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Something oozing out if thimble

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by sowers25, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Butcher

    Butcher Minister of Fire

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    Well I aint no expert and I dont play one on T.V. niether but looking at the big picture I would start by getting rid of that damper in your stovepipe and unless I'm dizzier today than on other days I'ld say you got a backwards lean to that small horizontal piece of pipe that goes into your thimble.

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  2. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    It's 22' I believe and with a masonary chimney I had to go with a 8x8 square clay flue in order to accomadate the 6" clay thimble and the 6" stove pipe do I not? All the masons at least told me this was standard practice and I could not go any smaller, I had 4 different companies tell me this.
  3. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    I have yet to use the damper, only reason I put it in is in case the fire would get away from me, so unless I close it does its presence hurt anything? The horizontal pipe has approx an inch or so of fall from the chimney to the stove pipe, is that normal?
  4. Oldhippie

    Oldhippie Minister of Fire

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    Feels to me like you don't have a strong enough draft, or are purposely keeping the air flow minimized, with the stove controls so the stove isn't getting hot enough, hence lot's of creosote flowing up the pipe and collecting just above the entrance to the flue.. it collects and then drips back down into and around the thimble and out onto your brick work.

    Can you leave the stove air supply open longer to raise the heat on that stove top up into the 600'F range? Say at least 450'F on the vertical pipe. Even with wood that still needs some seasoning you should be able to get enough strong draft to get a fire going hot enough (eventually the moisture in the wood burns off) to get a hotter burn, and when you do you will eliminate that gooey creosote. I've had that happen to me before too, but not as much and not as early in the season when I had poorly seasoned wood.

    This time of year isn't helping you much with milder temps down there in West Virginia. When it gets colder you'll get a stronger draft and that will help pull the temp up and you'll burn hotter and cleaner. ..and you'll want it hotter too to keep the house warm. Many folks have a tendency to not burn hot enough during this early season... because they don't want to toast themselves out of the house, but just take the chill off.

    Lot's of trial and error and learning that you need to go through.

    This of course is just my 2 cents and I'm just an old hippie without much sense but lots of opinions. But I have been burning for a long time so that's my take on your situation.
  5. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    To prevent a smoldering fire i just let the stove go out when the house gets to hot.

    Hope that helps.
  6. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    I'm not a flue expert, but there have been other threads on here about similar situations. It may be that the 8x8 section of masonry flue is too cold (never heats up enough) and is contributing to creosote condensation. It may also be causing an inadequate draft because flue temps have to get hot enough to draft well., which is harder to do with the newer stoves than the old ones. Other threads here seem to suggest that an insulated 6" chimney or liner is often needed. I hope somebody else can pipe in on that.

    What do you mean by "higher ranges" there? If you mean that you can't get the top much higher than 350, I would wonder if that could be explained by the wood alone. I would think that once most of the moisture has been burned out of a load, which it will do, then burning temps should be more normal. An NC30 should be easy to get into the 600's from what I read here.

    The wood is still very suspect, though. 26-28% moisture content is not good. I wonder,however, if it would be bad enough by itself to cause this much problem with cool fires, although it may make a draft or flue problem more apparent. Maybe some if it is worse than that?

    If that horizontal section of pipe is leaning down toward the stove, then I wouldn't think that would be a problem. I thought it maybe sloped toward the chimney which would collect water.

    Oh, also, have you looked into the air supply system, liked a blocked intake or something?
  7. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    sprinter 26%MC wood is not the cause alone. I have burned plenty of that stuff in my CAT stove, due to it being all i had, even hight MCs. I think the problem is shutting the stove down while there is still to much moisture in there. Try burning with the air open for an hour to char it good then start closing it. OR get some of those $5 grocery store/gas station bundles that are known dry...or go to lowes or get some 2x4s, cut them into firewood lengths and have a fire with those and see what kind of temps you can reach? They wil always behotter than wood due to surface area and super dryness but if you rocket to 650F after an hour or 2 you know its your wood.
  8. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    I am trying to track down some good dry wood and see what it does. There was probably a couple days where I shut it down too soon without getting it good and hot. I have only been able to get it to the 550 range a few times, but other than that even wide open it would not accomplish those temps. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping its just a wood problem and not a chimney problem because I just stuck a pile of money in the chimney.
  9. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    Also i noticed at the top of the chimney it looks like there was some gooey black mess dripping down the flue at the top and the brick around the clean out was kinda brownish
  10. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Another RED FLAG. "Gooey and black" is bad stuff. Consider it unburnt fuel. If there is any level of build up and you get that stuff to torch off, you will have a very exciting day/night. Inspect and sweep as needed before you proceed to try and crank up the temps. This IS a safety issue.
  11. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    +1 seems dangerous to me.
  12. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    There are probably two or three issues going on here that are ganging up on you.
    1. Marginal wood quality (moisture content) Easy to correct with better wood or adding commercial fire logs or "biobricks".
    2. Turning the stove down too far, too fast would cause both creosote and cool stove temps especially with moist wood. Easy to correct.
    3. I truly hope I'm wrong about this one, but that 8" masonry chimney may be a part of the problem for reasons mentioned above. If it is, you might be able to just line it as is commonly done for inserts on existing chimneys. A qualified chimney sweep - installer would be the best source to help you sort that out.
  13. blades

