Stove selection and location

[saewoody]

Thanks saewoody. That's helpful to know, especially since you're in the same area of the country. Do you mind sharing your house layout and square footage?

Sorry I haven’t responded, I hadn’t been back to your thread and seen the question. I just happened to revisit it today. It’s helpful if you hit the “reply” button, then I would get a notification that you asked me a question.

My house is currently a colonial with the stove in the front right corner of the house, on the first floor. When we bought the stove several years ago the house looked like a cape, but with with no living space upstairs, just a walk up attic; I guess that technically made it a ranch. The original house was a floor plan of about 900 sq ft. We already had three kids and a fourth on the way, so we decided to do an addition and put all the kids bedrooms upstairs and make an actual functional kitchen while we were at it. Before the addition, we went through 5 cords a winter. Since the addition, we have also gone through five cords a winter. The original house was built in 1938 and didn’t really have much in the way of insulation. The addition and the original house are now fairly well insulated.

My wife wanted the Boston, but it was slightly bigger than the Kodiak and we didn’t have the inch to spare according to the stove store. Good luck with the new stove.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

NGASN - I’m not sure why we’re getting dirty glass. That’s actually a question I was going to post. We’ve been getting totally unexpected amazing burn times (twice I’ve been able to do a hot reload after 12 hrs), which I thought indicates that we have pretty good wood. But then the dirty glass indicates that we may have wet wood, right? So which is it? They only thing that I can think of is that we have let the stove go out two or three times (due to warm weather), and so when it goes out, I would assume that at some point the temperature drops below the creosote temperature, which would result in some dirty glass?

I couldn’t figure out what to do with the cord at first, since it comes out on the left hand side and I need to plug it in on the right. The manual says to tuck it under the front, but I couldn’t fit it. I ended up just raising the front with the leveling screws until it would fit.

I’m curious what you mean by “let the stove go out..”. When does the glass get dirty, at the end or beginning of the burn?

You never want to use the air control to snuff out a fire too early. If you want to control the amount of heat then turn down the fan so the stove retains the heat (and dispersed it over a longer time) or do smaller loads. Smaller loads don’t really burn cooler but they burn in shorter cycles, less peak output time etc. Cat stoves are good at long burns at low output. Tube stoves get hot and then have to ride the peak down with a large load.

You should always have one of the following going on in the firebox

- Healthy primary flames (keep them vigorous before the peak and they can be lazier after the secondary burn dies down)

- Little if any primary but strong secondary flames. This is normally where the stove will be the hottest. If you want heat this is the time to turn the fan up a little.

- No flame or secondary but the coals are glowing red. This should only be at the end of the burn.

I usually shut the air down during the peak burn and open it back up a little after. You should only have small coals after it completely dies down naturally.

Are you sure about the cord being able to go in front? The manual is pretty silent about it going in front but it says to NOT put it under. I’d love it if I could route mine to the right. We now have puppies and it would be easier to shield the cord from them chewing on it if it routed to the right.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Actually I think I see what you saw in the manual. It says to run it in front of the surround along the floor. I read that as it goes in front of the surround along the floor instead of in between the surround and the brick wall. I don’t think this means that it can go the right. Your current set up might be a little dangerous. I’m sure the cord counts as a combustible.

Btw my cord apparently is wrong too - it’s behind the surround... I must have screwed that up when installed my block off plate. Darn it...

 

[illini81]

Glad to hear it's working out well for you so far. As for whether or not you have wet wood, pick up a moisture meter from HD or other hardware store, they're pretty cheap. Wet wood is typically the most likely scenario for dirty glass, especially for first-year burners, but not always either. You're bound to have to clean the glass every once in awhile throughout the season.

We don't get huge temperature swings either unless it's planned, such as letting the room cool down on a warmer day. The room my insert is in is typically between 75-80, and you're right, 80 in the winter time with the insert feels pretty good!

As it gets colder, how hard it is to maintain the temperatures you see today will depend on how well the house is insulated. Your burn times might get shorter if you need more heat output to maintain the temps and/or the furthest areas might be a little cooler due to heat loss along the way. For us, there isn't a whole lot of difference in burn times or temp differences, we just reload on a larger coal bed than this time of year.

Yeah, I'm really curious to find out how things will change with colder weather. I've never looked forward to cold weather before! It's funny how a stove changes things.

