1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid Stove

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Kruegerw, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    Even before I got the new shielded cooktop, I frequently ran a soapstone top read temp of under 350, with a clean cat burn. No smoke from the stack. Flue temp likely around 420.

    I suspect the shielded cooktop has a lower temp for cooking than the older cooktop. Have only used it a bit, but it seems to take longer to boil, for instance,. Still quick, but doesn't strike me as being as quick as the old top. Just an impression. Never timed.

    I have ICC Excel double wall stovepipe and ultrablack chimney. Just installed a probe thermometer in the flue. Seems to consistently run 3x the magnetic temp reading. I'm planning to use this to gauge when to engage my cat. The stove top mag therm is a pain when the soapstone is up for cooktop use.

    I ran a hot fire the other day, at least it looked hot and put out nice heat. But the stovetop only got to 450, while the flue probe read 700 for 4 1/2 hours, then dropped to 600???Strange, the flue was much hotter than it usually is, so I guess I was letting heat go up the chimney. Usually my flue temp goes down immediataely the cat engages. Didn't. Didn't rise, but didn't fall. Read the ICC site and it says (Seemingly contradictorily) that the pipe is fine for continuous operation to 1200, but elsewhere states that normai operating temperaure should be kept between 400 and 550
    degrees (if I remember properly...may be 50 degrees higher)

    EDIT: checked and the manual recommends 300 to 500 degree F flue temp for best operation, least condensation and least creosote formation, so I was way over that).

    Mine definitely was hotter than the latter for a long time. The latter temps may refer to the temps that give the cleanest burn while still getting the most heat into the home with the least going up the flue??

    Another point in the manual (WHICH I WISH THE INSTALLER HAD GIVEN ME) is that ICC states that the fLue should be thoroughly swept each season WITHIN 48 HOURS OF SHUTTING THE STOVE DOWN FOR THE SEASON. . Wish I had seen this info a few years ago. Don't know what it implies for someone who burns like I do: I am away from my home for a week to 10 days at a time during the heating season on occasion, and , if the home is vacant, obviously shut the stove down for that time. It is too hot to sweep when leave, and when I get back it is (a) way more than 24 hours after shutting down the stove and (b) chilly, and not a time I fell like, on top of everything else upon a return, sweeping the chimney. I always check the screen, the cat, and clean out ash before relighting the stove, but don't really want to add sweeping the chimney....and it probably would not be helpful this long after shutdown...probably just as good to get it hot again, at this point.

    I've never had much in the chimney when it has been swept, but I have gone 2 years, and have not had a creosote problem. So, maybe if you know your stove burns cleanly and you have only light colored soot, then you don't need to worry about the sweeping within 48 hours of shutting down the stove ?

    May post a thread on this, because I think it is probably important for people who have issues with creosote build up to sweep right away when shutting down for the season. +

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    I've been using exterior single wall pipe temps to engage the cat. I usually run it up to about 300 degrees at 10" above the stove (top vent) before I engage. I figure the cat absolutely has to be seeing 500+ in that case regardless or cold start or warm start. It really doesn't make much sense to go by the soapstone temp since it's going to be way different if you're cold starting or warm starting, etc. My cat lights off every time now now.

    My normal top temp highs are in the 400's to 500. Max with a big load on a cold night is around 550. But, if I do an all cat smallish load I can cruise at 350 with no flame and no smoke out the chimney. This is normal shoulder season operation for me.

    My exterior pipe temps at 10" above the stove almost always sits right at 320 degrees if the stove is hot. It rarely changes. I'm guessing that puts my flue temp somewhere around 500 degrees. I know they say flue temps are twice the exterior temp on a single wall pipe but I'm sure my measure temps are affected a lot by sitting so close to the hot stove top. I might try moving the thermo up and to the side of the pipe to what how that changes my readings.

    I know HH reported lower top temps with the shielded cooktop (she started that thread on it which still pops up from time to time) and I thought there were others.
  3. Buck1200

    Buck1200 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Messages:
    78
    Loc:
    No. VT
    Glad you got the flue probe in R. 400F is the magic number for this stove: close the bypass and air control and the cat always engages. It also likes to sit at 400F flue for most of the burn, as long as you have more than a half load of wood. It's weirdly self regulating in that way.

    Caveats: I have a lot of draft, and a thermocouple on the cat.

