Tax Credit Extension ?
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The home star program which is winding it's way through Congress would offer a similar (or better?) deal.
http://www.efficiencyfirst.org/home-star/
But it is not a sure thing. With the GOP slated to achieve gains in the Congress, it might be in danger. However, many New England (and possibly other?) GOP Congress people are in favor because their states (Maine, NY, etc. for instance) have decent biomass industries.
In any case, politics is surely involved as it seem to be now bundled with The Clean Energy Jobs and Oil Company Accountability Act.
Long story, but it is unlikely that the GOP would want this bill to pass......maybe they will be able to separate out some of Home Star and save it. Or, maybe it will come to a vote before the end of the year.
http://www.efficiencyfirst.org/home-star/
But it is not a sure thing. With the GOP slated to achieve gains in the Congress, it might be in danger. However, many New England (and possibly other?) GOP Congress people are in favor because their states (Maine, NY, etc. for instance) have decent biomass industries.
In any case, politics is surely involved as it seem to be now bundled with The Clean Energy Jobs and Oil Company Accountability Act.
Long story, but it is unlikely that the GOP would want this bill to pass......maybe they will be able to separate out some of Home Star and save it. Or, maybe it will come to a vote before the end of the year.
you know if enough constituants were to contact their representatives in favor of it the odds of it passing would likely be higher. read up on it , if you like it , contact your reps and support it.
Many folks don't realize that the present program is a non-refundable tax credit... if you don't have a tax liability equal to, or greater than the tax credit, you get zero... I know a few low income folks who are pretty tee'd off about it.
I cant see the right passing anything that will lower the use of fossil fuels. Hell, they could be mass producing electric cars 30 years ago if they wanted to.
Franks said:
You must have watched the movie "Who killed the electric car" it's worth watching if you haven't.
Dont have to. Electric cars exist..we can split atoms and go to the moon. We can provide an infrastructure for electric cars and produce the cars if we wanted to.
oldspark said:
Some probably are... I think everyone was expecting the tax credit without regard to income... turns out you need to earn a substantial income in order to get the full credit. I spent a couple grand this year on new insulation in my living room during a remodel but I probably won't get any tax credits because my income wasn't high enough this year... oh well.
My ex-biz partner was bragging how he got a 'free' electric golf cart this summer. It's one with the turn signals, horn, etc. that some states recognize as a 'low speed vehicle' and can be licensed for the streets. His problem is similar to mine... he won't have a $6500.00 tax liability this year because his business is in the crapper like many others... but he still insists he will get a check from the feds to reimburse him for the purchase... sorry Charlie!
The problem I see with electric vehicles is the power has to come from somewhere...NG, coal, wood or nuclear. The folks who are rabid supporters of plug-in cars/trucks are, many times, also opponents of new power plants... you can't have it both ways. I'd drive an electric in a minute... means more gasoline or E85 is available for my hot rod.
Yeah, what would the rest of us get in return for free money given for po' folk to upgrade to fuel-efficient, clean-burning heaters??oldspark said:
krooser said:
if someone has no tax liability why should they be looking to cut their taxes??? why should i have to help buy their stove???
stoveguy2esw said:
Some dealers sold the idea that it was a tax credit like a homestead tax credit... a refundable deal. It's not...
I don't think anyone should have to buy another person a stove... I couldn't afford a new one when I bought mine so I got a used one...
I know accountants have a dozen different special terms to describe these things, but I don't see the practical difference between the gov't sending $500 to Grandma Notax vs. not collecting $500 from Joe Taxpayer. It's a $500 loss either way. A tax break is as real a subsidy as a payout. Either one amounts to "paying for other people's stoves," but there seems to be a notion here that Joe is more deserving of a subsidy than Grandma, because she lives on Social Security and no longer pays taxes. Why should anyone pay for a stranger's stove? Well, in matters concerning the biosphere, the "Me and Mine" approach has proven to yield piss poor results. I think most of us would agree that more people heating with biomass in clean-burning stoves would be a good thing, for political reasons like reducing oil imports, as well as environmental reasons. How do we get there? Are "compassionate conservatives" buying stoves for anyone? If they are, I haven't heard about it.
One positive non-governmental program I have seen is www.projectwarm.com , which provides firewood to some folks deemed to be deserving. As I watched them deliver wood to Grandma after Grandma, who probably bought their smoke dragons back when they were tax payers, I couldn't stop thinking how great it would be for the program if they were all burning the wood in newer stoves that were twice as efficient. Any stove manufacturers interested in participating?
