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Woodburning Insert Installation Tips (Hearthstone Clydsdale)

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by WIT Performance, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. WIT Performance

    WIT Performance New Member

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    Purchased a Hearthstone Clydesdale having the place I purchased it from Ashwood fireplace in Patchohue li ny install it. Was going to tackle it my self but with the tax savings of a capital improvement it didn't make sense.
    They are charging $750 for the install and want to make sure it is installed right w/o any corners being cut. I'm saving about 350 in taxes having it installed.

    Just wanted to make sure it gets installed correctly I have a masonary chimney 13 x 13" clay flu they will be installing a 6" stainless liner 18 ft to the top.


    How should it be insulated? ( Installer mentioned sealing at top of chimney and at the damper w/ sounded like regular R30 fiberglass not Roxul which I read on here should be used? I asked if there would be a metal block off plate at the damper which didn't seem like they are going to install one...If there is no block up plate what will prevent the insulation from falling onto the insert is this a possible fire hazard?


    I have natural stone around the opening which sticks out wanted to know if it could be mortared in to avoid seeing gaps didn't seem like installer wanted to bother. Would rather not grind bricks in case I ever sell house and remove insert

    I also have a Vacu-stack on my current chimney to eliminate a down draft (came with the house I bought last yr) not sure if it's needed anymore? Installer said I wouldn't need it but I wasn't confident in his answer.


    I will attach a few pictures of the stone and chimney with vacu-stack below. Any help would be appreciated!!

    2012-12-10_15-48-05_162.jpg 2012-12-10_16-34-03_622.jpg

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  2. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    As regards to insulating the liner, I would insulate the entire liner with 1/2" insulation. If your chimney has a vacu-stack cap on it, I would worry about draft. I would try to do everything possible to get best draft as possible. Your chimney isn't that tall and it is an exterior chimney, other reasons I would insulate the entire length

    It should be insulated with a high density insulation used for chimney liners, it has a foil backing on it to reflect the heat back to the liner. Since your current flue is 13x13 this will be very easy to install with the insulation. This style of insulation is secured to the liner and is impossible to fall off if done correctly.
  3. WIT Performance

    WIT Performance New Member

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    So would the vacu--stack give me a better draft?

    How would you insulate the damper of the original brick fireplace? (the damper metal flap is currently out)
  4. chimneylinerjames

    chimneylinerjames Feeling the Heat

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    Well the vacu-stack wont give you better draft, it will help alleviate some of the symptoms of a down draft. The other option is raising the chimney.

    You insulate the liner, it is like a blanket that gets wrapped around the liner. Then you could, many people seem to like this idea, is to install some sort of horizontal plate above the stove with some insulation on that also.

    This page show you what I am talking about. http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/
  5. sticks

    sticks Member

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    Totally agree with chimneylinerjames. Insulate the liner. As for the vacu-stack I would bet it was put on for the wrong reason. Vacu-stacks are great for wind induced down drafts which I guess you could have. The first thing that sticks out to me is the one story attached to the two story. Any air leaking out the top of two story can sometimes be replaced with air from the fireplace which creates the down draft. The insulated liner makes for ahotter flue which creates better draft and hopefully counteracts the downdraft. Would love to see a picture of the finished install. The Clydesdale is a beautiful insert.
  6. loudog

    loudog Member

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    The manual calls for a blockoff plate, so I'd make sure that goes in.
  7. flyingpig

    flyingpig Member

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    Not sure you have enough room in the existing fireplace or not, but you may want to lift the insert up ... may be 6 inches if your hearth floor is low on the floor. That will make it easier for you to feed the wood or even look at the fire. I didn't do mine so I need to bend down to see the secondary burn sometime.

    Welcome to the forum........Som
  8. WIT Performance

    WIT Performance New Member

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    Thanks for the tips want to make sure it gets installed right!
  9. WIT Performance

    WIT Performance New Member

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    The manual states this ...."3. In all cases, a sealed block off plate, or a plug of
    other noncombustible material such as unfaced
    fiberglass insulation, must be installed at the
    damper area of the existing fireplace to seal the
    chimney from the room air."