 

[illini81]

The glass could be as simple as when you load north to south, the splits offgas against the glass. The closer the split ends are to the glass, the more it happens. Glass doesn't look that bad. You can also cool the stove down and door a the dollar test around the door and make sure it is not leaking air anywhere, especially where the glass is getting dirty.
Don't go too nuts loading before the coals are burnt down, or you will end up with a shitload of coals piling up, taking away from room to load the new load.

Temperature swings are more noticeable in the colder days/night. Although everyone has different temp situations. On the colder nights, I might get about 5 -8 degree temp swing, not a big deal for me. That's just me of course. I don't like it 80 degrees, too hot for me.

Start researching humidifiers, the warmer feeling dry heat is nice, until you start getting static shocks everytime you touch something or someone. Well, some may like that...
I found a console works great for me.

Splits close to the glass definitely could be my issue. I have quite a few pieces in my stack that are a little longer than 20" (which is max length for North/South in the Boston) and so I end up putting them in slightly diagonally and/or they end up close to the glass.

No static shocks yet! Do you mind sharing the make/model of your humidifier?

 

[illini81]

I’m curious what you mean by “let the stove go out..”. When does the glass get dirty, at the end or beginning of the burn?

You never want to use the air control to snuff out a fire too early. If you want to control the amount of heat then turn down the fan so the stove retains the heat (and dispersed it over a longer time) or do smaller loads. Smaller loads don’t really burn cooler but they burn in shorter cycles, less peak output time etc. Cat stoves are good at long burns at low output. Tube stoves get hot and then have to ride the peak down with a large load.

You should always have one of the following going on in the firebox

- Healthy primary flames (keep them vigorous before the peak and they can be lazier after the secondary burn dies down)

- Little if any primary but strong secondary flames. This is normally where the stove will be the hottest. If you want heat this is the time to turn the fan up a little.

- No flame or secondary but the coals are glowing red. This should only be at the end of the burn.

I usually shut the air down during the peak burn and open it back up a little after. You should only have small coals after it completely dies down naturally.

Are you sure about the cord being able to go in front? The manual is pretty silent about it going in front but it says to NOT put it under. I’d love it if I could route mine to the right. We now have puppies and it would be easier to shield the cord from them chewing on it if it routed to the right.


View attachment 215130

By "let the stove go out" I meant that we've let the stove get cold without reloading (e.g. waited 24 hours or so before reloading). I was wondering if, as the stove cools down to room temperature, it eventually gets to the temperature that whatever is left of the coals starts to emit some creosote and dirties up the glass.

Thanks for the breakdown on what should be going on visually in the stove. Since you have the same stove as me, I'd be interested to know approximately how much time each stage (primary flames, secondary flames, glowing coals) takes for you on a full load of quality hardwood (oak or hard maple).

I think I have snuffed out the stove by shutting down the stove too early once or twice, but it didn't look right to me, so I opened up the air until the secondaries came back and looked healthy.

I agree with you that the manual is vague about the cord: "Route the electrical cord along the floor in front of the surround panel. There are cutouts in the castings to tuck the cord under." Is it supposed to be in front, or under? Not super clear. If you feel underneath the two vertical "posts" of the surround, there is a radius cut out of the back corner that I figured was intended for the cord. Now you've got me worried about it though. I'm 2 hours into a burn with a full load. I just measured the temperature in the region of the cord, and it's 140 F. That seems hot. I'm going to route it on the left hand side for now with an extension cord. I'll email Enviro to ask what is acceptable and let you know. Hopefully the right hand side is acceptable. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[illini81]

Sorry I haven’t responded, I hadn’t been back to your thread and seen the question. I just happened to revisit it today. It’s helpful if you hit the “reply” button, then I would get a notification that you asked me a question.

My house is currently a colonial with the stove in the front right corner of the house, on the first floor. When we bought the stove several years ago the house looked like a cape, but with with no living space upstairs, just a walk up attic; I guess that technically made it a ranch. The original house was a floor plan of about 900 sq ft. We already had three kids and a fourth on the way, so we decided to do an addition and put all the kids bedrooms upstairs and make an actual functional kitchen while we were at it. Before the addition, we went through 5 cords a winter. Since the addition, we have also gone through five cords a winter. The original house was built in 1938 and didn’t really have much in the way of insulation. The addition and the original house are now fairly well insulated.

My wife wanted the Boston, but it was slightly bigger than the Kodiak and we didn’t have the inch to spare according to the stove store. Good luck with the new stove.
View attachment 215124 View attachment 215125 View attachment 215126 View attachment 215127

Thanks for pointing out the "Reply" feature! I didn't realize that's how that worked. I will definitely use it in the future. Beautiful house and awesome remodel. That's amazing that your wood consumption didn't increase with the extra space. What is the typical temperature variation in your house, when it gets pretty cold?

