1st year wood burner?

[Dale.Z]

1st year wood burner with my P.E. Summit insert and could use a bit of experience / knowledge about the finer points of heating with wood.
Sorry if some of my questions are redundant but searching past posts proves difficult sometimes when questions are kind of general.

1. I have heard it said that with the air control left wide open that all of your heating capacity is going strait up the chimney. Is this when an over fire condition could occur?
I understand that when the air is restricted the efficiency is increased with the EBT but how does that increase heat output?

2. When is a cycle completed? When the flames are gone or when coals are the only thing left? And when can I or should I reload?

3. One more for now. Does running the fan on high cool the firebox hence reducing my heat output?

Thanks for your help. Sorry if these seem like dumb questions still in the learning stage.

Dale

 

[Fsappo]

All good questions. Unlike the old stoves where the combustion was controlled by limiting the air going out of the chimney, this stove is controlled by air going into the firebox. You should be able to have a full charge of wood with the air control full open without having an overfire condition, with a decent stove, which you have. You're not "sending heat up the chimney". Your just creating more heat into the room and burning your wood faster. Your efficiency will change based on hat settings, but not to the point where you're sending all the heat up the stack. I would reload when your down to a bed of coals hot enough to quickly ignite full sized splits when they are placed in the firebox. Adding wood prior to that isn't a huge deal, its just a few extra seconds the door is open when it doesnt need to be. You want to run the fan lower when your running a smaller fire and higher when it's really cooking.

After saying all that, you have a nice product. Don't get caught up micromanaging the stove. If you use it it a normal fashion, you'll get nice heat and a good efficiency.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

With all due respect Franks, I do hate to disagree with folks but there is a point where I do not agree and that is with leaving the draft full open and it could be a dangerous situation. If I am wrong about this particular stove, then please forgive me.

If you are leaving the draft open full then you are heating the chimney instead of the room. It does need to be done when starting the fire or when reloading the stove but after the wood gets started good then is the time to dial that draft down, which will keep the heat inside rather than up the chimney.

Limiting the air going into the stove also limits the air going up the stack. I would fear for anyone to leave the draft open full during the entire burn. That could get really nasty quick.

To the OP, if you add wood before the end of the cycle, sooner or later you will end up with so many coals in the stove that you don't have much space left to put the wood. You probably won't notice this until cold weather hits and you are needing lots of heat. Then most folks get antsy and put wood in before any coals get a chance to burn down.

What we've found best is when the wood gets pretty well burned and the stove top temperature starts coming down, we open the draft to about half way. When it is down to almost all coals we will then open the draft full to burn down some of those coals. Then when you are ready to add wood, the draft is already set. Open the door, add wood, wait 10-20 minutes (varies a lot; could even be longer) then turn that draft down. How far down depends upon the stove.


EDIT: To add, the older stoves were also controlled by limiting the air that goes into the stoves. Yes, most had pipe dampers but the air going into the stove still had to be controlled.

 

[Fsappo]

Dennis, If folks cant disagree in our great country, I'd be dissapointed. I like to hear opinions from other wood burners, even more so from a 50 year veteran (twice as long as me) I feel though, that any epa certified non cat stove that is not poorly designed should be able to run with the damper open without overheating. I still also feel that even though your losing some efficiency with running your draft open on a non cat epa stove, it is countered by the fact that your creating much more heat in the room.

But this is a lively message board, and I may be proven a witch and burned at the stake by other members. We'll see

 

[fredarm]

I have the Summit's little brother, the Vista insert and I find that the only time I run it with the draft open wide is when lighting or reloading it. Other than that, the most I'll leave it open is about half, and that's only if it's really cold out. A far as the blower goes, as I recall the Vista manual says to use the lowest setting on the blower at the the lowest draft setting and match the fan setting to the draft setting as it goes higher--medium draft, medium fan, etc. I never use the fan on high, it's too noisy.

 

[Jags]

I feel though, that any epa certified non cat stove that is not poorly designed should be able to run with the damper open without overheating.
and I may be proven a witch and burned at the stake by other members.

Got your flame retardant undies on?? :lol:

I understand your logic, but it just doesn't hold true. There are waaay too many variables to claim this as a cookie cutter answer. 35ft stack anyone?? Not mine, but they do exist.

If I left my quad IR at wide open throttle (which I consider a VERY well designed stove), I would get a stove top exceeding 900F easily. And this IS considered an overfire.

Denis covered the other points well, but for #3 I'll give it a shot:

3. One more for now. Does running the fan on high cool the firebox hence reducing my heat output?

Running the fan WILL cool the firebox, but doesn't reduce the heat output unless you were to bring the stove (surface) temp down to a point where you are affecting the burn rate INSIDE of the box. You are essentially just moving the heat away from the stove surface.

 

[firefighterjake]

1st year wood burner with my P.E. Summit insert and could use a bit of experience / knowledge about the finer points of heating with wood.
Sorry if some of my questions are redundant but searching past posts proves difficult sometimes when questions are kind of general.

