Wood Stove Noobie - Vogelzang Defender

[Aaron9876]

I am looking at buying a Vogelzang "The Defender" for a small cabin i am currently finishing. My questions for you veterans are

1) what is the maximum burn time i can expect from one of these? That is using primarily oak possibly with some honey locust stuffed to the brim, I believe it has around a 2 cf firebox. The cabin is 15'x30' with a loft on each end (450 sf), ceiling is 7' tall at sides with pitched ceiling up to around 12'. Cabin is insulated with R-13 on all sides, roof, and floor, and underpinned , should be relatively air tight. Also is their anyone who has a substantial complaint about these stoves, they are small but mostly have good reviews and are pretty cheap at around $450 for a bare bones one.

2) Honey locust - what is offical ruling on that wood, some people say its the best stuff in the word, other say it will melt your stove? I've never burned it before...

3) I unfortunately only bought this cabin about 2 months ago so i dont really have a supply of dried wood, I will cut up dead trees that have been laying for a while but it will still be relatively wet. Chimney will be fairly short and easy to clean, just kinda curious what kind of problems i can expect from that.

Any advice is appreciated...

 

[Simonkenton]

I burn a lot of black locust. Honey locust does not grow around here. However, black locust is one of the best firewoods available for the wood stove owner. Burns a long time and holds coals better than any other wood available to me.
I just looked up honey locust on the firewood charts and it is almost identical to black locust. So it is a great firewood for you, and, no, it won't melt your stove.

You really need dry wood for these new wood stoves. You need to set some pressure treated 4x4s on the ground, a foot apart, and split and stack your firewood on them, so the wood is off the ground, and you need to put a sheet of roofing tin on top, to keep the rain off and start drying out your firewood!

 

[begreen]

Short chimney + wet wood = wimpy heat, dirty chimney and grumpy owner. You'll want to follow the manual here and get at least 15ft of pipe on the stove and find some dry wood. Maybe start chopping up palettes to mix with your split wood?

 

[Owen1508]

The firebox on that unit is 1.3 cu.ft. It is an EPA certified stove so you will want to burn properly seasoned wood. Like BG said as well you will want the 15 foot of pipe at least. There will be some of a learning curve if this is your 1st EPA cert. stove. but once you learn it you should have no problems getting a load to burn overnight.

 

[Jags]

You are probably spot on with the sizing of the stove. 450 sqft will be tough to manage with anything much bigger unless you like to heat the outdoors too. At 1.3 I would venture a guess that by morning you are scraping up live coals to fire it back up, but I don't see much of an alternative.
Treat that stove right by doing what you have to do to feed it nice dry stove chow and it will reward you with the best possible burn experience and performance.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Funny you should ask this question as this past weekend i installed my new Defender in my north woods retreat and ran it for the first time over 2 nights. . My initial thoughts are as follows.
1. I found it very frustrating trying to get an initial fire going. I'd have to leave the door open ( more than cracked) to get a nice blaze going only to close the door and see the flame smoulder right out. I think next time i'll try all small kindling wood to start until i get a nice bed of coals instead of kindling under a few small logs. So i wasn't happy about that but it may be a learning curve. Chimney is only about 12 ft too, but draft didnt seem to be an issue. Course now that i think about it writing this maybe it is a issue. Maybe fresh air isnt getting pulled in enough and it is an issue..
2. I can already see im going to use way less wood than my old box stove (obviously) and i was impressed with the burn time. I didnt pack it full cause it wasnt that cold out but i got about 4 hrs off a couple logs. Im thinking packed full i might get 6 hrs.
3. small box size. You can only really do 2 smallish logs 16 inches long sideways which tends to leave a lot of unused space. Im thinking for overnight burns i might be better off cutting some logs 8 or 9 inches long and loading them N/S to be able to pack more in there but that means recutting all my current wood in half.
4. I was pleased with the heat out put, seemed to really kick it out.
5. No complaints on the blower fan, ran quiet enough to suit me but doesnt really move a lot of air even on high.
6. I can see cleaning ash is going to be a pain in the ash. Going to have to deal with hot ash embers and its going to need to be cleaned often i think.
7. glass stayed clean (so far) and was a real pleasure being able to view the fire.

Overall im happy after 2 nights of use so far. We'll see what colder weather and more use brings. Oh i also found that by tipping it onto two legs i could walk the stove over where i needed it by myself.

 

[Owen1508]

Yeah loading the smaller stoves is challenging. It can be loaded up to about 2-3" from the heat exchanger tubes as well

 

[Jags]

Chimney is only about 12 ft too, but draft didnt seem to be an issue.

Remember - that stack is gonna act different on a cold startup vs a hot stack. What drafts well with an established fire, could be marginal for a cold start.

