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Someone Give Me Some Good News, PLEASE!

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Walt_85, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    Ok, so I thought I had this all thought out and ready to go, but it turns out I was wrong.

    Background: I have a Lopi Republic 1750i ZC approved insert to install in a ZC fireplace. I purchased SS flex liner with all the required adapters as well as insulation.

    Problem: I laid everything out yesterday and was doing the final planning for the install and I came across the problem of attaching the 13x13 square top plate to the 11 inch circular metal chimney. So I called the company that I purchased the pipe from and they said that there is no solution for what I'm trying to do and that I can return what I purchased but there isn't anything I can buy to complete this install. Then I called the dealer that I bought the stove from and he said there shouldn't be a problem.

    The guy from the pipe company said the issue is the fact that you have to take the existing rain cap off which causes the system as a whole to lose its UL rating

    The Lopi dealer says he will come and install the stove with no reservations.

    I asked what the charge would be if he ordered the pipe, fittings, and insulation as well and he said the cost of materials plus install would be $1500 plus freight.

    The pipe company will not pay for return shipping and I imagine that the cost to ship this stuff will not be cheap.

    Is there any way to correctly use what I have or do I have to eat the cost of shipping materials back and purchasing new materials plus the dealer install?

    I REALLY appreciate any help as I'm unbelievably frustrated at this point.

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  2. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Wait - is your sole problem the top plate and running the flex up to/through? What size is the hole in the top plate now? A picture would really help to understand your issue. Relax - this stuff is done all the time. We just need to get some more info on your setup.
    PapaDave likes this.
  3. My Oslo heats my home

    My Oslo heats my home Minister of Fire

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    I got the same feeling, is the problem the top plate? you have square and you need round?? I had an odd shaped chimney top and my local stove shop had 2 or 3 fabricators they used for timse like this. Anyways, they took my measurements and what liner I was using for the install and made me a SS top plate with a 2" welded collar. It was a bit pricey bc of the special order but it all worked out.
  4. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    My original reason for calling the pipe company was due to the fact that I have a square top plate that has to be mounted to a round existing metal chimney. The top plate that I ordered has a 6" opening to accept the 6" liner as well as the 6" rain cap. The comment that started the panic was the customer service rep who said this install isn't possible because removing the existing rain cap is not allowed.

    Sorry I don't have a picture, but if you can imagine a prefab metal chimney with no chase, and then imagine a standard 13"x13" no sag top plate with a 6" opening... That's my problem. How to connect those two together in an approved fashion.

    Thanks for the help!
  5. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    Yeah, as far as I know that's my only problem area, but from the customer service guys point of view, it was a show stopper. I guess because installing the new top plate will not allow air between the inner and outer walls of the existing chimney?
  6. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    First things first - without seeing this I can only work off of the pic in my head. That said - I have never heard that you can't remove the rain cap. There isn't anything structural about the rain cap. Matter of fact - I change mine to a different style that works better in my situation. What am I missing here? Why can't you take off the rain cap?

    Edit: I posted before your response. Does the existing cap have some type of ventilation holes? Does the old rain cap also act as your top plate for the pipe? If so, take that cap to a metal worker and have the top knocked off and make the new pipe fit to it (the old cap). That way you retain the vent properties of the old cap.
  7. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    I asked that exact question, and the response I got back from the support guy was that if you remove it then it voids the UL rating of the system.

    I won't be home again until tomorrow afternoon, but if we haven't talked to a solution before then, I'll try and snap a couple pictures to post here.

    Thanks
  8. My Oslo heats my home

    My Oslo heats my home Minister of Fire

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    Is your installation of the SS liner going to have insulation wrapped around the flex before it's installed into the old flue? Is customer service worried about the air space between the insulation and the old flue walls?

    and yes, the pics would be helpful. Almost seems as if we are missing something
  9. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    The support guy must be concerned with some type of venting issue. See my edited post above.
  10. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    I am not sure if it acts as the top plate or not. Still rigging up scaffolding and ladders trying to get to the top of the chimney.

    So are you saying to fit the new rain cap inside of the old one? Or figure out a way to attach the 6" pipe to the 11" rain cap IF there is an existing top plate?

    Those do seem plausible.

    I'll have to get pics to clarify my side of things.
  11. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes - please do - as of right now I am just shooting from the hip.
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  12. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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  13. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    I am planning on insulating the flex liner. I think customer support is worried about air cooling the space between the inner and outer walls of the existing pipe.

    The idea of fashioning the new top plate and cap to fit inside or through the existing cap seems like the best option at this point.

    I will get pictures as soon as I figure a way to the top of the chimney haha!
  14. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks Bro - yep, just as I was concerned. Air cooled cap. Proceeding with fitting the new flex to this cap is your call. I personally don't have an issue going that way, but that is me. I am NOT a licensed installer.
  15. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    Will this accept the smaller diameter insulated flex pipe while still allowing the existing chimney to air cool? I can't see how the liner would work with one of these.

    Also, I don't see an 11" model available.

    Thanks and keep the help coming! I'm a bigger fan every time I visit this site!
  16. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    What we need is the ID and OD of the top of that pipe.
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    As to the UL listing thing, all liners are only listed with their factory top plate, cap and adapter at the bottom. In other words, 99% of the liners installed in this country don't comply.
  18. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    Haha, I understand 100%, I hold no one liable but myself for my decisions.

    Lets say for a second that you were arguing against this option, what would be your argument?

    Trying to get the pluses and minuses of going this route.
  19. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    I'm on it! Now if I had just went to trapeze school and was comfortable balancing on a unsecured ladder laying across scaffolding and my pitched roof! Haha. I will get that information as soon as possible though.
  20. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    You be careful up there.
  21. Walt_85

    Walt_85 New Member

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    That's good to know. So non-compliance doesn't necessarily mean un-safe.
  22. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Pretty much it.
  23. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    It would be very nice to see a picture of the cap. I often am able to cut the top portion of the cap off and leave the base with the air cooling potion intact. Let the liner run up past that base, then use a clamp style storm collar and cap. It works very well.
    Dura vent makes a liner kit that's specifically for this application, it wasn't as easy as the way I mentioned above. There was no benefit to using their top kit except its listed, for what that's worth.
  24. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Another question I have is how big is that prefab fireplace? I have out several 1750's in prefabs and most often its tight! Even though it will technically fit, you still need both flues to line up and have room to get your hands in there to make the connection. We often end up needing to use an adjustable offset box because there is no room for elbows.
  25. Heatsource

    Heatsource Minister of Fire

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