 

[illini81]

I pulled the cord out and it actually has a temperature rating - 105 degrees Celcius (221 F) - etched into it. I also used the IR gun to measure the cord itself, and it was 95 F. That's only one data point though, and there's not as much safety margin on that as I would like. I guess we'll see what Enviro says is acceptable.

Or if any of you guys who actually install stoves have any thoughts on the cord placement, definitely chime in.

 

[begreen]

The cord can be routed under the side surround in the cutout area, but not across the stove front.

 

[saewoody]

Thanks for pointing out the "Reply" feature! I didn't realize that's how that worked. I will definitely use it in the future. Beautiful house and awesome remodel. That's amazing that your wood consumption didn't increase with the extra space. What is the typical temperature variation in your house, when it gets pretty cold?

Thanks for the compliment on the House. It was either move to a totally different part of town and risk new neighbors or the addition. We did blow-in insulation in all the existing walls and all the new construction is 2x6 walls to meet code. And now we actually have an insulated attic space, whereas before it was more like an unfinished second floor.

My wife like the living room, which is where the stove is, to be anywhere between 75-80. The warmer the better in her opinion! In the coldest days of the dead of winter that can sometimes be hard to keep up with, but that area is usually at least 72*. The upstairs will usually hold at least 68-69 through much of the winter, but again, on the coldest days it can get down to 64-65, but that is rare. If the kids complain too much we kick on heat and bump it until a couple degrees. The coldest place in the House is where the side addition connects to the garage. The heat has a tough time getting out there. That area will often see 63* with just the stove running. That area will often get the heat kicked on for a little while in the morning (it has its own heat zone separate from the rest of the first floor). I think this year I will try the fan blowing towards the stove method and see how it works. The upstairs heat rarely gets turned on, and the heat on the main part of the first floor never gets turned on. We basically run the stove 24/7 once winter really hits. We seem to get fairly good burn times. The temps in the house drop a bit overnight, but some fresh wood in the morning on the hot coal bed lights right up. On a side note, one thing that made a huge difference was going from the one story chimney to the two story chimney.

Best of luck! I’m happy to help anytime.


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[yooper08]

By "let the stove go out" I meant that we've let the stove get cold without reloading (e.g. waited 24 hours or so before reloading). I was wondering if, as the stove cools down to room temperature, it eventually gets to the temperature that whatever is left of the coals starts to emit some creosote and dirties up the glass.

By the time you're in the coaling stage, there's hardly (if any) moisture left to create creosote. Creosote comes in the name of smokey fires mixed with water vapor, which will be in the earlier stages of the fire. The best way to tell if its burning cleanly is to step outside and see if there's smoke.

 

[Hogwildz]

Splits close to the glass definitely could be my issue. I have quite a few pieces in my stack that are a little longer than 20" (which is max length for North/South in the Boston) and so I end up putting them in slightly diagonally and/or they end up close to the glass.

No static shocks yet! Do you mind sharing the make/model of your humidifier?

Kenmore 14G console Model 54200
I got lucky and got mine off ebay for $16.00 + $16.00 shipping. I have seen them here and there, Craigslist etc for some decent prices.

 

[Hogwildz]

Nit sure where in CT you are, but here are a couple.
The 2nd one is exactly like I have, may be newer as the 1dt has turn knobs.
https://hartford.craigslist.org/app/d/sears-humidifier/6360855320.html
https://worcester.craigslist.org/hsh/d/sears-whole-house-humidifier/6338105942.html

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Thanks for the breakdown on what should be going on visually in the stove. Since you have the same stove as me, I'd be interested to know approximately how much time each stage (primary flames, secondary flames, glowing coals) takes for you on a full load of quality hardwood (oak or hard maple)...

Things will be different when it gets cold because of a stronger draft. I did a load on Saturday morning starting at 6:00 am. It wasn’t the biggest load I’ve done. Two layers of hardwood (mostly oak) to the height of the bricks. Loaded north south and fairly loose and some pine kindling on top and some. Started with a super cedar in front of the dog house with a little more pine kindling going east west in front of the splits.

It was low forties here and rose to mid 50’s by early afternoon. Here’s generally what I saw. I didn’t really take notes so this all by memory - probably off by a little.

20 minutes or so with wide open air waiting for all the splits to catch.

