Too much heat in my game room

[PezPit]

My spectrum is in my gameroom/finished basement of our fairly large raised ranch thats built like a maze.. theres alot of heat down here and I had some success with the fan at the top of the steps pointing downward..but theres still alot of heat that I can move upstairs, I will purchase a blower and a small door fan over the summer,, were my stove sets I was considering cutting vents into the cold air return several of them between those 3 methods should be able to move some of the excess heat upstairs..Yes No Maybe ? I said before when we purchased this stove we never had any attentions on heating the upstairs but theres so much heat seems like a waste to not get some of it upstairs...Pez

 

[drozenski]

First, Never try and push cooler air down into a warm space. Hot Air wants to rise! Pull the warm air out with the fans. The cooler air will rush to the room to fill the space.

Second. Simple vents in the ceiling to the second floor will move a lot of heat no need to use your heating system. Heat wants to rise and will do so naturally. Vents to cover the holes can be gotten from home depot for $10

third, I use box fans to move air in my home. 1 blows air from the room to the stairs so it will rise to the second floor. Two other fans blow cooler air into the room. Works very very well. Also box fans on low use 2 cents worth of electricity an hour move tons of air and can be gotten for $5 if you pick them up in the fall when no one wants them any more. I got 5 from lowes in October for that price.

 

[tfdchief]

First, Never try and push cooler air down into a warm space.

Why not? It has been my experience that it is easier to move the cold air back to the source of the heat, than to try to move the heated air away from the source. Cold air is heavier and wants to go down the stairs anyway. Just wondering why you say to never try to push the cooler air.

 

[pen]

Sorry droz, but you have it backwards. Cold air is more dense. It's easier for a more dense object to displace a less dense one.

Picture this. You have to push a brick and a marshmallow w/ one finger across the floor of a room w/out damaging either. Which do you push first? If you push the marshmallow first (less dense) it squishes against the more dense object. Same w/ air. If you try and move the hot air it doesn't have the force to push the cold air.

If you allow heat to rise via vents you will become air locked if you don't have a cold air return. For yet another analogy, try shot gunning a beer w/ and w/out poking a hole in the bottom and see how you make out.

Additionally, if you cut any vents, hot air or cold air in nature, make sure you use vents w/ fusible links that will close if over fired. These vents are code in many places and just common sense for everywhere. If you make your house have solid air circulation from floor to floor, if you have a fire the place will go up like nobody's business w/ built in chimney's to help.

pen

 

[wkpoor]

I experimented this winter with ways to move more heat upstairs. Opening up the small forced air vents did little if nothing for me. Gravity heat is large volume and virtually no pressure. Next I put a fan on the second floor blowing air straight down the return air duct to the basement. I got an immediate 2 degree rise and that was all. To get circulation I'm going to need another big hole in the floor instead of alot of little ones. I have purchased (but not installed yet) an old cast iron, (with louvers) grate that measures 22x26 inches. I plan on putting it right over the stove. It still won't offset the the basement stairs opening but should move more air than what I've tried so far. If it catches fire then I hope it goes to ashes so it will be easer to start over.

BTW my basement stairs doesn't have a fusible link nor do they even have a door.

 

[gyrfalcon]

My spectrum is in my gameroom/finished basement of our fairly large raised ranch thats built like a maze.. theres alot of heat down here and I had some success with the fan at the top of the steps pointing downward..but theres still alot of heat that I can move upstairs, I will purchase a blower and a small door fan over the summer,, were my stove sets I was considering cutting vents into the cold air return several of them between those 3 methods should be able to move some of the excess heat upstairs..Yes No Maybe ? I said before when we purchased this stove we never had any attentions on heating the upstairs but theres so much heat seems like a waste to not get some of it upstairs...Pez

Bag the small door fan. It won't make enough of a difference to be worth it. Been there, done that. There's only so much of that warm air in room X, upstairs or down, you can move. What you're doing already by pushing the cold air down with a substantial fan on the floor is likely the best you'll be able to do. Personally, I wouldn't put vents from floor to floor since that's the A Number One way to ensure that any fire, whether as a result of the stove or something else, can move incredibly rapidly up through the house, particularly at night when you're sound asleep.

