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Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid Stove

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Kruegerw, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    I've concluded that having the secondaries fire off doesn't really hurt burn times very much compared to keeping them snuffed out. It seems odd, but that's what I experienced.

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  2. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    That experience would argue for letting more air into the firebox in warmer weather. Seems you are getting better results with more oxygen.

    I loaded 4 large splits 2 1/2 hours ago. Still have slow cat flames and secondaries, very slow. Stove top temp has remained steady at420, house is very comfortable at 70 degrees. It is sunny, and I don't want it hotter today. We'll be out a lot, and in and out we'll be too warm inside if I get it warmer. Will step up the burn a bit this evening. I fully expect this load to last until my nighttime reload. Hardly a dent in the load yet.
  3. greenbrierwv

    greenbrierwv Member

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    ive noticed that as well. i tend to not shut it down nearly as fast anymore. i let those secondaries take off for a little bit and than shut it down. makes for a cleaner burn imo. and once you get everything burning hot and shut it down, the cat secondaries are amazing. a buddy and i experienced what i called "the perfect burn" last night. beautiful dancing blue flames coming from all around the fire box. btw, i just cleaned my cat for the first time this season (burning 24/7 since october) and the cat wasnt even dirty at all. i could have waited another month easy. cleaned the glass really well while i was at it, which made the fire show that much better. this stove is top notch.
  4. chipsoflyin

    chipsoflyin Member

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    I've noticed that with secondaries going, the flue temps are 100-150 degrees cooler than when the stove is in 100% cat burn. Lower flu temps, less heat going out the pipe, more heat in building, more efficient.
  5. Dairyman

    Dairyman Feeling the Heat

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    That's interesting I would have thought it opposite. What are the flue temps? High flue temps are the biggest complaint I have with the Mansfield.
  6. chipsoflyin

    chipsoflyin Member

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    I'm guessing that the cat sits high in the smoke path so when all the action is up high more heat escapes up the flue.The flue temps are 350-400 when 100% on the cat. When the secondaries fire off the flue temps drop to 200-250. These temps are measured 18" above the collar
  7. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Where/how do you measure 400+ on stovetop? On soapstone, on the collar....? I've never seen my top soapstone get above 350, normally it is around 300-325 went hot.

    I see the pipe temp (about 14" above stove) go from 300 down to between 225 - 250 and stay there when I close the bypass. The only time it will raise above that is if I turn the air up beyond about 1/2 way, which is asking for a blast furnace basically.

    I would not think the secondaries burning, unless they are blasting, would lower the burn times. The secondaries are burning gas that would normally go up the flue and new freshly introduce oxygen (added fuel!), so in a way it would make sense it would extend the burn time since you could burn less wood, and more "other" fuel.

    I should add, I'm still not loading this thing up very full, it has yet to get below 28 degrees at night, it's been very warm out so far this year for me which is par for the course. If I buy an umbrella, we will have a 10 year drought!

    All that said, last night I loaded some better wood than I've been burning, been burning 10 year old cedar and pine. Tried a small load, 4 medium size 12" short splits of 2 year old perfect maple. I loaded them into a hot stove at 10pm last night, and shut the air almost all the way off, just a pinch open. At 12noon today, I went to empty the ashcan, assuming the stove was cold. Wrong, the stove top was at 190, and there was enough red coals to reload and it take off... So that was a 14 hour burn, with about a 1/4 full load of nice seasoned chunks of maple. I can't even imagine what a full load of oak or locust is going to do?
    Rich L likes this.
  8. Rich L

    Rich L Minister of Fire

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    My Mansfield worked much better after I put in a pipe damper.It sent more heat into the cellar from the stove and the flue.
  9. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Normal outside temps, I usually burn my stove so the temp on the soapstone (old cooktop) is 325-350. Cooler weather here now (not today), and I am burning with the air open up to 1/4. Have the new shielded cooktop now, so have moved the thermometer to the cast, to the left of the (top exiting) flue. So, that's where I was reading the temp. Moved it to the soapstone last night to check the difference for you, but forgot to check. So, this morning, the thermometer was on the soapstone. Got a good fire going, air mostly closed, temp read 320. Moved it to the cast, and the temp read 380. So, maybe 60 degrees or so hotter there.
  10. Dairyman

    Dairyman Feeling the Heat

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    That would be true if you didn't have a cat.



