Smart wood stove

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EatenByLimestone

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the future of woodburning or a wtf were they thinking moment?

 
the future of woodburning or a wtf were they thinking moment?

I think we will see more smart stoves like this. It's not what I want but it appears to many people
 
I think, like most people on this board, I burn efficiently. That is, I use dry wood and I get it up to temp and past that point there is no smoke from my chimney. Almost everyone I know that burns for heat, throw their wet wood on the fire and choke it down to a smoulder. When I gently bring up burning techniques to these people, it feels as though they think there is no way what they do is incorrect. How could it be, they've been doing this for years!

For people that understand good burning practices this technology isn't necessary, but for the majority (or least many) it could eliminate bad burning practices.
 
Expensive!
And ugly, imo. Still, the team deserves credit for developing cleaner-burning stoves. We have seen Novas here, but none of the Catalyst that I recall.
 
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And ugly, imo. Still, the team deserves credit for developing cleaner-burning stoves. We have seen Novas here, but non of the Catalyst that I recall.
It's an interesting stove, that's for sure. I stumbled across it a few years ago when we were in the market, but it had no appeal to us.
 
I don't understand the soap stone option, if there is a thermostat that sets the room temperature..?
 
From my understanding they claim that additional efficiency due to the self learning thermostat. I.e. it's not wood burning efficiency of the appliance but resource planning efficiency, as in smart handling of heat demand based on previous burns. Remember this stove works off of a room thermostat.

So it's a claimed fuel usage improvement (for the same home temperature, and thus efficiency is a somewhat valid term, though it is a bit deceptive as in wood heaters it's mostly used as a term to describe heat input vs heat output ratios).
 
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I think first they need to stress the importance of properly dry wood, most of my issues I have ever had have been a result of it at least, same as almost everyone on here that has an issue.
It seems like a good idea, it would probably bring more people into wood burning. How many of our wives or someone other than you know how to properly operate your wood stove with all the nuances? IE I’m leaving for work at 8, be back at 4, what to set the stove at so it’s time for a reload when I get home, what’s the temp outside? What’s the wind? What species of wood am I burning? Should I Adjust dampener? Get home Now what to set the stove at and how much wood does it need so it can be ready to be reloaded at 10. Is tomorrow a 1 load, 2 load, 3 load or 4 load day?
I’m pretty good with mine, I’m usually accurate to a half hour, but a time and wood consuming process it was.
 
I think first they need to stress the importance of properly dry wood, most of my issues I have ever had have been a result of it at least, same as almost everyone on here that has an issue.
It seems like a good idea, it would probably bring more people into wood burning. How many of our wives or someone other than you know how to properly operate your wood stove with all the nuances? IE I’m leaving for work at 8, be back at 4, what to set the stove at so it’s time for a reload when I get home, what’s the temp outside? What’s the wind? What species of wood am I burning? Should I Adjust dampener? Get home Now what to set the stove at and how much wood does it need so it can be ready to be reloaded at 10. Is tomorrow a 1 load, 2 load, 3 load or 4 load day?
I’m pretty good with mine, I’m usually accurate to a half hour, but a time and wood consuming process it was.
Along with some nights of being too cold, or roasting.
 
Wood burning should not need a smart burner.
Dry well maintained wood is all anybody needs to know but I realize I’m preaching to the choir.

Adding foo foo devices will just drive up costs and potentially create a stove with electrical problems that won’t work at all when you might need it most.
 
Combustion blower. It’s a manual loading pellet stove that uses giant unformed pellet. So with a combustion blower fast starts with repeatable controlled draft and I’m sure and air intake control too but I didn’t look that close. I still don’t see how you can get 90% efficiency. MFfire Please enlighten me/us. Think they have a member on the forum. If anyone recalls who it is tag them.

I will ignore the looks and the app. I want to see how it performs.
 
They explain it on their website: the efficiency (as it is commonly defined on hearth.com) is 70%. This is BTUs out over BTUs in.

They claim that you use 20% less fuel to heat your home if you use their (smart, learning) thermostat in the room. That is where the 90% number comes from (70+20). This is, according to them, based on the recognition that smart thermostats save 20% on a heating bill - according to their website (that 20% is taken from conventional heating systems with a smart thermostat, I presume).

(But, I don't know how this compares to different cases, i.e. homes that are unoccupied during the day where a smart thermostat learns that, and homes that are always occupied, like mine because I work at home.)

So they don't claim more BTUs out of their stove for the same BTU input. (In fact, the 70% is fair, but not outstanding?)
Instead they claim a fair heating (stove) efficiency and add a 20% gain based on the use of the smart thermostat that regulates the call for heat in a more conserving way.

But I won't get one. I like to have heat when the power is out.
And my home is continuously occupied, so I don't need something smart. Just set a temperature (or a heat output on the stove) and be done with it.
 
They explain it on their website: the efficiency (as it is commonly defined on hearth.com) is 70%. This is BTUs out over BTUs in.

They claim that you use 20% less fuel to heat your home if you use their (smart, learning) thermostat in the room. That is where the 90% number comes from (70+20). This is, according to them, based on the recognition that smart thermostats save 20% on a heating bill - according to their website (that 20% is taken from conventional heating systems with a smart thermostat, I presume).

