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Whats your school district doing about oil prices?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Richardin52, Aug 16, 2008.

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  1. hoverfly

    hoverfly Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    541
    Loc:
    Southern NH
    No offence you live off of a philosophy not reality, Tell the IRS to make companies stop using off shore account to avoiding paying taxes, how can one invest if one can only live day to day?, I am willing to bet some day you will stuff your pride and sign up for those service, the will to live is very strong even at an old decrepit age, you would be glad that some one younger is paying for it. Sorry extreme right Republican is just as bad as extreme left Democrat they live in their own little world and don't live in the real world of diversity.

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  2. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    Actually, no, I'm the one living in reality, thanks.

    In reality, you cannot put off payment indefinitely. Eventually, it all comes crashing down. We're in a recession, the dollar is collapsing... not too many years ago, an average family of four could survive on one income - now it takes two incomes to support that family.

    "Spend now, pay later" is not a sustainable system, any more than "oil will always be there" is. Eventually the oil will run out. Eventually, the economy will simply crash.

    Why do we need taxes? To support those who can't afford to invest. Why can't they afford to invest? Because of taxes. It's a vicious circle.

    There is no chance that I would ever do so. Some things are more important than mere survival. I've been young and unemployed, in the past. Never even considered asking for a handout.

    Democrats and Republicans are all the same, and all support the programs you're talking about.

    In the real world, 99% of the political spectrum is outside the "Democrat/Republican" zone.

    Joe
  3. ugenetoo

    ugenetoo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    141
    Loc:
    northern maine
    theres not a lot going to change in maine when fully one third of the population works for some form of govornment.be it state, federal, county, or municipal, these 1/3 control 2/3 of the vote and in my highly uneducated brain, thats a majority. look at the recent votes on tax reform and you will see a mirror of this. nothing will change until the state is in bankruptcy which will force layoffs that will change these numbers.IMHFO
  4. pellet0708

    pellet0708 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Messages:
    122
    Loc:
    Maine
    Biggest problem is centralized control systems that program heat for the entire school. Teachers can not control their own room temp. So if they are in a sunny room the heat continues to pump and they have to open a window and heat the outside. Makes me furious to drive by a school and see windows wide open in the middle of the winter! Who would do this in thier home when burning oil???
    I asked about it and they said another reason for opening windows is to get fresh air due to all the little bodies in the classrooms. Apparently the air handling systems are sub par or non existant also.

    More tax money out the window.
  5. glacialhills

    glacialhills Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Loc:
    S.W. Michigan
    Wow Moe, You are da man!!! What a great post. I have been saying those same things since I went to school and learned that school only makes kids into mind numbed robots.My kids learn more about who is pregnant, who just got busted for drugs in their locker and the latest swear words than I can believe. But ask them who is running for congress, why the constitution is important or even what it is and they look at me like I just spoke a foreign language(which they also dont have a clue about) I have always wondered why back in the day of one room school houses around here(heated with a central wood stove not oil by the way) there were large numbers of children in a single class, all different ages, and only one or two teachers and they seemed to learn things alright... And they wrote at college level, did complex mathematics, had outstanding penmanship,and treated school as a privilege and not a chore...oh and did all this without the need to complain about class size, or how the room is too hot or cold, having to walk to get there, and take turns bringing lunch for the rest of the class and not have a gym, swimming pool, huge bloated government agency, board of directors and on and on...

    Why on earth did we in our township just build a multi million dollar middle school and now have a perfectly usable building sitting empty? Because "its all for the children". Well I think we need to start over, get back to basics and dump this whole school bureaucracy. My kids would do just fine learning in a small unattractive building with no view out the window if the teachers were inspiring and my kids were challenged. I am all for teachers getting a well deserved salaries. And the ones that inspire their students should be getting top pay. But lets also be able to throw the bums out on their ears if they just sit behind their desk and read the paper, teach the same ole boring lessons they did from years ago when they got tenure, and are just putting their time in till summer vacation and looking forward to retiring. Our kids test scores should be the barometer not how much money we are spending on fancy buildings with all the latest and greatest. Just like in the military, there are no bad soldiers just bad leaders.
  6. Hansson

    Hansson Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    388
    Loc:
    Sweden,Leksand
    My school is heated whit pellets an solarpanels.
    They got an Viessmann boiler and pelletburner from Baxi or Janfire.Not sure
  7. pybyr

    pybyr Minister of Fire

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    2,301
    Loc:
    Adamant, VT 05640
    My Town's elementary school is heated with woodchips, and was one of the first in VT to put in a woodchip boiler, back in the late 80s if I remember right.