    I remember seeing a diagram of the progress but can't find it. I'm guessing that the cat is after the heat exchanger?
  11. Dairyman

    Dairyman Feeling the Heat

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    I have one, it doesn't help to hold flue temps down until they go above 850-900.
  12. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Thanks..... I usually measure close to a 100* difference between soap top and top collar/cast.
  13. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

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    Maybe its that with the secondaries firing, your burning up so much of the smoke there is very little left to burn thru the Cat which is up closer to the flue. With out secondaries firing, your feeding the Cat more smoke it will burn much hotter and heat your flue more. The secondary burn is more down in the fire box and maybe your keeping more heat in the box to radiate out the stove.
  14. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Anyone ever try loading this stove instead of Norht-South or East-West, but UP-DOWN? Or any other stove for that matter?

    I have a bunch of very short (12") but chunky (good size) maple splits, and after loading the other night, I placed one standing up right inside the door since that side of the stove was empty basically. Next morning, all the wood was burned down to a coal bed, except that one piece standing up, was only about 1/4 burned, and still burning nicely. Got me thinking, what if you load the entire stove with short splits standing up? You sure could get alot of wood in there, and I would think it would burn very slowly.... ?
  15. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Don't know. Maybe if you started from a cool stove, and could safely work closely in the stove, you could tightly pack short (say 8 inch) large diameter pieces (ie: cut 16-18 inch relatively square splits in half), light it up and see what happens. I'd personally try this during a cold spell with a good draft. You might get a slow long fire at low air, or you might get an amazing burn.
    By chance, for the first time ever in a Woodstock stove (Fireview or PH), I loaded a large split teepee fashion against a large split lying on the bottom of the stove only this morning. It took a surprising time to really ignite (piece it was against had been loaded alone, was burning well; had bypass open and air 1/2 open for new piece while waiting for new piece to be charred.). While watching it, I though about the caution, even stamped into the door, to not elevate the wood off the floor of the stove by any method, so opened the door and used the poker to edge the split flat. Then added another split (now room for a third) and have been off to the races for several hours now.

    I have often put an 8-12 inch split, or more commonly round, (or more than one) in the space near the door, when it is cold out, to more fully cover the bottom of the stove. Load it up and down or on its side, depending on how it fits in the stove best, and most safely (since I take into consideration that I don't want anything rolling out the door if/when I open it). Often, these pieces near the door are in pretty good shape near the end of the burn, and I will occassioanlly open the door, push the wood near the door to the front of the stove, mess up the coals a bit, close the door and open the air a bit, for a few more hours of good burn. Did this with the Fireview too. So, although aware that the wood loaded N/S near the door, or on end near the door, burned more slowly, always attributed it to the wood being a bit further away from the main oxygen path, never to it being loaded on end. Sort of still think that is the reason, since it doesn't seem to make a difference whether I load the wood on side or end.

    However, have never tried loading the entire stove on end. You could probably get a lot more wood in, if you cut it to ideal dimensions, because of the small door. I'd aim to get the wood in as tightly as possible. I think you might get a humongous fire and a huge amount of heat....but wouldn't be surprised if it was easily controllable for a long low burn. I'd just be prepared for whatever eventuality.
    And, to be safe, I might run the idea by Woodstock first. They likely have input. They would likely run the experiment for you in a safe controlled setting, as they have published on their website that they will try things we ask them to try....Maybe better safe than sorry.