    A note: last year's PH had a smaller bypass opening. From what I understand, those who have split their cooktops (me included) have this smaller opening. It creates a more concentrated hot spot when starting a fire in bypass mode. A friend has a new PH with no heat shield, but the wider opening, and has run just fine. I have a heat shield since replacement, and the response change of the top stone temperature is pretty noticeable. Stove still heats the same though, and runs the same flue temps.
  4. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    Wow, great info Buck. I'm still running the original cooktop and I must have the smaller bypass since I got a very early stove. I've been running it all this winter. I wonder if a crack is inevitable or if I'm going to be all right since I've made it this far.
  5. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    I'm running the same stovetop temps in same situation. Maybe your 320 does convert to 640 or so...in keeping with what I saw with that internal probe thermometer temp. That internal probe thermometer is really easy to install, and I feel silly I had it sitting on the sofa table for months because I didn't want to put a hole in my pipe....Both ICC and Woodstock told me to install the probe, and I figure they know. So I knew I should, but...it took a exterior flue temp of 350 degrees to get me to install the probe. I now know that was about 1050, and perfectly safe for my pipe.

    It is nice to actually know the flue temp. But I do feel confident that the magnetic therm temp is just about 1/3 the probe.
    Suspect the single wall truely is 1/2 what a probe would be. The people who are giving the advice seem pretty reliable.
  6. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    IDK Rideau. Flue temps at 600 or 700 are pretty darn high! I tend to believe Buck's 400 way more. If the PH is really running flue temps near 700 throughout the burn, it is not a particularly efficient stove. We know this isn't the case.

    Are you sure your flue probe is installed properly and not being affected by the radiant heat of the stove?
  7. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,114
    Loc:
    Brookhaven, Long Island
    Amazingly, I have never seen any smoke of any kind come out of my chimney since installing the stove. I've checked at the first blast of a cold start, just before engaging the cat, midway thru a cat burn, and at the end of a cat burn when the stove and cat is prolly not hot enough for the cat to be working (even though the bypass is still closed), and in all cases you would not know I was burning anything. Keep in mind, my house is on stilts, and the top of chimney is basically 3 stories up from the ground when I'm looking at it. So maybe I just can't see it close enough cause I'm so far away? I did look at it with binoculars one of those times, in the middle of a burn, and saw nothing. One thing that has struck me with this stove is, I do not smell wood burning outside either. My next door neighbor was very suprised when I told him I've been burning since installing it. He said he always knew when my fireplace was going (he could smell it and see the smoke), but has never smelt the stove burning. He assumed I was not using it yet. I actually expected a strong wood burning smell outside.

    My draft setting is ussually open about 1/8 the way (about 1/4" movment of the handle), just open pinch while we are in the room which lets me see a little fire/flame/secondary action. When we go to bed, I close it completelty down.

    I have the new heat-shielded cooktop obviously, the stove is only a few weeks old. There is a thin stainless shiled bolted to bottom of it, covering about 60 or 70% of it, mainly direcly over where the cat is. One thing I've been disapointed with in the stove is the temp of the cooktop. I have not tried it yet with a very hot fire going, but with a small to normal/avg size fire, it does not get hot enough.

    I wonder if the heat shield keeping the heat on the top down low, is throwing added heat off the sides of the stove, which is contributing to my walls directly off the back corners getting very hot? I should ask Woodstock about that....
  8. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    Very interesting. I was not aware of this. That's a change that can't be retrofitted! Wonder if they will keep both stovetops, or if all will be the new shielded.
  9. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,114
    Loc:
    Brookhaven, Long Island
    Yep, my mag temp on the pipe stays between 200 and 250* almost always thoughout the burn with the cat engaged. Once in a while when the stove gets real hot toward the end of a load (alot of red hot coals in a very deep pile), it will raise up to 300 or 325, but not very often.

    It also can be affected by the radiant heat of the PIPE! So it can measure the actual flue gas temp, PLUS some added heat from the radiant heat bouncing around inside the pipe from the pipe walls themselves, especally in double wall pipe because it has nowhere else to go.

    I strictly use the woodstock mag temp gage, about 12" above the stove on my heavy steel stove pipe. When it hits 250, I close the bypass. My stove top (soap) is ussually still 80 or 100* still. But the flue collar area is about 200* at that point. This is with a cold start of course. This takes 10 or 15 min's max. If I waited for the stove top to reach 250 or 300, that could be 2 hours.
  10. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    You need some cold weather so you can get that stove cranking Machria!
    Cross Cut Saw likes this.
  11. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    It is installed properly.
    Never sure of anything. But, on this particular burn, when I had more wood in the stove than usual, and some very dry wood, the magnetic thermometer was in keeping with the probe reading.

    For my normal two or three large split load (I had 4 on the burn referenced), I had been using the magnetic thermometer to engage the cat, and engaged the cat when the thermometer got to 150, with success. That would indicate 450 interior flue, I'm believing. The thermometer would sometimes stop rising, sometimes get up to as much as 200, but then drop and sit right arounf 140 to 150.

    This last burn mentioned, I was surprised the flue temp stayed so high so long, but the stove put out a lot of heat and had a bright active fire going on for a good five hours, absolutely clear gases out the stack the entire time, relatively low stovetop temps..a really nice fire, but.just sort of wierd and different than anything I had seen before. I do, though, not infrequently see a magnetic thermometr temp right near or sligtly over 200 the few times I try to burn the stove hot and get stovetop temps of over 500. I know the ICC pipe is insulated and designed to keep the temp high in the pipe.