    The regional High School that serves my town also has been using woodchips for nearly 10 years.
  8. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    And, more than likely, they paid premium prices for that horribly-sub-par system.

    Teachers shouldn't be controlling room temperature, but each room should be its own zone, with its own temperature sensor. The temperature sensors and zone control lines can all be networked at locations around the building using digital I/O systems and connected to a central computer that can manage the whole systems (we have software available that can literally manage hundreds of zones at once, and use weather reports to give itself some adaptability). The same system can operate HRV's to keep the air fresh, and can even have sensors on the windows to set an alert if someone is leaving a window open for extended amounts of time on a cold or hot day.

    Modern technology is pretty impressive. Realistically, even older buildings can be retrofit with this sort of system, as well as biomass boilers for the actual energy production. Add geothermal for cooling and supplemental heating (at least, in this climate, where the cooling load is much smaller than the heating load in most cases)(particularly for a school, which isn't used much in the winter).

    Joe
  9. hoverfly

    hoverfly Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    541
    Loc:
    Southern NH
    Self sufficiency, I use to believe that but in reality it won't happen to every one. It's "unethical" to let those who can not survive to just simply to die. If you ran for NH Governor I will vote for you. But I won't put my money on you winning, to many think with there harts, not their minds.
  10. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,253
    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    Those who can't survive are a minuscule fraction of a percent. You could hod a few bake sales and raise enough money to help them survive.

    The problem is those who choose to demand that others support them, just because they'd rather not actually have to work.

    Pulling the net out from under them all at once would be a jerky thing to do. Weaning them off would be much better. Cut benefits 10% per year, and see how many find out that working for a living isn't so bad, after all.

    On the school subject, requiring them to cut things like fuel costs would go a long way towards fixing the system. I think there are few districts where a 10% reduction in fuel costs would not be extremely practical, and I think there are very many where a 50-75% reduction in their heating costs would be feasible.

    Joe
  11. Redox

    Redox Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
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    1,099
    Loc:
    Burbs of B'more, MD, Hon!
    Probably a Chiptec; they have a great gasification setup for large buildings.

    http://www.chiptec.com/customers.html

    I remember our school installing a fancy new zone system on the steam radiators for the high school. The cold rooms weren't any warmer and the hot rooms still had to open windows, but at least we had windows. Building automation only works when there is a good system in the building to begin with.

    Most of our schools have converted to gas where available, but the oil fired schools are still out there. I suspect more of my tax dollars will be going to "the Zone" than I care to. Everyone seems to be standing around helpless in the meantime.

    Heat recovery works if applied correctly, but I know schools that have to run refrigeration above 40F because of design problems. The internal gains from all those bodies adds up quickly. Most buildings with this kind of occupancy don't need heat above freezing. The school district's engineers seem to be a few years behind the rest of the industry, IMHO. Modulating outdoor air dampers for free cooling is a foreign concept to some people.

    We're still waiting on air conditioning. Our local middle school was just refurbished with new windows, roofs, ceilings, lights and fan coils that will support A/C, but we have yet to see a chiller on anyone's prints. Ironically, we have been replacing a lot of A/C equipment on schools that already had A/C, but the really old buildings go without. A/C can be a big deal around here as school is sometimes called early if the temps are too high in the spring and fall. If it is over 90 at noon, plan on picking up the kids early! What's ironic is that they have to close the schools WITH A/C at the same time because the buses would get all out of whack.

    Chris
  12. BrownianHeatingTech

    BrownianHeatingTech Minister of Fire

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    Loc:
    Northwood, NH
    Building automation only works when it is installed correctly. If the cold rooms are still cold and the hot rooms are still hot, that doesn't sound like it's the case. While the existing system puts certain physical limitations on the outcome, few systems are so badly-done that a proper automation system cannot provide significant performance increases.

    Should be part of the automation system.

    Your tax dollars at work. Replacing old systems with new ones gets you Federal (and sometimes State) money. Adding A/C to a building that does not currently have it, doesn't.

    Joe
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