    blades Minister of Fire

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    Yep, Oak too wet. Fresh split will take 2 years to dry out. Depending on where or how you got your readings MC wise, way to much moisture for NC30. Need less than 20% measured on the inside face of a fresh split or resplit. I agree with everyone else on the black stuff. The 8x8 block chimney is severely retarding your draft as well as allowing the exhaust to cool way to much. Masons not too bright around your area if this was purpose built for the stove., manual gives exactly what should be. With an 8x8 you are not going to be able to get a insulated liner down it, You could insert a 6" stainless steel straight pipe all the way down to the bottom clean out ( they did put a clean out down there didn't they?) and a cut out in the side at the junction needed for the 30's flue pipe. This could then be surrounded by poured Insulation of some type ( has to be none flammable).
    Operation: once you have a good fire going and the secondary's ( the pipes above) doing their light show you can then stage the damper control down to about a thumbnail behind the edge of the log lip. At this point it should be about 450-600 ( might even climb a bit more) on top of the stove at the step point. After the light show peters out it will start slowly dropping down over a 6 or so hour period (lot of varibles here) Do not stuff the fire box with wood jamed all the way to the tubes only up to the rails just above the fire brick. Just my penny's worth as an NC30 owner enjoying the heat. If no one else mentioned it old pallets make a good source of free wood to mix with a couple pieces of that not so good oak, just do not use that by it self, burns way to hot.
  14. bluedogz

    bluedogz Minister of Fire

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    I had EXACTLY this problem in my 8x8 masonry flue, burning subpar wood (unknown at the time) in an old smoke dragon. When we dropped the liner down, I got chunks of creosote the size of eggs tumbling out of the flue. I had similar drippies down the wall too.

    Dude, call a sweep. You know it makes sense.
  15. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    You're brutal;lol But I'll admit I was thinking the same thing... I was hoping that an 8" OD liner might squeeze in, but maybe not.
  16. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    Ok, i got some decent wood been s/s for 1+ years to burn and see what happens. After burning wide open for the past 2 hours, im still getting stove top temps of 350-400 with a healthy bed of coals, flames blaring, and fan off. I also have a temp gauge on the side of stove and that one is reading 450-500. If i was getting a bad draft wouldn't I have problems with smoke pouring out during reloads, because I don't, not at all.
  17. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    I would think so, but someone else may have other ideas.

    But we should still talk about the wood. How did you come by the new wood? How decent is it? Do know the actual moisture content? What species is it? Oak, for example, may take 3 years to be dry enough to burn. Sorry to bombard you with questions. It's terrible, I know. But I'm not sure the wood issue is really solved yet.

    EDIT: Are you using the same thermometer for the sides and the top? Those temperatures don't sound right to me. I wouldn't think there would be that much difference, and 500 seems more normal. Anybody there with a 30 that can talk about side temps? Bluedogz?
  18. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    I bought the wood and its hickory, cherry, walnut, ash, and a little oak. Just split and checked with mm. Still higher then I thought, but around 22. Two different Rutland temp gauges, the tractor supply special. Ill post a pic.

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  19. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Okay. 22% isn't bad. I'm out of ideas. Could you swap gauges and see if they agree?

    BTW, I have heard complaints about Rutland stovetop thermometers, but not sure about specifics on that.
  20. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    I had the two gauges side by side and they read about 25-50 degrees different. Maybe I should get a infrared thermometer before I go any further. The guy I bought my wood off of suggested taking my chimney cap off and possibly lengthening my chimney, would that really change a thing?
  21. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Well, I'm really not a chimney guy, so I'll defer those questions, except to say that taller chimneys usually draw more, but frankly, I'd be more concerned about the fact that its so large and uninsulated masonry, which is really contraindicated for a stove requiring 6" stainless all the way up.

    I really think the next step for you ought to be a qualified chimney sweep/installer well versed in the requirements of your type of stove.
  22. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    How many 90's do you have? This chimney is outside? Your chimney is a big part of the problem I believe.
  23. sowers25

    sowers25 New Member

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    It has one 90 and yes it is outside. Does anyone out here have a englander hooked up to a outside masonry ?
  24. oldspark

    oldspark Guest

    One 90 and then goes into a thimble creating 2 90's?
  25. ikessky

    ikessky Minister of Fire

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    Oldspark hit it on the head. Even using seasoned wood, you're still going to fight with that chimney. 8x8 of masonary outside is going to take a loooooooong time to heat up to give optimal draft.

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