    I have my probe installed just below the sliding joint in my adjustable double wall, per Woodstock's recommendation, which puts it just above where the brass piece on the soapstone hits the pipe when the soapstone is up for cooking. I doubt the probe is going to read any exterior temps, so I doubt radiant heat is a factor in the probe temp. Don't know about the magnetic thermometer, but I can't believe the air there is as hot as the pipe. It surely doesn't seem to be.
  12. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    The original cooktop got hot at the 325-350 temps. Guess Woodstock isn't still making the original cooktop.
  13. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    I'm assuming you have heavy single wall pipe? So, presumably 250 =500, which is the temp the cat should engage at.
  14. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,114
    Loc:
    Brookhaven, Long Island
    Yep.
  15. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,114
    Loc:
    Brookhaven, Long Island
    Question, I took out my cat for the 1st time yesterday to check/clean since I had a cold stove (what hte heck, took 10 seconds to pull out). It was clean as a whistle, looked like the day I got it, just a brownish color what looks like a square rubber thing, with a brown metal honey comb center. anyway, I was taking of a few pics of he interior of the stove and the bottom of the cooktop... while I had it out, and when I went to stick the cat back in, realized I forgot which direction I pulled it out and placed it down. After inspecing it, it looks like it doesn't matter, seemed to be no difference in the two sides of the cat so it can go in either way, is that correct?
  16. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    Yeah, it doesn't matter. I think WS actually says to switch it every so often so it wears evenly.

    Rubber? What rubber?
  17. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,114
    Loc:
    Brookhaven, Long Island
    Thanks. Isn't the outside rim of it rubber of some sort? I thought it felt like rubber... I should say silicone, not rubber. ;)
  18. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    Huh. Mines not. It is all metal.
  19. Huntindog1

    Huntindog1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,471
    Loc:
    South Central Indiana
    Not to change the subject for all of you Woodstock Progress Hybrid owners but......

    I am not sure most people understand when Woodstock says this stove has the highest BTU rating EPA tested output of any stove ever tested.

    The number is 73,171 btu per hour.

    Why is this number special?

    Its because the EPA tests use a lower quality wood and to get that number out of that kind of wood is an accomplishment.

    When you see high numbers like that on other stoves those are numbers obtained loading the best quality high BTU wood not the kind of wood used for EPA testing.

    The EPA tests are standardized government test designed to see how good emissions a stove has with poorer quality wood.
    rideau likes this.
  20. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    Mines all metal too. Is that some kind of caulking that came out with the cat?
  21. ciccio

    ciccio Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Loc:
    new jersey
    I installed the new cook top with the shield and have found that the stove top temps are about 150 degrees less with the shield on...
  22. siddfynch

    siddfynch New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    Loc:
    Southcentral AK
    My PH should arrive in a few days. I got the cooktop, but don't know what it looks like.

    The shield you refer to is different from the rear heat shield, right?
    And if it's a cooktop shield, do I have a choice of removing it before running the stove?
  23. rideau

    rideau Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,920
    Loc:
    southern ontario
    The shield is an integral part of the cooktop, is attached under it, cannot be removed. It keeps the cast iron from getting hot too quickly. Don't know if it has an effect on the ultimate temperature of the cooktop. You could always remove the cooktop, if you don't want to use it and also bought the other soapstone top, which is designed for use without a cooktop. It's thicker than the stone that comes with the cooktop, for obvious reasons.
  24. Slow1

    Slow1 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,663
    Loc:
    Eastern MA
    I believe the cooktop shield is inside the stove - i.e attached to the bottom of the cooktop so it is a bit different from the rear shield.

    I would advise strongly against removing it as it appears to be a necessary design modification to the stove. Keep in mind that as WS gets feedback and experience with the PH they will continue to improve it in order to maximize the value of the stove - both heating ability and reliability.
  25. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,114
    Loc:
    Brookhaven, Long Island
    Here is two pictures that will help you. The first shows the cooktop installed, with only the center stone lifted to reveal the center cooktop burner (high heat). You can also lift the right and left side stones, and reveal the Med and Low heat burners if you like. The second photo shows the underside of the cooktop with it removed from the stove to reveal the "cooktop heatshield". The heat shield is the thin stainless peice of metal with 4 bolts fastening it to the underside of the cooktop.

    If you don't use the cooktop, that's no problem just leave the top stones down and nobody will ever know it even exists. BUT, if you want to cook some chili on it, just lift up the stone, and head on over to the Progress Hybrid recipe thread:
    http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/recipes-for-the-progress-hybrid.94828/


    Cooktop_resize.JPG



    Heat Shield_resize.JPG

Share This Page