    Will be interesting to see if you have come up with a new idea and an interesting and viable different way to burn....
  16. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    I'm full of good idea! ;)

    Ok, I'll wait for you to try it first! :)
  17. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Never one to let the dust settle under my heels, I just called Woodstock and got Mike. Posed the question.

    He's never heard of anyone trying that, in any situation. He'll mention it to the guys in back, but they are pretty busy now testing the other stoves (? new stove and redesigned Fireview, I'm guessing?) and don't have a PH rigged for testing at the moment, so it'll take a while to get to it, but they'll let me know the results.
    '
    At the moment I'm not feeling really adventurous (read: too close to cooktop cracking/cat warping during non-adventurous burning), so feel inclined to await Woodstock's results.

    However, if things change, and if I actually cut some wood to the appropriate lengths, and if I decide to go ahead with such a burn (maybe I'll get impatient), and I'm if here:rolleyes: to talk about the result (note all the IFs), then I'll post the results.:)
  18. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Ok, thanks. I look forward to your posted results tomorrow morning! :cool:
  19. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Not a Woodstock, but I've run vertical in my stove. Right now, I'm working thru a bunch of wood bucked by the previous owner of my house, and he cut way too short, like 16" short. My stove holds 22" splits. My firebox is also probably 20" tall, so I've often jammed three or four vertical splits in on either side of the main E/W load. However, it seems those are the occasions where I have the most trouble with stuff off-gassing way to quick, and running into situations where I'm either backpuffing or running hotter than I like, so I've stopped doing it recently.
  20. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    That is really interesting. Will have to think through the implications. Makes me a bit more inclined to heed my instinct and let Woodstock run the experiment...

    If you had that problem with a few splits, what happens with a lot that might produce a lot of smoke all at once? Maybe need more air to prevent back puffing, which might result in a scary hot fire...as in, read inferno....
  21. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    As with all things woodstove related, experiment small loads first. I can't imagine any advantage in burning an entire load vertical, though.
  22. Slow1

    Slow1 Minister of Fire

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    One concern I would have going vertical is that a piece would more easily fall against the window. At least with horizontal a rolling log will either hit a wall or the andirons.
  23. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

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    Given that (a) most of us are burning about 16 inch splits and (b) the stove door is relatively small and makes loading a really full load pretty darn challenging, I suspect one coule get a great deal more wood in the stove if one stood it up and packed it tightly.

    Would be interesting to see heat generated and burn time in such a scenario. Also, interesting to see if the wood burned differently when set that way. more surface area on each piece would seemingly be exposed to air....air flow would certainly be different.

    Just interesting. It would be too much of a pain loading that way to do it on any regular basis. But, if it had remarkable results, might be soemthing worth doing from a cold or cool start in cold weather. Just be interesng to find out.

    Guess I never got rid of the curiosity bug I and my 12 siblings had that made for some interesting times for my parents.
  24. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    I have a feeling it will give a really long burn. The surface of the wood will only have flames/heat going up along it, instead of hitting it directly as when loaded e-w. You could get alot of wood in there, and allow very little air space in the box. I have the perfect wood to try it with right now... I just might try a few splits (2 or 3), loaded standing up in the middle together (tightly) and just see how they burn. If there is not much burn activity between them (as opposed aroudn the outside of them which will open air), it may tell me I'm on to something!
  25. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Anyone ever seen this?

    Last night, I loaded up 4 med. size splits onto a large hot coal bed. 2 splits were 10 year old cedar dryer than cotton. The other two splits were perfect 2 year old Maple. So I had about a 1/2 load maybe. 5 minutes, closed the air down and closed bypass. About 1/2 to 1` hour later, the stove was dark (no flames), but about every 20 seconds it would explode with a huge blast of flames swirling all around the enitre box, that would alst about 5 seconds. Then it would go to black and about 20 seconds later (almost like it was timed exactly) it would blast again. This went on like clock work for a full hour before I gave up watching and went to bed, so I don't know how long this went on for.

    I've seen the 2ndaries come and go before, but not perfectly timed like this for so long....

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