15 minutes of staging down the air. Usually the seckndaries ignite on the first drop down.

3 hours of strong secondaries (glass grill effect) with some primary flames as well. Stove well into 500s or 600s (IR near pointed in front of the collar).

3 hours of lazy flames. Kind of like a lava lamp. Usually there is a primary burn that seems to be supporting the secondary. At this stage sometimes the primary is limited to an area but most splits are glowing lightly even if there is no flame. I would give a little more air at this point (maybe like a quarter open at most).

1 hour of primary only but the flames are really small.

That gets me to about 1:00 pm. Now I’m at coals only. Stove is holding steady at 300. Fan is at the lowest setting for a while. And eventually I’ll turn it off.

8:00 pm I come home from dinner. Didn’t measure the temp but the stove top is burning to the touch (not instantly but you can’t keep your hand there). See a little glowing here and there under the ashes. No plans for a reload so I open the door and pull the coals to the front. I could light a fire at this point without a match but I’d need lots of kindling. Open the air all the way to burn the coals away. Stopped thinking about the stove...

 

[illini81]

Nit sure where in CT you are, but here are a couple.
The 2nd one is exactly like I have, may be newer as the 1dt has turn knobs.
https://hartford.craigslist.org/app/d/sears-humidifier/6360855320.html
https://worcester.craigslist.org/hsh/d/sears-whole-house-humidifier/6338105942.html

Wow thanks! Those are a bit far of a drive for me, but I will start looking for that make/model on CL and Ebay.

 

[illini81]

Things will be different when it gets cold because of a stronger draft. I did a load on Saturday morning starting at 6:00 am. It wasn’t the biggest load I’ve done. Two layers of hardwood (mostly oak) to the height of the bricks. Loaded north south and fairly loose and some pine kindling on top and some. Started with a super cedar in front of the dog house with a little more pine kindling going east west in front of the splits.

It was low forties here and rose to mid 50’s by early afternoon. Here’s generally what I saw. I didn’t really take notes so this all by memory - probably off by a little.

20 minutes or so with wide open air waiting for all the splits to catch.

15 minutes of staging down the air. Usually the seckndaries ignite on the first drop down.

3 hours of strong secondaries (glass grill effect) with some primary flames as well. Stove well into 500s or 600s (IR near pointed in front of the collar).

3 hours of lazy flames. Kind of like a lava lamp. Usually there is a primary burn that seems to be supporting the secondary. At this stage sometimes the primary is limited to an area but most splits are glowing lightly even if there is no flame. I would give a little more air at this point (maybe like a quarter open at most).

1 hour of primary only but the flames are really small.

That gets me to about 1:00 pm. Now I’m at coals only. Stove is holding steady at 300. Fan is at the lowest setting for a while. And eventually I’ll turn it off.

8:00 pm I come home from dinner. Didn’t measure the temp but the stove top is burning to the touch (not instantly but you can’t keep your hand there). See a little glowing here and there under the ashes. No plans for a reload so I open the door and pull the coals to the front. I could light a fire at this point without a match but I’d need lots of kindling. Open the air all the way to burn the coals away. Stopped thinking about the stove...

That is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all the detail! During that first 20 minutes (or a portion of it), do you have the door closed but not latched, to let some air in from the door? Or do you latch it right away?

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

That is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all the detail! During that first 20 minutes (or a portion of it), do you have the door closed but not latched, to let some air in from the door? Or do you latch it right away?

I try to close it as soon as possible without letting the box fill with smoke. If I don’t like the amount of smoke then I leave it closed but not latched fully.

That’s why I try to do kindling in front - that seems to give the best quick close for me. Other people like the top down method which I do sometimes. Just depends on what kind of kindling I have. My preference is to start eight in front of the doghouse though.

 

[Hogwildz]

That is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for all the detail! During that first 20 minutes (or a portion of it), do you have the door closed but not latched, to let some air in from the door? Or do you latch it right away?

You shouldn't need the door unlatched unless you have a draft issue.
Let the air wide open for about 15-20 mins, if the splits are blazing good, start the air downward. You may be able to cut the air all the way to low, you'll have to experiment to see what works for your set up. Then let it be for till next relaod, load again on a nice bed of coals. If your not using oak or a similar wood, your times may vary. On shoulder days, you can get longer out of a load. Loads of large splits obviously will last longer than smaller splits.
For start up, I make a tunnel of a couple small to medium splits N/S, load the kindling in between them, then lay some splits across the top E/W. That will get you up to temp and your first layer of coals for a full reload when the time comes. When burning 24/7, full loads every reload. No need for kindling, just spread the coals out and load new load.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Hogwildz makes a good point that I might not have made clear. The “door open period” is like 3-4 minutes tops. It fans the flames but doesn’t do much to heat the stove because of all the cool air rushing in. You want a hot stove that can support the draft ASAP. Experiment and however you can figure out how to do that consistently (hint - get some super cedars) then do that.

