2022-2023 BK everything thread

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Get out of bed, move the lever from combustor engaged to combustor bypassed. Go pee. Let the cat out. Make coffee. Open the loading door, add fuel, close the loading door. Pour coffee. Check the stove, go take a shower.
Well I'm going to have to change it up a little because I don't have a cat or drink coffee but I think I can find something else to fill the gaps.

I'm a hard wood guy and 3:30 setting for me is a rippin fire, I normally set the t-stat before 3 or so and get small lazy candle like flames,
3:30 with my soft spruce isn't rippin but it's a solid red glow that looks like it would be great for a forge. Just under 3:00 it's all black and puts out steady low heat for 20+ hours. Dropped close to 30°f last night so 20 hour burns are done until next spring.
 
They are North Idaho Energy Logs. Made in Moyie Springs Idaho...not far from Libby!
 
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Oh geese ha ha. I’ve burned a ton of those things. Love them. Man, they burn forever in my princess, will be interesting to see how long they go in the king.
 
Hi folks, first post here. Have a couple BK questions. I live in Northern California close to the Oregon border on the coast. It’s a mild climate but we use wood as our primary heat source. My house is 23 years old 1200 square feet with decent insulation. Current stove is a Quadra-fire 1900 with air tubes. This stove has a small fire box and I have a hard time getting an overnight burn with it. I stoke it before bed and middle of the night it will get too warm then be out in the am. Plus I have to cut the wood small to make it fit. I’ve done a lot of research and decided I want a cat stove for a long low burn. Would be great if we could keep it going all the time and not have to relight every day.
For the Question: would a Princess be too big for this application? Secondly, is there much difference in technology and efficiency between an older early CAT Princess and a newer model princess? If princess is too big what would be a good cat stove for my application? Thanks again
 
Do you have plenty of well seasoned cordwood will be coming at you from all directions!
 
Hi folks, first post here. Have a couple BK questions. I live in Northern California close to the Oregon border on the coast. It’s a mild climate but we use wood as our primary heat source. My house is 23 years old 1200 square feet with decent insulation. Current stove is a Quadra-fire 1900 with air tubes. This stove has a small fire box and I have a hard time getting an overnight burn with it. I stoke it before bed and middle of the night it will get too warm then be out in the am. Plus I have to cut the wood small to make it fit. I’ve done a lot of research and decided I want a cat stove for a long low burn. Would be great if we could keep it going all the time and not have to relight every day.
For the Question: would a Princess be too big for this application? Secondly, is there much difference in technology and efficiency between an older early CAT Princess and a newer model princess? If princess is too big what would be a good cat stove for my application? Thanks again
The princess is not too big. They can be turned down really low so they make as much heat as a very small stove.
 
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Seriously, you should only burn well seasoned wood. The top end and bottom end heat output performance is insignificant from each model. The Princess does have the 6" deep belly to avoid frequent cleaning out of ashes. The Sirocco 30 might look a bit more like your Quad.

In cat models, there is Hearthstone, Kuma, Regency, Vermont Castings and a few others.

You can look them over on their websites. Also look at Woodstock Soapstone.

BKVP
 
Do you have plenty of well seasoned cordwood will be coming at you from all directions!
Yes endless supply of firewood. Usually seasoned a year before it gets to the stove. Lately it’s been Willow, Douglass Fir, Oak and Red Alder. We have forest land and a sawmill which produces a lot of the soft wood for us. I’ve had wood heat as my primary/ only heat always since childhood so I am well seasoned in that department. The Quadra-fire is my first epa stove. Love how it has a clear plume out the chimney but it only will achieve this when it’s hot and not shut down
 
In cat models, there is Hearthstone, Kuma, Regency, Vermont Castings and a few others.

You can look them over on their websites. Also look at Woodstock Soapstone.
Good on you for casting a level playing field. But unless I'm mistaken, the only company on this list having any model even close to a BK would be Woodstock Soapstone, and even then only one or two of their newer models, with regard to the OP's stated need for "low and slow". I think if you're in a contest for the lowest continuous output from a woodstove, a BK going to land the podium, every time.

That said, Woodstock makes great stoves, and is well-known for their excellent and reliable customer service. If you want soapstone, you would do well to consider them. If you want more classic iron or steel, then I'd venture to say BK is the only one I'd consider, for the stated goals.

As to size... I think some go too far in saying it doesn't matter at all. The implication is that, with a cat stove that can burn super low, the size of the stove really represents nothing more than the size of the fuel tank, with no relation to output power. This may be "more true" with a BK than with other stoves, but I still don't believe it's "absolutely true". I have an Ashford 30.1 in a small addition to my house (~1500 sq.ft.) with a lot of solar gain, and it's frankly too much on sunny days. You can try to build a smaller fire in a bigger stove, indeed I do this frequently, but there's a limit to that. You're not going to easily get the cat sufficiently heated to light off in a stove that big, on three small splits.

