Which Wood Insert For A Small Fireplace?

[KennyK]

Yeah, the soapstone stoves are beautiful but expensive. Woodstock has a nice sale going on now on theirs, but they're all side-loaders which will limit how far back you can put it in the fireplace. Used stoves can be a good buy, but you have to be careful. Don't buy a pre-EPA (1989) stove--they are smoke dragons generally and eat more wood. Look for signs of abuse and overfiring--a whitish color on black stoves and cracks in the cast iron or steel. Gaskets can be replaced, light rust can be sanded off and the stove repainted. Avoid used Vermont Castings stoves, they seem to have issues. Be very certain of your clearances and dimensions--used stoves can't be returned and there are a few folks around here who have bought used stoves only to find they won't fit.

Thanks! I'm corresponding with someone about a used Hearthstone Homestead right now. They say it's only a year old - again, if you have any further thoughts about what I should look for when checking it out (specific to this stove) that would be great.

Kenny

 

[fredarm]

With a soapstone stove look for cracks in the stone. It can be harder to see signs of overfiring (less metal to turn white) but if the inside looks beat, the stove probably was. I'm not familiar with the Homestead in particular (other than admiring pictures of it on the Chimney Sweep web site), but in general, make sure any control levers move smoothly and the baffle and tubes in the top (or whatever it has) are in good shape. If it's connected and you can see it burn, so much the better! Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[begreen]

Yeah, the soapstone stoves are beautiful but expensive. Woodstock has a nice sale going on now on theirs, but they're all side-loaders which will limit how far back you can put it in the fireplace. Used stoves can be a good buy, but you have to be careful. Don't buy a pre-EPA (1989) stove--they are smoke dragons generally and eat more wood. Look for signs of abuse and overfiring--a whitish color on black stoves and cracks in the cast iron or steel. Gaskets can be replaced, light rust can be sanded off and the stove repainted. Avoid used Vermont Castings stoves, they seem to have issues. Be very certain of your clearances and dimensions--used stoves can't be returned and there are a few folks around here who have bought used stoves only to find they won't fit.

Thanks! I'm corresponding with someone about a used Hearthstone Homestead right now. They say it's only a year old - again, if you have any further thoughts about what I should look for when checking it out (specific to this stove) that would be great.

Kenny

Before proceeding, check the clearances requirements for this stove. I don't have the manual with me right now, but IIRC there are conflicts on the sides and with the mantel. Also, this is a wide stove which means it will not sit very far back in the opening. It will be sitting mostly on the hearth.

 

[KennyK]

Yeah, the soapstone stoves are beautiful but expensive. Woodstock has a nice sale going on now on theirs, but they're all side-loaders which will limit how far back you can put it in the fireplace. Used stoves can be a good buy, but you have to be careful. Don't buy a pre-EPA (1989) stove--they are smoke dragons generally and eat more wood. Look for signs of abuse and overfiring--a whitish color on black stoves and cracks in the cast iron or steel. Gaskets can be replaced, light rust can be sanded off and the stove repainted. Avoid used Vermont Castings stoves, they seem to have issues. Be very certain of your clearances and dimensions--used stoves can't be returned and there are a few folks around here who have bought used stoves only to find they won't fit.

Thanks! I'm corresponding with someone about a used Hearthstone Homestead right now. They say it's only a year old - again, if you have any further thoughts about what I should look for when checking it out (specific to this stove) that would be great.

Kenny

Before proceeding, check the clearances requirements for this stove. I don't have the manual with me right now, but IIRC there are conflicts on the sides and with the mantel. Also, this is a wide stove which means it will not sit very far back in the opening. It will be sitting mostly on the hearth.

Thanks again BeGreen,

I just looked at the Homestead manual, and I find it very confusing. If you can help me determine if it would work with my setup, that would be great. Let me know if you need any more measurements from me. A couple factors that I'm wondering are if the stove has a fan does that make any difference in the setup (the used one I'm looking at has a fan), also if being in or in front of a fireplace makes a difference in terms of clearance (also the brick in my fireplace is covered by metal). I have also decided that I'm not opposed to extending my hearth with a hearth pad, especially if it doesn't have to be too big, and I am also not opposed to putting up some sort of a metal piece under the top (or along the sides) of the mantel - but I don't really know what I'm getting into here!

Lastly, I just spoke with my home insurance agent. He told it wouldn't affect my insurance as long as I had a UL approved receipt, made sure it complied with regulation and had it fire inspected. When I mentioned that I might be buying a used stove, he told me to check online to make sure that the model is UL approved if bought used. Any thoughts on that one? Ideas about how to figure out if buying used it is still UL approved?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

I would give up on the Homestead unless you are prepared for serious changes to the fireplace. The Homestead has high hearth insulation requirements and in this fireplace is not close for clearances.

 

[KennyK]

I would give up on the Homestead unless you are prepared for serious changes to the fireplace. The Homestead has high hearth insulation requirements and in this fireplace is not close for clearances.

BeGreen, first, you are amazing! I can't believe you made this photo for me Thanks!

