Stove pipe advice please!

[Little Odd Me]

This is a follow up thread from another one.

I have an Englander 1800 sq. ft. wood-burning stove.

I live in a rural area where I do not have many choices of people to help me. I had the stove installed 18 months ago. They did not have double walled stove pipe, and said I did not need it. From my research and the excellent advice on the forums here, I realize I do need double walled stovepipe.

Here's my setup:
My 6 inch single wall stovepipe goes up about 10 feet (EDIT: sorry, 8 feet to the top of the bend, I was initially measuring from the floor) and then does a 90 degree turn to enter the wall.

When it enters the wall it enters an unlined chimney that goes up about 3 feet to level with the top of my wall. There is no chimney cap.

I'm horribly sick right now, and thinking of doing all the work myself is awful. But I agree with a poster on the previous post that I shouldn't trust the people who did previous work that is dangerous. So I am going to order some double walled pipe and do the interior work myself. It's not difficult for me.

ISSUE STATED HERE:
I don't feel competent to install a stovepipe into the wall and up the chimney. To get the bend up and into the chimney to join a piece of stovepipe there seems tricky, as I have to work INSIDE the chimney. Here's the current setup as a diagram if it helps, with an arrow pointing to the problem area.

So, I was wondering what people think of this idea: instead of going up the old chimney, I could go through the wall at the point where the stovepipe goes into the chimney, and run my stovepipe up the outer wall? The problem would be cooling of the smoke even with a double wall.

So if that's a no-go, how do I line my chimney?

Obviously, a chimney cap is also needed.

 

[begreen]

Pictures didn't post. Here are some guidelines:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/putting-images-into-your-forums-posts.87212/

 

[Little Odd Me]

Pictures didn't post. Here are some guidelines:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/putting-images-into-your-forums-posts.87212/

Thanks, I tried to do the URL from another site and it didn't work. So all the pics are now uploaded as files.

 

[begreen]

Definitely needs double-wall stove pipe. The metal shield at the ceiling tile is not proper. Dumping into the large chimney is also cooling flue gases and slowing draft. What altitude is this at?

 

[Little Odd Me]

Definitely needs double-wall stove pipe. The metal shield at the ceiling tile is not proper. Dumping into the large chimney is also cooling flue gases and slowing draft. What altitude is this at?

Around the 5000 ft mark.

What needs to be done with the shield?

 

[begreen]

Around the 5000 ft mark.

What needs to be done with the shield?

That will be determined by the distance between the top of the elbow and the ceiling. If it is >9" then just going to double wall will be sufficient. Also, is the stove pipe really 12' from stove top to the elbow. It looks like less.

 

[Little Odd Me]

That will be determined by the distance between the top of the elbow and the ceiling. If it is >9" then just going to double wall will be sufficient. Also, is the stove pipe really 12' from stove top to the elbow. It looks like less.

I'm not sure where you got 12 from, I posted 10. And actually it is less, because I am thinking ceiling height (which is just over 11) and forgetting to factor in the height of the stove. So from the stovetop to the top of the bend, it's actually 8'. Sorry about that.

The distance between the top of the elbow and the ceiling is only four inches. Ugh.

 

[begreen]

Yes, it looks more like 8'. The flue is too short for this stove. I suspect that you have not ever seen the full potential of this little heater.

Have you ever measured the height of the actual ceiling above the hung ceiling?

 

[AlbergSteve]

Doesn't that chimney need to be lined, with something?

 

[Little Odd Me]

Doesn't that chimney need to be lined, with something?

Exactly.

 

[Little Odd Me]

Yes, it looks more like 8'. The flue is too short for this stove. I suspect that you have not ever seen the full potential of this little heater.

Too short? And in this instance are "stovepipe" and "flue" interchangeable?

 

[Little Odd Me]

Have you ever measured the height of the actual ceiling above the hung ceiling?

Yes, I have. The height is 13 inches. I have plans to take out the drop ceiling and replace it with rafters and drywall. So I will raise it up then.

Unfortunately I wasn't planning that for at least a few months. I'm terribly ill. But maybe some ugly compromise is needed for my safety - remove the two hanging ceiling tiles and cut a few pieces of old fire retardant drywall to line the edges of the gap between the rest of the hanging ceiling and the old tin ceiling above.

 

[Woody Stover]

As a stop-gap measure you could change the 90 to two 45s, and put a top plate on the masonry, and another 4' section up there. It sounds like draft may still be marginal, so you may have to add more than 4' of chimney outside, and anything over 5' requires bracing.

 

[Little Odd Me]

As a stop-gap measure you could change the 90 to two 45s, and put a top plate on the masonry, and another 4' section up there. It sounds like draft may still be marginal, so you may have to add more than 4' of chimney outside, and anything over 5' requires bracing.

Let me see if I understand (noob here) - the two 45s would replace the 90 because it would not slow down the smoke going up the chimney as much as a 90 degree bend does?

So with this idea I would not line the chimney, but rather cover the top with a hole in it that connects to a six inch wide section of double walled pipe up there? And that would help because it would help keep the masonry chimney part warm? Bracing I can do if necessary.

 

[Little Odd Me]

Oh and the two 45s would keep the pipe away from the ceiling. Got it. Sorry I'm a bit slow. Need to go back to bed for a bit. Will order some supplies for the job ahead, and then sleep and check this out later. Thanks for all your help.