 

[Huntindog1]

Dry wood is very important. You will eliminate alot of frustration if you find a source of good dry wood.
Burn time at best 6 hours even though the defender stove says it can do 8 hours.
Dry wood will actually help you get more burn time as the dry wood lets you get the stove temps up fast when your loading on a hot bed of coals.
Most people loose burn time as they burn alot of their main load of wood of sub par woodjust trying to get temps up in the stove so then they can get the stove turned back down to its lowest level for a long burn cycle, which includes the time of good hot coals still putting off heat.
Load with a good dry wood 20% moisture or less on a hot bed of coals I would still use a super cedar loading on hot coals to get temps up faster in the stove so the stove can get shut back down sooner before burning too much of the main load you need. A few pieces of small kindling will help also. You will have to learn the feel for the stove , it will take time.

Or get up in the middle of the night and put another load on.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

Or get up in the middle of the night and put another load on.

speaking of which, what is the procedure for that? My old box stove i just got up, stumbled out, loaded it up, shut the door and went back to bed still half asleep. With these new fangled stoves do you have to sit and let the wood get charred and adjust the air and babysit it in the middle of the night for awhile? By that time i'll be wide awake.
Or can you just stuff some logs in there and go back to bed right away?

 

[Owen1508]

Best way to re load that defender (recommended way any how) is to open the air intake all the way, wait for the flame to burn bright then open, re load, and adjust the damper down. This will help in not allowing smoke or gases to escape into the living area. IMO.

 

[begreen]

Yes, a reload takes a bit more time and care. If the wood is dry and the coal bed hasn't dwindled to mostly ash, it takes maybe 5-10 minutes for the new wood to ignite and to drop down the air supply for the long burn. I'm a bit skeptical about this stove holding a good overnight fire when it is cold outside, but will defer to Owen's experience. Maybe it will be ok with locust. That burns for a long time. Have some good kindling and smaller splits on hand to get it going.

 

[Owen1508]

Pine would no way be 8 hours, but with that locust and stacking to just under the heat tubes fully, It can be done, tricky but possible. 8 would be the max. you could achieve with that FB.

 

[brenndatomu]

I put a Defender in last fall. You'll get about 4, maybe 5 hours of usable heat from a full load if you are using good hardwoods. I found that it really likes a couple inches of ashes left in the bottom. With burning said hardwood, and ashes left to build up, I would have enough coals left for a matchless relight in the morning about 75% of the time.

KindredSpiritzz, you will find that that stove will take cold starts much better as the weather cools off. My chimney is a bit taller than yours and I couldn't get the stove to stay lit when I closed the door on my maiden run either. But then once it got cold I had to cover some of the air intake holes just to get a load to last more than a couple hours. I think we PMed about this before maybe. If not, here's a link to the post...https://www.hearth.com/talk/posts/1624431/
Oh, and regarding the middle of the night reloads...if you load 'er up, slam the door, and go back to bed, you are gonna have a box of charcoal and a cold house in the morning. Been my experience anyways...these Defenders seem to like to be fiddled with until you get 'em in "cruise" mode.

 

[Woody Stover]

I will cut up dead trees that have been laying for a while but it will still be relatively wet.

If you can find small dead trees, those can be really dry. More messiin' around, but you can get some good, dry wood that way...

 

[Aaron9876]

Thank you all for the responses, the cabin will have some electric heaters so a full overnight burn isn't 100% necessary just preferable. I live in north missouri...winters can occasionally be mild or in the case of last winter cold as balls make even old man winter reach for some whiskey just to keep warm. I really just want something to keep electric bills managable. Sounds like chimney height is crucial...cabin is only a total of about 12 ft tall so I guess it will just have to stick up way past the roofline...does chimney height indoors with regular stove pipe add to the effective draft height? N/S loading? Is this logs sitting vertically? Sounds like a larger firebox would be better but honestly idea probably roast myself and I need something on the cheapish side. I've seen some threads about restricting some of the vent holes on the defender to get better burns. Has anyone messed with that with success? Also in chimney damper seems the running theory is to just go ahead and install one and use it if necessary...any thoughts towards that. Stoves I've used in the past dampers didn't seem to be very helpful.

 

[BrotherBart]

Chimney height is from the base of the stove to the sky. N/S loading is putting the splits into the stove front to back with the end of the splits looking you in the face. E/W loading is placing them side to side across the firebox width like a fireplace.

N/S hotter shorter burn. E/W slower burn.

 

[Huntindog1]

speaking of which, what is the procedure for that? My old box stove i just got up, stumbled out, loaded it up, shut the door and went back to bed still half asleep. With these new fangled stoves do you have to sit and let the wood get charred and adjust the air and babysit it in the middle of the night for awhile? By that time i'll be wide awake.
Or can you just stuff some logs in there and go back to bed right away?

Its not that your got to let the wood char but its actually about building the heat up in the stove. Once the heat builds up you can sustain secondary flames in the top. Its the heat level that starts the wood off gassing and heat that ignites the gases.

If your gonna do a reload in the middle of the night set a load of your driest wood in close to the stove (not too close!). The wood being extra dry and sitting in by a warm stove and then put on a hot bed of coals is gonna light off quick and easy. Cold damp wood from outside is gonna start up slower. You could throw on a few pieces of kindling as it will flame up quicker for you or use a super cedar to speed things up.

 

[Jags]

And with a short stack you have no reason for a damper. Don't waist the time (and it will get in the way when you clean the stack). Using one to slow down what will already be a sluggish draft is not recommended.