Now, unfortunately, I want the homestead even more after seeing this photo It looks sooooo good there - like it's meant to be! I also spoke with a guy tonight who is selling a used one about an hour drive from me. He said it's in great shape, hasn't been used much, has a fan, and he wants $1400, which seemed pretty fair.

What would I need to do to make the homestead work in my fireplace? Could I get some sort of fireplace shield? What if I got the optional surround kit?

Kenny

 

[kingquad]

I would give up on the Homestead unless you are prepared for serious changes to the fireplace. The Homestead has high hearth insulation requirements and in this fireplace is not close for clearances.

BeGreen, first, you are amazing! I can't believe you made this photo for me Thanks!

Now, unfortunately, I want the homestead even more after seeing this photo It looks sooooo good there - like it's meant to be! I also spoke with a guy tonight who is selling a used one about an hour drive from me. He said it's in great shape, hasn't been used much, has a fan, and he wants $1400, which seemed pretty fair.

What would I need to do to make the homestead work in my fireplace? Could I get some sort of fireplace shield? What if I got the optional surround kit?

Kenny

Unfortunately, that mantle would have to go away completely. You would probably have to do some demo to the wall as well, just to meet safe clearance to combustibles. Nice thing about that is that you can reface it anyway you choose. Stone veneer, tile, whatever. Depending on what the floor under the stove is made of, you may need to build the hearth up to meet the thermal insulation requirements of this stove. They are quite high.

Basically, this is a very big job before you can even think about installing this thing.

 

[KennyK]

I would give up on the Homestead unless you are prepared for serious changes to the fireplace. The Homestead has high hearth insulation requirements and in this fireplace is not close for clearances.

BeGreen, first, you are amazing! I can't believe you made this photo for me Thanks!

Now, unfortunately, I want the homestead even more after seeing this photo It looks sooooo good there - like it's meant to be! I also spoke with a guy tonight who is selling a used one about an hour drive from me. He said it's in great shape, hasn't been used much, has a fan, and he wants $1400, which seemed pretty fair.

What would I need to do to make the homestead work in my fireplace? Could I get some sort of fireplace shield? What if I got the optional surround kit?

Kenny

Unfortunately, that mantle would have to go away completely. You would probably have to do some demo to the wall as well, just to meet safe clearance to combustibles. Nice thing about that is that you can reface it anyway you choose. Stone veneer, tile, whatever. Depending on what the floor under the stove is made of, you may need to build the hearth up to meet the thermal insulation requirements of this stove. They are quite high.

Basically, this is a very big job before you can even think about installing this thing.

Well, I guess this stove is out of the question :-( Back to the drawing board. So, going back to square one, any thoughts on a nice insert that will work or a nice stove that will work for this area? My hopes are something that will heat well, burn for a while without having to add more wood, have a nice large window (as large as I can get in any case), and look nice overall.

Kenny

 

[KennyK]

Ok friends, I'm still working on this and could use some help! What about the lopi endeavor? It has very low clearance requirements, and it seems to fit (perhaps) partially into my fireplace. One issue I'm seeing is that it says on their site that with steal legs it's 29 1/4 tall, which would just make it into my 30" tall fireplace. However, it says that those legs are discontinued And, with the sculptured or cast legs that it now comes with, it's 30 5/8. Is this for real!?!?! Can I still get one with the steal legs? Other thoughts? It looks like a great stove.

 

[begreen]

I looked at the Endeavor this morning and came to the conclusion that most stoves will not work because of either the clearances to combustibles or the rear slope of the firebox. There may be a shallow 15" at the back bottom of the fireplace, but what is the distance from the front of the fireplace at the lintel to the back of the fireplace? That appears to be the limiting factor, but you have the tape measure. Also check at the insert in question's height, from the front to the back.

 

[KennyK]

I looked at the Endeavor this morning and came to the conclusion that most stoves will not work because of either the clearances to combustibles or the rear slope of the firebox. There may be a shallow 15" at the back bottom of the fireplace, but what is the distance from the front of the fireplace at the lintel to the back of the fireplace? That appears to be the limiting factor, but you have the tape measure. Also check at the insert in question's height, from the front to the back.

I'm not 100 percent sure if I understand what exactly I need to measure here, but I'll try my best. I just remeasured and it looks like from the front of my fireplace at the top to the back it's closer to 14-3/4 inches than 15 as I had thought (even more of a bummer!). From what I understand the lintel to be, it doesn't hang down lower than the 30 inches height of the fireplace opening, but it starts about an inch (or a little less) in from the front, which has a half inch or so of marble. So, from the edge of the lintel to the back of the fireplace it's about 13 3/4" or 14." If I get an insert, can't I pull it out a bit so it's completely flush? Are there no wood stoves that will work (and kick of a lot of heat for a long time)! There must be lots of people in the northeast with fireplaces like this (my house like others around here was built in the late 1800s). Aren't there companies that make stoves for older fireplaces?

Thanks again BeGreen, you're a HUGE help. The dealer I've been talking with is very unresponsive. He did make a trip to my house and I understand this is their busy season so I'm not completely writing him off, but if I don't get more input from him soon, I'm going to look around for another dealer.

Thanks!

Kenny

 

[KennyK]

Any further thoughts?