1. I have heard it said that with the air control left wide open that all of your heating capacity is going strait up the chimney. Is this when an over fire condition could occur?
I understand that when the air is restricted the efficiency is increased with the EBT but how does that increase heat output?

2. When is a cycle completed? When the flames are gone or when coals are the only thing left? And when can I or should I reload?

3. One more for now. Does running the fan on high cool the firebox hence reducing my heat output?

Thanks for your help. Sorry if these seem like dumb questions still in the learning stage.

Dale

Well I'm only a two-year burner (in regards to the EPA stoves) . . . and I don't own a PE . . . but here's my take on things.

1) Yes . . . running the stove with the air wide open to me is inefficient at best as most of the heat will go up the chimney instead of being used to boost the heat in the stove. And I have personally forgotten to close the air when I was getting a fire started and the result was the stove was at 750 and still climbing . . . not a good place to be since one other member here said the Jotul rep he spoke with said 700 F + is not a good place to be with the stove model we both own and use.

2) I view a cycle as being complete when the fire has gone to the coal stage . . . when I add wood depends on how cold or hot it is in the house and how much heat I am looking to generate. This time of year it's still not frigidly cold, so I'll often let the coals die down more before adding fresh fuel to the coals . . . although in the dead of winter . . . and well . . . heck . . . sometimes even now . . . I'll add wood to the fire when it still has some flames, but it's on the downhill side (i.e. stove top temp and/or flue temp are starting to noticeably decrease) -- what I never do is add fresh fuel when the stove top and flue are in the mid to high heat ranges.

3) Can't tell you anything about a fan . . . I use a regular floor fan pointed at the stove from the doorway of the living room pointed in (25 or so feet away) . . . I don't notice any changes in the fire behavior or burn time . . . I do notice the heat moves around the house better with the fan.

 

[EL DRIFTO]

1st yr noob here too
after experimenting a little, it seems that keeping the flue as closed as possable yeilds the most eff
i've got a full load in, after it gets going, i keep the damper 20% open
it takes quite a fire to keep the draft strong @ only 20% open, or less...

i figure burning more wood @ time, with very little draft
is better than burning the same amount of wood, one log @ a time, requiring more draft % the whole time

the stronger the draft, the greater the heat differential, more heat must be in the box

i dont open the door unless it's to load wood now
just dont open the air up, leaving it closed may make the coals last longer
since i'll wait a little longer now, then load it full again

it's neat hearing the stove expand & heatup, the moment i sinch the door shut, whenever it finally lights

 

[firefighterjake]

1st yr noob here too
after experimenting a little, it seems that keeping the flue as closed as possable yeilds the most eff
i've got a full load in, after it gets going, i keep the damper 20% open
it takes quite a fire to keep the draft strong @ only 20% open, or less...

i figure burning more wood @ time, with very little draft
is better than burning the same amount of wood, one log @ a time, requiring more draft % the whole time

the stronger the draft, the greater the heat differential, more heat must be in the box

i dont open the door unless it's to load wood now
just dont open the air up, leaving it closed may make the coals last longer
since i'll wait a little longer now, then load it full again

it's neat hearing the stove expand & heatup, the moment i sinch the door shut, whenever it finally lights

You may only be a first year noob . . . but I think you've caught on a lot earlier and faster than many first year burners . . . including myself.

 

[BrowningBAR]

1st yr noob here too
after experimenting a little, it seems that keeping the flue as closed as possable yeilds the most eff
i've got a full load in, after it gets going, i keep the damper 20% open
it takes quite a fire to keep the draft strong @ only 20% open, or less...

i figure burning more wood @ time, with very little draft
is better than burning the same amount of wood, one log @ a time, requiring more draft % the whole time

the stronger the draft, the greater the heat differential, more heat must be in the box

i dont open the door unless it's to load wood now
just dont open the air up, leaving it closed may make the coals last longer
since i'll wait a little longer now, then load it full again

it's neat hearing the stove expand & heatup, the moment i sinch the door shut, whenever it finally lights

You may only be a first year noob . . . but I think you've caught on a lot earlier and faster than many first year burners . . . including myself.

It's amazing what a second year of burning will do. Last year I had a ton of smoke coming out of my chimney and I would have a hell of a time keeping the stove at the desired temp. This year I have very little smoke coming out of the chimney and steady temps.

 

[EL DRIFTO]

thanks for the encouragement

after the weekend, i also noticed that in order to keep the "air control" tight,
i have to load split wood with allot of surface area to keep it hot enough

my biggest problem has been starting a draft in a cold stove
i opened every door in the house, put in a huge paper to try to make quick draft - fail

when my 18' stack is cold, it reverse drafts for a minute
smoke shooting out of the cracked open door...

 

[ansehnlich1]

Hey I'm not afraid to speak the truth, I've read others opinions, and now here is mine....

You burn my Oslo with a full load and leave the air control wide open and you've got a serious problem on your hands

I NEVER, NEVER, have done this, nor would I try, it would SURELY put my stove top temperature WAY past that recommended by Jotul. That bad boy would run to 800, 900, 1000, sheesh, I shudder to think where it'd end up.