Franks said:
I agree
Big Oil, mainly Chevron blocked electric cars in California several years ago. We would have been so much further if the car companies would not have been influenced by the oil companies. We have the technology to go to the moon and mars (with robots) but man is too stupid and must burn every last drop of oil from the earth before he finds some intelligence to begin using renewable energy. People are creatures of habit. When the electric companies handed out free water heaters many many years ago in Florida, the people discontinued using solar water heaters. Solar thermal is one of our best options but many people in this country lack the education in RE to see the need for solar hot water systems. Water heating can amount to 14 - 20% of your electric bill. Think of how much freight could be hauled with all of that energy wasted just so us humans could have a Hot Bath/Shower for the last 100 years
! We could have been bathing with Solar Hot Water and saved that energy for future generations for absolute necesitites. My 2 cents worth!! As you can see, I support Solar and all renewables.
AR
krooser said:
AMEN
Would have been nice to drop 3grand on a brand new Harman......But i have to work HARD for the little money i make so i went to the olmighty craiglist and bought a 3yr old breckwell for 850 bucks. Bought all the pipe and did the install myself. Did get myself a Nice hearth pad for it though. All together i spent less than 1500 and could care less about a Stupid 1500 tax credit
Congratulations! You gents fit the official hearth.com profile of the rugged DIY individual. Unfortunately, the country no longer grows enough of us to solve all of the problems that we face. Again, I'm saying that more people burning biomass in clean, efficient heaters would be a good thing - economically, politically, and environmentally. If you disagree, please state why. If you agree, but you don't like subsidies(tax credit = subsidy = refund, IMO) for stove buyers, then how do you suggest we get more folks to heat with biomass? Do we just wait for this to happen via the magic of the "free" market?
It's up to the manufacturers to help create the demand by advertising and promoting their products. You have to create the need... nobody NEEDS a new car but many WANT a new car. Same goes for every consumer item... advertising creates the perceived need...Den said:
Most people I talk to have never heard of a pellet stove or know very little about them. I think most stoves are sold by word of mouth... I bought mine because my neighbor had one and so does a friend in the auto biz. Both guys pretty much sold me on the idea... I knew of my local dealer (that I bought my stove from) but I never was so inclined to stop in and see what they were all about until my two friends prodded me...
Granted most of the pellet manufacturers are relatively small business's compared to the auto companies, etc. But when's the last time you saw a pellet stove advertised on a national network show? I never have... it very expensive to buy those spots but you never even see much advertising done other than by the local dealers. The pellet manufacturers and the Pellet Institute need to hire a big PR firm to go out and get the word out.
The free market will determine the viability of pellet stoves... it has even in Europe where the free market is much less in vogue than in years past. pellet appliances sell well across the pond because of the huge taxes on fossil fuels... those taxes make pellets cheap in comparison to heating oil.
I bought my stove to keep warm... I really don't care if I'm 'green' or not... I really am 'green' because I live in a small house, drive old cars that I believe are more environmentally friendly than newer vehicles, I shut my light off when i leave a room, I recycle, etc. But I didn't need any 'movement' to do those things... I was raised that way. We had an old fella come around on a horse-drawn wagon in the 50's who would buy scrap metals, newspapers, etc. We saved out stuff because we made a little $$$ from it.
I just bought a '34 Ford sedan out of a junkyard... in a few years that car will be back on the road...put back together with used/recycled parts. My '56 Ford F100 is all recycled, too... the engine was a cast-off from an old irrigation pump in Texas, the transmission is from a Plymouth Volare...the rear axle from a '75 Dodge truck and the suspension from a '72 Plymouth. It will run on E85.
Anybody can open their wallet and buy a Prius...shipped 7000 miles from Japan on an oil guzzling cargo ship, made from plastic which is made from that nasty crude oil, shipped cross country on a train that belches black sooty smoke... delivered to a dealer by a semi-truck (that's the good part! :coolsmile: )... my hot rods are truly 'green'.
My Peterbilt is used to get goods to the marketplace. At 6+ mpg it's is much greener that a 50 mpg automobile... I can haul 50,000 lbs. of cargo... how much freight do those little puddle jumper cars haul? My truck is used to keep America fed, clothed and warm. Without trucks like mine we'd all be naked, cold and hungry!
Sorry for rambling on...
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