 

[begreen]

You have a few small insert options. The primary limitations are the depth, rear width and clearances to combustibles. Secondary issues will be the look. It would be a shame to tear out the woodwork to accomplish clearances for a bigger insert of freestanding stove. That's why I suggested thinking about the Valor for this location.

There is one option that might be worth considering and talking with a good dealer about. That would be installing a Morso 1710 insert either without any surround or with a custom surround. It has a clean look that would work well visually with this location. The insert is about 3/4" too deep, but a good installer could disguise this. The 1710 is strictly a convective insert, no blower option. A mantel shield would be required, probably at the top of the lintel. With its small firebox it would be an area heater only.

http://www.morsona.com/index.php/inserts/morso-1710.html
dimensions:
http://www.morsoeusa.com/Files/Billeder/Morsoe/CAD/US ovne/1700-101_Isometrisk_målskitse_1710_NA_klippet_inches.jpg

If the goal is better heating and a traditional steel stove is ok, then I like the Lopi Answer insert with a blower as a fitting solution.
http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=253

 

[KennyK]

You have a few small insert options. The primary limitations are the depth, rear width and clearances to combustibles. Secondary issues will be the look. It would be a shame to tear out the woodwork to accomplish clearances for a bigger insert of freestanding stove. That's why I suggested thinking about the Valor for this location.

There is one option that might be worth considering and talking with a good dealer about. That would be installing a Morso 1710 insert either without any surround or with a custom surround. It has a clean look that would work well visually with this location. The insert is about 3/4" too deep, but a good installer could disguise this. The 1710 is strictly a convective insert, no blower option. A mantel shield would be required, probably at the top of the lintel. With its small firebox it would be an area heater only.

http://www.morsona.com/index.php/inserts/morso-1710.html
dimensions:
http://www.morsoeusa.com/Files/Billeder/Morsoe/CAD/US ovne/1700-101_Isometrisk_målskitse_1710_NA_klippet_inches.jpg

If the goal is better heating and a traditional steel stove is ok, then I like the Lopi Answer insert with a blower as a fitting solution.
http://www.lopistoves.com/product_guide/detail.aspx?id=253

I'm feeling discouraged. When I began my interest in a good stove, I never realized I would have such a hard time. The dealer recommended the regency i1200 (.2 smaller of a firebox than the lopi answer). I'm feeling like if I get a really small stove, I'm going to be unhappy with the heat production and burn times. So, what to do? A couple questions: is it possible to do some masonry work and make my fireplace larger? I've had one person tell me this was possible and another tell me it was unsafe. If it is possible, how big/expensive of a job is this? If I am going to modify, how big/expensive of a job is it to take out my mantle and replace with something simple, but that will allow me to get a bigger insert or freestanding stove?

BeGreen, I know you say it's a shame to take out this mantle (and I agree it is very nice), but what other options do I have? In any case, if these jobs cost a lot, it may be prohibitive.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Kenny

 

[begreen]

The Answer is not a bad stove. We have a lot of happy owners here.

I would not modify the fireplace structure. However, the mantel and trim are all surface and could be changed to accommodate a hearth stove. Though the look would be different, it could be tastefully done.

 

[KennyK]

The Answer is not a bad stove. We have a lot of happy owners here.

I would not modify the fireplace structure. However, the mantel and trim are all surface and could be changed to accommodate a hearth stove. Though the look would be different, it could be tastefully done.

Thanks BeGreen. I forgot to mention that the dealer said that the alterra would fit ("just barely" were his words). I'm assuming he means the CI1200 and not the CI1250. Does that seem right to you? And if so, do you think that's better, worse or equal to the answer? How long of a burn time do you think I can get out of these stoves and how much space do you think they'll heat with my ceiling fan on reverse?

Kenny

 

[begreen]

I looked at the Alterra this morning and my preference was for the Lopi Answer with the larger firebox.

 

[fredarm]

Just remember, any insert is better than an open fireplace. I was limited to a small insert by the size of my fireplace, but I still love it. Do I wish it was a little bigger sometimes? Sure. But it is what it is and it puts out a lot of heat for its size. Your fireplace is too beautiful to tear out IMO.

 

[KennyK]

Thanks again everyone!

Okay, so is there absolutely no chance that I can get a lopi 1750 or lopi endeavor in there? I'm happy to put up any heat shield and extend the hearth. Thoughts?

 

[jjs777_fzr]

What I would do....

Just go out and buy any free standing stove - hook the thing up and start burning wood and enjoying the benefits.
No doubt the help here in this thread is fantastic but you've over analyzed the whole thing and have lots of options (were on page 4 lol)

The above assumes clearances are met for top bottom and sides etc etc.

If you need help lifting something - I'll give you a hand - I work on state st and live a 20 miles north - my parents are in winthrop.

I'm not trying to be a buzz kill here..but for me I like 'seeing' how things look then trying it out...and switching it out and seeing something else.
I may also be addicted to warm cozy fires whether by wood or coal or pellet.

For example you could pick up anyone of various stoves on craigslist for short money and see how it is.
Then upgrade later and whatever you got and didnt like just throw on cl again or ebay.

-John