My 200 yo house has vents in the floors of the 2nd floor, and that's clearly the way people used to get heat upstairs, but they were long ago closed off. Tempted as I am some bitterly cold nights to open them up again, one of the last ways I'd like to die is by fire, so I leave them be.

 

[Shari]

I experimented this winter with ways to move more heat upstairs. Opening up the small forced air vents did little if nothing for me. Gravity heat is large volume and virtually no pressure. Next I put a fan on the second floor blowing air straight down the return air duct to the basement. I got an immediate 2 degree rise and that was all. To get circulation I'm going to need another big hole in the floor instead of alot of little ones. I have purchased (but not installed yet) an old cast iron, (with louvers) grate that measures 22x26 inches. I plan on putting it right over the stove. It still won't offset the the basement stairs opening but should move more air than what I've tried so far. If it catches fire then I hope it goes to ashes so it will be easer to start over.

BTW my basement stairs doesn't have a fusible link nor do they even have a door.

You would be doing your family and yourself a life saving action by checking with your local codes before you install this grate. Bet you find your local codes require a fusible link damper (fire damper).

 

[wkpoor]

I experimented this winter with ways to move more heat upstairs. Opening up the small forced air vents did little if nothing for me. Gravity heat is large volume and virtually no pressure. Next I put a fan on the second floor blowing air straight down the return air duct to the basement. I got an immediate 2 degree rise and that was all. To get circulation I'm going to need another big hole in the floor instead of alot of little ones. I have purchased (but not installed yet) an old cast iron, (with louvers) grate that measures 22x26 inches. I plan on putting it right over the stove. It still won't offset the the basement stairs opening but should move more air than what I've tried so far. If it catches fire then I hope it goes to ashes so it will be easer to start over.

BTW my basement stairs doesn't have a fusible link nor do they even have a door.

You would be doing your family and yourself a life saving action by checking with your local codes before you install this grate. Bet you find your local codes require a fusible link damper (fire damper).

We have no local codes. I live in the country and there are no building codes what so ever here. And I like it that way.
But my original thought was isn't the basement stairs a chimney in itself anyway? And that comes up right by our bedroom.

 

[Shari]

I experimented this winter with ways to move more heat upstairs. Opening up the small forced air vents did little if nothing for me. Gravity heat is large volume and virtually no pressure. Next I put a fan on the second floor blowing air straight down the return air duct to the basement. I got an immediate 2 degree rise and that was all. To get circulation I'm going to need another big hole in the floor instead of alot of little ones. I have purchased (but not installed yet) an old cast iron, (with louvers) grate that measures 22x26 inches. I plan on putting it right over the stove. It still won't offset the the basement stairs opening but should move more air than what I've tried so far. If it catches fire then I hope it goes to ashes so it will be easer to start over.

BTW my basement stairs doesn't have a fusible link nor do they even have a door.

You would be doing your family and yourself a life saving action by checking with your local codes before you install this grate. Bet you find your local codes require a fusible link damper (fire damper).

We have no local codes. I live in the country and there are no building codes what so ever here. And I like it that way.
But my original thought was isn't the basement stairs a chimney in itself anyway? And that comes up right by our bedroom.

Think about this a bit: You are planning on cutting a hole in the ceiling right above a fire source. What do you think you should do for the safety of your family and yourself?

You are comparing your basement stairs to a chimney. Again, think about it: Are your basement stairs right above a fire source? Answer: No.

Fire goes 'up' first and then spreads sideways.

'Up' first would be the hole you plan on cutting.

Seconds count in a house fire.

Put a fire damper in that hole you plan on cutting in. What does a fire damper cost, $70? How much do you value your life and the life of your family? Aren't those lives worth more than $70?

 

[wkpoor]

Many installs are close to the stairs. More than one has posted pic here of a stove right near a stairs. Mine is about 10' from the stairs. Sounds easy and cheap, sure I have no problem. Now just where do I buy a large floor grate with fire damper? I've seen the HVAC dampers but they are designed for duct.