(But, I don't know how this compares to different cases, i.e. homes that are unoccupied during the day where a smart thermostat learns that, and homes that are always occupied, like mine because I work at home.)

So they don't claim more BTUs out of their stove for the same BTU input. (In fact, the 70% is fair, but not outstanding?)
Instead they claim a fair heating (stove) efficiency and add a 20% gain based on the use of the smart thermostat that regulates the call for heat in a more conserving way.

But I won't get one. I like to have heat when the power is out.
And my home is continuously occupied, so I don't need something smart. Just set a temperature (or a heat output on the stove) and be done with it.
With a stove that has an HHV of almost 80%. Ok that’s what I thought about the 90% number too.
 
Yeah, I was curious about that too. Exactly how do they shut off the heat supply with cordwood. I’m imagining a fancy outdoor wood burner just turning off the combustion fan.
 
I don't think they shut it. They will control it within the "clean chimney" parameter range. I didn't figure out yet whether it has a cat, but the name suggests it does. That could mean they can dial it down a lot (which is still not "idling";tho).
 
It has a catalytic combustor. A combustion fan on the flue regulates the burn. The selling point for the stove is automatic operation. Just light the fire, close the door, and walk away. Unfortunately, we don't have any real-world use reports for this stove to know how well it works in various home situations. I'd like to know how well it works on a 30' flue that needs dampening more than boost.

PS: The manual says it's ok to operate the stove manually during a power outage.
PPS: Not fully automatic. The user still needs to operate the bypass to engage the cat after the stove has warmed up and disengage on reload.
 
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Then, apart from the connection to a (room) thermostat, it's not that different from how a BK operates. Not in the adjustment of air, and not in the even heat output, and not in the handling (bypass and set temperature or output). And the BK does that without electricity.
Granted not based on a room temperature but based on a heat output, but after one season with a BK one dials the output in pretty much as precise as if it was a temperature setting.

So it's powered and more expensive. I don't see this as better for me than my current stove. There may be a market for this (pellet stove owners that want a more classical fire view), but not for me.
 
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It won't be replacing our stove either.
 
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I would suggest something like this, or any of the stoves with little to no user input, for my MIL or folks that want to save on heating bills but aren't "aware"
 
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I would suggest something like this, or any of the stoves with little to no user input, for my MIL or folks that want to save on heating bills but aren't "aware"
Not sure how much the combustion fan intrudes on the flue. Better hope she has a sweep that knows what he is doing with this stove.
 
Not sure how much the combustion fan intrudes on the flue. Better hope she has a sweep that knows what he is doing with this stove.
You're right, she really needs a propane stove on a thermostat.
 
This seems like a more expensive, less efficient version of a BK that requires you to set up a bunch of electronics (and then hope nothing goes wrong with any of them) - the marketing hyperbole also gets my hackles up (no one spends hours lighting their wood stove, there are other stoves with thermostatic controls, calling something that doesn't even qualify for the federal tax credit the 'most efficient' stove on the market is quite the stretch). If they're going to stretch the truth really obviously in some places, I don't really have the time or inclination to discover if their particular way of measuring efficiency/emissions is actually better than the EPA test protocol, or if it's just more nonsense/spin. Certainly their EPA numbers are pretty lackluster, their clearance requirements are middle of the road, and a hearth pad requirement of R 2.67 is unusually high (why are they blasting all that heat out the bottom of the stove?).

It's also a pretty chonky stove - at 600 lbs, that's starting to get into a weight where there are likely structural reinforcement components of the installation. Compared to the BK Princess, I'm not sure what they're doing - the Princess has a 50% larger firebox, also has a thermostat, but it still has a slightly smaller footprint and height, and is only about 2/3 the weight.

ETA: Ok, I did poke around at some of their claims in more detail:

Serious side-eye about their 'it works great without electricity!' claim. From the manual: "Just build a fire as you normally would and allow it to burn. Catalyst has no manual controls, so no adjustment is possible." No air control at all? That seems like something that might technically work, but probably not a great idea to actually do.

Also the 'start a fire in 3 minutes' claim is pretty sus: "The catalytic combustor burns the gases and particles in the exhaust
when the temperature of the smoke reaches approximately 500ºF going through the catalytic combustor, or typically after about 5-15
minutes of establishing a strong fire." If I have to sit and monitor temps for 5 - 15 minutes before taking a manual action, I would call that taking 5 - 15 minutes to start up the stove, ie the same amount of time it takes to start up my existing stove.

The cat maintenance and removal procedures don't look especially simple, so if this is marketed towards people who want a super easy stove, that could be a problem.

The 'smart' efficiency percentage number is from the Nest white paper - the percentage savings are dramatically higher in warmer climates (such as the Bay Area), and drop off once you get to places where it gets cold in the winter (basically, if your delta-T to outside is 20 at a comfortable temp and 0 for an away-from-home temp, you'll get way bigger percentage - though not dollar - savings than someone where the two delta-Ts are 70 and 50). Unfortunately since wood stoves tend not to be as popular in Mediterranean climates, the odds that they can actually reduce wood usage by 20% are slim to none (for someone who's away from home for 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no pets to be worried about, with a schedule that's ok with a cold house all morning until you leave, you might get a 10% savings by dropping the indoor temp 20 degrees while you're out of the house). For most people, I would guess it's a 5% or less savings.
 
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