over the years. Never heard anything bad about Hearthstone stoves.

3) $400 is pretty standard for delivery and installation. Probably worth it.

 

[Pagey]

One more question: what is the average life span of a fireplace insert? What kind of maintenance does one require and at what cost?

Thank,
Anthony

Lifespan can depend on a few factors. Plate steel, for example, can probably go longer than cast iron between major maintenance cycles. I'm not aware of any soap stone inserts, so we'll not cover them. Part of the maintenance cycle will depend on what the baffle in the top of the insert is made from. My Lopi Endeavor, for example, uses firebrick and steel in the baffle. At some point, I'll have to replace those firebrick due to the intense heat they endure. Some manufacturers use a ceramic baffle board, so you have to be extra careful when loading so you don't puncture the baffle. Finally, making sure you don't continually overfire the unit will help to extend its life, regardless of what material it's made from. There's nothing like consistent overfiring to reduce the life of any stove.

 

[SteveT]

Unless it is a fairly large operation, I think seven BBB complaints in the reporting period is quite a few. I'd look into it a bit further, particularly if there is another dealer in the area giving you an alternate. Just for the heck of it I checked out the dealer I used and they had four complaints for the past three years and all complaints were service related, not install. I think this dealer is top notch, does a lot of business, and "a few" complaints are inevitable. I can see someone getting a bit PO'd regarding service but my thought is that many times the issue is beyond the dealers control (time to get the part from manufacturer or the like).

As to the insert choice I got the Clydesdale last year and am 100% satisfied with it. I think most people on this site that have the Clydesdale, or the smaller Morgan, are satisfied. I don't think you'd go wrong with either, but there are a lot of other good choices.

Good luck.

 

[bren582]

I also got the Clydesdale last year and I'm very happy with the build quality and heating performance. It seems that everything about this insert screams "Built Like a Tank". The first time I had to drop the baffle assembly to run a brush up the flue I was shocked at the weight of the thing, It dropped down and trapped my arms between it and the door opening for a sec before I realized, Wow, put some muscle into it Pete, this thing is heavy

The only concern I have is how much heat i'm not getting by radiation with 60 percent of the stove in the fireplace. Yeah the blower really moves the air on this thing but sometimes I don't feel like listening to it. I wonder how much more heat I would get with a free standing stove of similar spec??

One more thing,
I was in my local fireplace shop a week ago and they had the new/improved 2009 Clydesdale on the floor. Very impressive new look.. Hearthstone has improved on the original in just about every area that I was not really thrilled with on the original model..
Some of the most obvious improvements include:

1 - The very thin framed door on the original model is history by basically mounting a nice looking larger frame on top of the original thin frame that holds the glass

2 - Redesigned the door latch assembly adding a nice big knob and a roller bearing assembly that locks the door shut much better compared to the original

3 - Redesigned blower assembly to reduce fan noise and added a nice fan control bottom center

4 - Added a removable vent grate on the top of the face assembly to allow more heat to escape into the room from all that cast iron hidden beneath it..

5 - Redesigned cast iron surround (This i guess is a subjective improvement re: being better looking versus the original)

I'm not sure what else has been improved but I can tell you I like the new look so much I put my existing Clydesdale up for sale..

 

[afblue]

The liner should be about $500, and I think is well worth it. You dont have to rely on the integrity of your clay liner, and you will get a much stronger draft (smooth venturi flow) and a better performing fireplace. If you are saying that they are going to install the fireplace for $400!! Mine wants $800

Also remember that anything that is put on your installation bill associated with a Qualifiying wood burning unit goes towards the $1500 tax credit!!

Also another thing to realize is most fireplace shops are "exclusive dealers" to one brand so they are going to sell you that one brand. So you need to look online at the different companies and they locate the dealer in your area that sells it. Also especially in my area a dealer will sell one brand and I think he owns the store rights for the 5 ajoining counties. So the next stove shop that would sell the hearthstone brand may be a good hike away.

 

[vmandi]

Berone, check out Fireglow Distibutors in Jefferson Valley, NY, about 10 minutes from Cortlandt Manor. They have no BBB complaints in the last 36 months. We were very satistified with the sales transaction and installation of our insert.

 

[Berone]

Thanks. We were going to go over to Fire Glow today, which is my day off. It is, of course, also their day off. Maybe tomorrow. They carry a different set of lines than Home & Hearth so we either select a retailer we like and buy what they carry or select a stove we like and get stuck with the retailer. Not a great system.