 

[illini81]

Hogwildz makes a good point that I might not have made clear. The “door open period” is like 3-4 minutes tops. It fans the flames but doesn’t do much to heat the stove because of all the cool air rushing in. You want a hot stove that can support the draft ASAP. Experiment and however you can figure out how to do that consistently (hint - get some super cedars) then do that.

Gotcha. Sounds like I am leaving the door open (not truly open, just not latched) too long. I don't think I necessarily need it, I was just doing it b/c it seemed to allow the wood to light really quickly. I'll try leaving it open for just a few min and see how that works.

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Gotcha. Sounds like I am leaving the door open (not truly open, just not latched) too long. I don't think I necessarily need it, I was just doing it b/c it seemed to allow the wood to light really quickly. I'll try leaving it open for just a few min and see how that works.

Since you’ve had a few questions on what to do at different stages of the burn I figured I’d share a pic of my stove at cruising altitude. This is a load of pine 1/2 hour into a reload. Not much going on in the bottom but it’s not smokey and the flames on top are consistent but not crazy almost like a gas fire. I like the blue tinge on the flames.

Air is all the way shut down and stove top is measuring 550F. I might be able to maintain this for a while or maybe not. If the wispiness dies down then I’ll give a smidge of air back to it. If I was leaving I’d give a little just to be safe.

 

[saewoody]

I also leave my door open to get the fire going. But it is really just closing the door without engaging the latch. That gives plenty of draft for several minutes, then I will latch the door shut hi leave the damper wide open. Once the stove is up to temp I close the damper all the way.


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[Squisher]

The door should be closed tight as soon as possible. When I lit with newspaper I'd have to leave the door slightly cracked to feed enough oxygen in to support the paper burning. As soon as I switched to firestarters I can close the door tight immediately, because they start to burn much more slowly.

I have a highly sensitive thermocouple on my exhaust pipe to my digital read out auber unit and as soon as the door is opened exhaust temps immediately start to plummet. And conversely if the door is cracked at start up and then closed, exhaust gas temp starts to rise dramatically.

Now using firestarters, even though there is less flame at start up I get up to temperature quicker because the door is closed immediately.

 

[illini81]

Since you’ve had a few questions on what to do at different stages of the burn I figured I’d share a pic of my stove at cruising altitude. This is a load of pine 1/2 hour into a reload. Not much going on in the bottom but it’s not smokey and the flames on top are consistent but not crazy almost like a gas fire. I like the blue tinge on the flames.

Air is all the way shut down and stove top is measuring 550F. I might be able to maintain this for a while or maybe not. If the wispiness dies down then I’ll give a smidge of air back to it. If I was leaving I’d give a little just to be safe.

View attachment 215381

Thanks! Pictures are worth a thousand words. When you say that you'll add air if the wispiness dies down, or if you're leaving, that's because you don't want it to get snuffed out? Can that happen, once a fire has really gotten going?

 

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Thanks! Pictures are worth a thousand words. When you say that you'll add air if the wispiness dies down, or if you're leaving, that's because you don't want it to get snuffed out? Can that happen, once a fire has really gotten going?

“Snuffed Out” is a strong term but yes it’s possible to cut it down too much and you’ll enter the coaling - really smoldering - phase too soon. If you notice in my pic I have a lot of pieces that are charred but there is still a lot of energy left in them. At that point they are still off gasing but the smoke is burning up high. If the draft doesn’t continue as strong it’s possible the secondary burn won’t support itself and I’d get some visible smoke out the chimney and worse case the flames could die. If all the pieces were glowing then I wouldn’t be worried since all the dirty stuff has burned off already.

When I say I give a little air I mean I’d open about a pinkeys fingernail length. There’s a sweet spot for every load. Sometimes it’s pushed in all the way and sometimes it’s a little more open. You’re always better erring on the side of a little more air to keep the burn clean.


As with everything, every set up, every load is different. Sso just keep an eye on what’s going on in the firebox and what’s coming out of your chimney and adjust. Unfortunately I have a long but uninsulated liner so maybe you can get away with things I can’t.