    Says you can use unfaced fiberglass insulation as a block off ?? I know everyone says a metal plate is better just want to make sure installer doesn't give me a hard time about it,what do you guys do metal block off?
  10. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    The metal is meant to block heat transfer as well as hold up the insulation. If the damper area is tight, there's no real reason that a doubled over bat of insulation wouldn't stay just fine. I find it hard to believe they would allow fiberglass though.
  11. Eaglecraft

    Eaglecraft Member

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  12. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Well said, but I'm not sure what the sheet metal shop could do to make a cast Iron surround fit up to rough stone any better. I think a combination of notching stone and a little mortar in the big voids would be the thing to do.
  13. HomeBruin

    HomeBruin New Member

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    I'm about to get my insert installed, replacing a Vermont Castings Aspen that is connected to a 6" steel single wall non-insulated stove pipe running the length of a 2 story masonry chimney in decent shape. There has been no block off plate or insulation in the lower end of the chimney. Never had draft or creosote problems. I do not intend to insulate the chimneypipe or install a block off plate. I DO intend to insulate the bottom end of the chimney above the insert. I brought up the Roxul insulation to my installer, he told me regular insulation is just fine. He said the rockwool is much more expensive, and does not stay up in the chimney cavity as well. He said that in the past 25 years he has been doing installs, he had never seen problems with regular fiberglass insulation such as melting or burning, even when pulling old insulation out during repairs, etc. I said, "can't the fiberglass melt though?" Then he reminded me what the braided gaskets the stoves themselves use around the doors, flue collars, etc. Fiberglass. I figure if insulating the chimney is so important, plugging the top and bottom of the masonry chimney with insulation creates a great dead air space insulation.
  14. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Unless it's an exterior chimney, then it could act as a massive heat sink. You said that you have a single wall stove pipe lining the flue, is this pipe Stainless Steel?
    As for the Fiberglass, If it's so good, why do they make ceramic wool? Fiberglass isn't tested or approved to be in contact with this kinda heat. I wouldn't put myself in the position to say it's OK in my house or anyone elses house. This is what ceramic wool is for and the installer should have it readily available. Sure it might be OK either way, but wouldn't it be better to know it's right?
  15. Haven

    Haven New Member

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    If you didn't mind altering the actual stone facade. You could cut/grind into the stone to make it flush with your surround when you slip it in. For our install, we had to grind some bricks away so we could recess it into the fireplace opening instead of having it flush with the outside of the opening.
  16. Eaglecraft

    Eaglecraft Member

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    Home Bruin:

    Being a fan of Humphrey Bogart, your comments reminded me of the quote taken from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre , We don't need no stinking badges." ""

    No offense intended.

    Good luck with your install.
  17. HomeBruin

    HomeBruin New Member

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    It is an exterior chimney, 3 sides are exposed to exterior. Although it may act as a heat sink if a lot of pipe surface area is actually touching the interior surfaces of the chimney via conduction, I would tend to think the heat radiating from the pipe in the enclosed space would overcome the intrusion of cold air through the mansonry. The pipe is SS flexliner. I know steel is a relatively poor heat conductor, being many times less conductive than other metals, but the relatively small air space in the chimney (I do not have a huge flue) SHOULD act as an insulating boundary layer, if my memory of thermodynamics is correct. Of course this is assuming the air preventing conductive heat loss is not offset by loss due to radiation from the pipe to the masonry. At least this was the case without any BOP/insulation down at the bottom. I would think plugging the bottom with the insulation/insert itself would only improve the situation. As far as the insulation itself, theoretically rock wool would be the better choice, but in practice, if the installer has not had a problem with fiberglass insulation in 25 years, why should there be a problem with it now.
  18. HomeBruin

    HomeBruin New Member

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    I always thought that stinkin' badges line was from Blazing Saddles, lol. They recycled it in that movie!

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