 

[Woody Stover]

Let me see if I understand (noob here) - the two 45s would replace the 90 because it would not slow down the smoke going up the chimney as much as a 90 degree bend does?
So with this idea I would not line the chimney, but rather cover the top with a hole in it that connects to a six inch wide section of double walled pipe up there? And that would help because it would help keep the masonry chimney part warm? Bracing I can do if necessary.

Well, I thought you didn't want to get involved with a complete overhaul in the middle of the season, so I was just throwing some temporary ideas out there. I'm no chimney expert (hopefully a couple of the pros we have here, webby3650 or bholler, will chime in) but what I would do ideally, if you just want to do it properly now and be done with it, would be to go into the chimney down lower (but I think you want a few feet of straight-up rise first to improve draft out of the stove.) Then go into the masonry with two 45s and a thimble, then run an insulated liner to the top of the chimney, adding Class A above the masonry as needed to get good draft.

 

[bholler]

Just abandon the old masonry chimney and run straight up through the roof with doublewall connector pipe transitioning to prefab chimney pipe at the ceiling.

 

[begreen]

Too short? And in this instance are "stovepipe" and "flue" interchangeable?

No. The flue system is the entire length, from stove top to chimney top. Stove pipe is only within the room envelope.

 

[begreen]

Just abandon the old masonry chimney and run straight up through the roof with doublewall connector pipe transitioning to prefab chimney pipe at the ceiling.

I had similar thoughts, though with some concerns about the flat roof penetration. I wouldn't invest in too much right now except for maybe stove pipe.

Sorry you are not well. Hope this is temporary. That has to make it hard. Is there someone in the community that can help?

 

[bholler]

I had similar thoughts, though with some concerns about the flat roof penetration. I wouldn't invest in too much right now except for maybe stove pipe.

Sorry you are not well. Hope this is temporary. That has to make it hard. Is there someone in the community that can help?

Yeah flat roof penetrations can be problematic. We usually build up a section cover the whole thing with rubber then put the flashing ontop of that.

 

[Little Odd Me]

Well, I thought you didn't want to get involved with a complete overhaul in the middle of the season, so I was just throwing some temporary ideas out there. I'm no chimney expert (hopefully a couple of the pros we have here, webby3650 or bholler, will chime in) but what I would do ideally, if you just want to do it properly now and be done with it, would be to go into the chimney down lower (but I think you want a few feet of straight-up rise first to improve draft out of the stove.) Then go into the masonry with two 45s and a thimble, then run an insulated liner to the top of the chimney, adding Class A above the masonry as needed to get good draft.

Thank you yes, I'm trying to keep the work down. I might in fact admit defeat temporarily and invest a couple of space heaters, because I'm two weeks out from surgery and in six weeks from now I might be able to do it myself with some ease. Thank you for the help.

 

[Little Odd Me]

Yeah flat roof penetrations can be problematic. We usually build up a section cover the whole thing with rubber then put the flashing ontop of that.

It is definitely something to consider though, when I eventually get the job done.

 

[KJamesJR]

From what I was told by my inspector, double wall pipe isn’t necessary so long as you’re meeting the 18” of clearance. If not a metal heat shield needs to be used against all combustible surfaces with a 1” air gap.

Obviously you need to fix the situation because it’s not entirely safe burning in an unlined chimney. I’m thinking if you’re under the weather and looking to do as little labor as possible, you don’t want to pay an installer, you also can’t get any help, then you can get flexible insulated chimney liner and feed it down your existing chimney. I think Lowe’s sells a kit or something of the sort.

But as mentioned, it might save you the future headache if you just wait until you are able to perform or pay for a proper chimney install. It can be a PitA.

 

[bholler]

From what I was told by my inspector, double wall pipe isn’t necessary so long as you’re meeting the 18” of clearance. If not a metal heat shield needs to be used against all combustible surfaces with a 1” air gap.

Obviously you need to fix the situation because it’s not entirely safe burning in an unlined chimney. I’m thinking if you’re under the weather and looking to do as little labor as possible, you don’t want to pay an installer, you also can’t get any help, then you can get flexible insulated chimney liner and feed it down your existing chimney. I think Lowe’s sells a kit or something of the sort.

But as mentioned, it might save you the future headache if you just wait until you are able to perform or pay for a proper chimney install. It can be a PitA.

No double wall is not nessecary but they have a really long connector so it would be usefull to keep internal temps up in the pipe increasing draft and reducing buildup. And the masonry chimney is only a few feet tall. To me it isnt worth lining. It would only take a section or 2 of chimney pipe and would eliminate the 90s 10 feet off the floor which i am sure are a real pita to clean.

 

[KJamesJR]

No double wall is not nessecary but they have a really long connector so it would be usefull to keep internal temps up in the pipe increasing draft and reducing buildup. And the masonry chimney is only a few feet tall. To me it isnt worth lining. It would only take a section or 2 of chimney pipe and would eliminate the 90s 10 feet off the floor which i am sure are a real pita to clean.

I guess I missed the part we’re he only had 3’ of masonry chimney.

I wonder how well that stove would even draft with only 11’ of total run and a good 90 degree bend?