 

[gyrfalcon]

We have no local codes. I live in the country and there are no building codes what so ever here. And I like it that way.
But my original thought was isn't the basement stairs a chimney in itself anyway? And that comes up right by our bedroom.

Ever notice the way fire surges up in your stove when you have two splits close together but with a small air space between them? Have you looked at the way the "chimney effect" works?

I also live in the country and we have no code anybody bothers with either, but there's a basic "stupid code" I try to follow anyway.

 

[Shari]

"... or put a smoke alarm near the grate? grate above the stove works best

Cutting a hole in the ceiling above a stove and just putting a grate on it creates an internal chimney without any type of damper.

You are missing the point. A fire damper contains an internal fusible link that melts when exposed to heat and closes internal fins within the damper therefore effectively closing off fire access to any area above the fire damper.

$70 for something that can save lives? Cheap insurance in my mind.

 

[Shari]

I also live in the country and we have no code anybody bothers with either, but there's a basic "stupid code" I try to follow anyway.

Love your comment!

 

[Shari]

Many installs are close to the stairs. More than one has posted pic here of a stove right near a stairs. Mine is about 10' from the stairs. Sounds easy and cheap, sure I have no problem. Now just where do I buy a large floor grate with fire damper? I've seen the HVAC dampers but they are designed for duct.

Just google 'residential fire damper' - lots of choices.

 

[oldspark]

My stove is close to the stairway and that's where the fire is going if I have one, not sure what the fuss is about with the grates and the fuseable links, not disagreeing just saying it seems like on some houses its like a fart in a whirl wind.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I also live in the country and we have no code anybody bothers with either, but there's a basic "stupid code" I try to follow anyway.

Love your comment!

Glad to amuse. Codes, particularly in urban areas, are full of crapola that was put in there to protect this or that interest group over the years, so it can be difficult for the ordinary homeowner to sort through what's genuinely important and what isn't. But when the code-oblivious country folk around here all shrink in horror from doing something, like putting two heating systems on one chimney or cutting vents in the ceiling to move heat upstairs, I take it real seriously.

 

[wkpoor]

I just got off the phone with 2 people in my area connected with the fire department. One was in fire prevention dept. Both said adding a fusible link damper would only buy me a extra few seconds because the fire will travel the ceiling straight for the open stairwell. In there opinion it was far more important to use good burning habits to prevent one in the first place. And they have never seen and install 2 foot sq like I'm wanting for the floor. Lots to choose from on line for HVAC duct install though. I like the idea of putting a smoke detector close to the grate.

 

[gyrfalcon]

My stove is close to the stairway and that's where the fire is going if I have one, not sure what the fuss is about with the grates and the fuseable links, not disagreeing just saying it seems like on some houses its like a fart in a whirl wind.

Yeah, well, crossing a busy street is hazardous, too, but crossing the street without looking at what's coming toward you is a whole different order of hazardous.

 

[wkpoor]

Just remembered my neighbors house has 2 stairwells to the basement. Both come up in the grate room and neither has a door. Whats the difference? Hole......stairwell????

 

[wkpoor]

When you get right down to it who is more likely to have a problem.....me with a stove downstairs surrounded and sitting on concrete 36" from walls.....or all the rest of you with a stove upstairs inches from the carpet and or hardwood floor?

 

[oldspark]

Just remembered my neighbors house has 2 stairwells to the basement. Both come up in the grate room and neither has a door. Whats the difference? Hole......stairwell????

I am on your side, the fire is going up the stairwell no matter what, I guess the fuseable links will make sure it only goes up the stairwell and they get to sell you a product to make money.

 

[wkpoor]

[/quote]how hot does the link have to get? how much smoke would be coming thru the grate before the link melts? whats the chimney effect?[/quote]
about 130 degrees I'm told.

 

[wkpoor]

Don't know about specific code but I'm bet half the old houses in my area even in town still have the floor grates open from yrs ago when they had gravity heat. In fact I know they do cause I lived in one. Don't remember anyone telling me I needed to close them off or.......else.

 

[Shari]

So as not to repeat myself, check out this posting: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/73661/#861414

 

[oldspark]

Shari, with all due respect it would not amount to a hill of beans in my set up, this is one reason I am happy I do not have to deal with the codes.