Starting from scratch... Any Tips?

[HuntingEd]

Hey All,
I've been lurking here for months as I've been trying to figure out what to do in order to get wood heat for our new home. The home is about 21 yrs old and has an old pre-fab zero clearance fireplace that was converted to gas. Unfortunately neither the fireplace nor the metal chimney (wood structure surround) are suitable for a woodstove insert. The home is heated with LP gas and thats very expensive, I have unlimited access to wood and I grew up on wood heat, so I really wanted to do something quickly.

So my options were to build a new masonry chimney/wood insert OR install a new zero-clearance stove and install a new triple wall metal chimney inside the existing chase. After comparing the prices it's roughly 2-3k more for the masonry chimney & woods stove combo, than the zero clearance option. So we decided to go with the masonry chimney becase I felt safer about it, it looks better, AND it allows me to put a thimble in my basement for a stove down there someday.

So now for my questions:

Is there any way I can design the chimney for optimal efficiency? I'm thinking of adding a custom built blower or convection around the firebox to circulate air (in addition to the stove). Essentially some grates at the floor level and then at the top of the firebox to circulate air. Anyone have links or experience with this?

Also, I've narrowed it down the Jotul C550 Rockland vs. Hearthstone Clydesdale any exerience/recomendations here?

thanks!
Ed

 

[begreen]

Hi Ed, welcome. Building a new fireplace just to house an insert seems to be overkill. If starting from scratch, you will get better performance from a freestanding stove with a nice fire view. It will be a lot less work amd expense. A properly installed class A chimney is probably going to be safer as well. If it can be run up the interior of the house, it should perform better and stay cleaner. Or tearout the existing unit and replace it with a modern EPA ZC fireplace. You can get one that will allow ducting to possibly heat the basement as well.

But first some questions about the current setup. Is the current pre-fab shot or too small to accommodate an adequately sized insert? If it is in good shape, provide the dimensions of the firebox. Next, how large is the area you are trying to heat? Is this a separate room or is it fairly open to the rest of the house?

 

[ControlFreak]

First thing to do is get your wood. If you're looking at getting wood now for this coming winter, it's too late to have decent performance, and the suppliers that deliver "seasoned" wood never deliver wood thats ready to burn.

You're very fortunate to be able to do a proper installation. Most of us live with the classic masonry chimney tacked onto the house exterior, which does work, but is subject to backdrafting when cold.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

As CF mentioned . . . if you were thinking about heating this year with wood I wouldn't count on it . . . getting your own wood and being able to heat safely and efficiently at this point would most likely be an exercise in futility as you would find the wood would not be seasoned enough to ignite easily, you would not get the full BTUs out of the wood and would therefore have to burn more wood to stay as warm as you would like and you would find yourself with a lot more creosote in the chimney which is a fire danger. If you purchase wood you may or may not end up with seasoned wood . . . it really is a crap shoot . . . and based on what I read here . . . if I was a betting man I would bet that you would be told it is seasoned and would find out that it is not seasoned enough. Now as for getting wood for next year right now . . . by all means, do so.

Insert . . . if I had a home with a good wood burning masonry fireplace I might consider an insert . . . but if you're talking about tearing out stuff and beginning anew I would look at going with a Class A chimney and a free-standing woodstove due to the cost and gain in heat . . . and quite honestly, if done right, it can look mighty sharp as well. The flip side of using Class A and a free standing woodstove is not having a hearth to hang your Christmas stockings so Santa may have a problem locating them on Christmas Eve.

Future basement stove . . . hmmm . . . you might want to do a search on basement woodstoves . . . these installs can sometimes be tricky . . . and if you're not actively using the area it might not be a worthwhile thing to do.

 

[HuntingEd]

Thanks for the input so far... here's my answers to the questions...

Begreen:
As far as a free-standing unit - dont think it would work, the room isn't really large (~20x15?), if we put a free standing unit in it would dominate the room too much. But I'm going to check w/ wife, she was against it at first, but I would prefer one for effectiveness . However the location should be good to heat the whole house, very open first floor plan, its on the center of the side wall of the house. and across from kitchen, with 2 living areas to left and right, then across from a large open foyer to the upstairs so it should heat the upstairs nicely. house just under 2500SF. Can't run up the interior, was originally going to put class A in existing chase, and still might... The current prefab is 21 yrs old, I dont think its good enough for the heat of a stove, and I'm confident the metal chimney is not class A. So I'm looking at a tear out at a minimum. I could probably run ducting from a zero-clearance to basement, but I really like the ability to have a free standing unit down there in a few years (which is bonus of going for masonry. I agree that a masonry seems overkill, but the zero-clearance is 2k more than the inserts, and I'd have to spend 2k for demo & new class A pipe, so for 2k more I get a masonry chimney, which is asthetically pleasing and lets me add a thimble for a free standing stove in basement.

ControlFreak - I've got a quote for a standard mansonry chimney w/ 2 flues, what can be done to prevent backdrafting? Granted it never gets super cold in my area, but can stay in the teens over night and 20's during day for a few streches each season. I'm looking to switch to wood heat as my primary source though. I've got the wood covered. I have 1-2 chords of seasoned, covered wood (2-3 years min) and I've got a nice size black-oak that was hit by lightning a year ago that has been leaning on another tree I'm going to split this weekend, not perfect but the lightning dried it out quite nicely. Then I've got a cherry and another oak that fell last winter. I split all the wood my parents use every year, so they will let me take some of the seasoned stuff as long as i replace it 2 fold

 

[Uper]

I didn't start collecting wood last year until about this time. I cut whatever was down or dead standing and got through the year in great shape, so don't let that scare you. I didn't have much in my chimney after two cleanings either, so it can be done. Be careful with the leaning oak, that kind of thing can be tricky!

 

[begreen]

You are correct about not using the current flue. If the current ZC is in good shape and approved for an insert, then a new stainless liner has to be run up the existing ZC flue in order to connect the insert. What seems to be missing from the calculations is the cost of a new masonry multistory chimney and fireplace. What are the estimates for that?

FWIW, we have a large stove in the corner of our living room. It's the same size as your living room, open floor plan. The stove fits right in and doesn't dominate the room. In the winter, the view is better than the TV. But if the desired look is to have a fireplace, that's fine.

 

[HuntingEd]

Heres details on the pricing - 6500 for zeroclearance and class A in existing chase + additional cost of new surround (~500-1000?) Cost of masonry - 6500 which includes 2 flues full height, new hearth/mantel, and thimble in basement. So the real difference is the cost of the insert (less cost of surround). which I'm guessing is about 2-3k which is where I came up with my 2k differential. I think a free standing stove is out of the question, we want a regular hearth w/ mantel and have small kids so we wanted to minimize hot surfaces. (will be adding a gate regardless). My logic for going masonry is that I think it will be higher value added for cost. It would add close to 80% of its cost to the equity, whereas a zero clearance wont do that (IMO). Also, it leaves me the option to put a small freestander in the basement (eyes on a small hearthstone!).

Uper - don't worry, I'll be safe when cutting that 'widow-maker'! Infact we've had a break in the heat so I'll be splitting tonight!