So, I'll buck the trend and say that, "yes a BK is what you want" for low and slow, but "maybe not the Princess" for a well-insulated 1200 sq,ft, in a mild climate. I'd be looking at the BK20's (Ashford, Chinook, Sirocco), NOT because they have a lower advertised output (they don't), but because I believe they'll be easier to operate with reliable cat light-off on the likely-desirable smaller loads of wood.

In evaluating this, remember that there's a roughly-fixed BTU value to each load of wood of given species and volume, consider it as a rough BTU/lb. constant. Also remember that in your climate, you likely often need some heat from that stove overnight, but do not want it putting out heat during the day. So, a stove that can be loaded with 3 cubic feet of wood, to put out constant heat for 30 hours, is completely useless to you. What you need is a stove that can do similarly low output overnight, but also loaded with a charge small enough to have it go out and cool off in the morning. Hence, the BK20, not 30 or Princess.
 
Good on you for casting a level playing field. But unless I'm mistaken, the only company on this list having any model even close to a BK would be Woodstock Soapstone, and even then only one or two of their newer models, with regard to the OP's stated need for "low and slow". I think if you're in a contest for the lowest continuous output from a woodstove, a BK going to land the podium, every time.

That said, Woodstock makes great stoves, and is well-known for their excellent and reliable customer service. If you want soapstone, you would do well to consider them. If you want more classic iron or steel, then I'd venture to say BK is the only one I'd consider, for the stated goals.

As to size... I think some go too far in saying it doesn't matter at all. The implication is that, with a cat stove that can burn super low, the size of the stove really represents nothing more than the size of the fuel tank, with no relation to output power. This may be "more true" with a BK than with other stoves, but I still don't believe it's "absolutely true". I have an Ashford 30.1 in a small addition to my house (~1500 sq.ft.) with a lot of solar gain, and it's frankly too much on sunny days. You can try to build a smaller fire in a bigger stove, indeed I do this frequently, but there's a limit to that. You're not going to easily get the cat sufficiently heated to light off in a stove that big, on three small splits.

So, I'll buck the trend and say that, "yes a BK is what you want" for low and slow, but "maybe not the Princess" for a well-insulated 1200 sq,ft, in a mild climate. I'd be looking at the BK20's (Ashford, Chinook, Sirocco), NOT because they have a lower advertised output (they don't), but because I believe they'll be easier to operate with reliable cat light-off on the likely-desirable smaller loads of wood.

In evaluating this, remember that there's a roughly-fixed BTU value to each load of wood of given species and volume, consider it as a rough BTU/lb. constant. Also remember that in your climate, you likely often need some heat from that stove overnight, but do not want it putting out heat during the day. So, a stove that can be loaded with 3 cubic feet of wood, to put out constant heat for 30 hours, is completely useless to you. What you need is a stove that can do similarly low output overnight, but also loaded with a charge small enough to have it go out and cool off in the morning. Hence, the BK20, not 30 or Princess.
If the cats are the same (size) in the 20 and 30 fireboxes, then your argument does not hold up: then the cat "light off" will be needing the same amount of gases for the two size fireboxes, and the minimum possible heat output (using the smallest possibe fire) will be the same because the cat needs the same. I.e. the 20 firebox cat can't handle a smaller fire than the smallest fire in a 30 firebox.

Given that the minimum output is advertised to be more or less the same, and given the above argument (hinging on the I think correct assumption that the cats have the same size - @BKVP ?), I think going for the 30 fireboxes is best unless physical space is an issue.
 
If the cats are the same (size) in the 20 and 30 fireboxes, then your argument does not hold up: then the cat "light off" will be needing the same amount of gases for the two size fireboxes
It's not an issue of gasses, it's a issue of proximity of the heat source to the combustor and bypass. A smaller stove which places that heat source (the burning wood) closer to the combustor will do a better job of heating it to the required light-off temperature, required before closing the bypass and achieving light-off.

In the case of the larger stove, a small load of wood (my 3 splits example) results in most of the heat being swept up the bypass into the flue, at a distance to great from the combustor to affect the required pre-heating by radiation or convection. I’m speaking from experience in this, I’ve tried it many times, failing to ever achieve cat light-off in a BK30, or really struggling to get there, on just 3 splits. This is perhaps the only area of performance where my old cat stove was better than my BK 30’s.
 
It's not an issue of gasses, it's a issue of proximity of the heat source to the combustor and bypass. A smaller stove which places that heat source (the burning wood) closer to the combustor will do a better job of heating it to the required light-off temperature, required before closing the bypass and achieving light-off.

In the case of the larger stove, a small load of wood (my 3 splits example) results in most of the heat being swept up the bypass into the flue, at a distance to great from the combustor to affect the required pre-heating by radiation or convection. I’m speaking from experience in this, I’ve tried it many times, failing to ever achieve cat light-off in a BK30, or really struggling to get there, on just 3 splits. This is perhaps the only area of performance where my old cat stove was better than my BK 30’s.
Interesting thought. I'm not convinced the radiative load on the cat that sits behind a metal screen and on a metal bar, beats the convective load of hot gases though.

The experiment would not be a failure to light of a BK30 on three splits but a failure to do so combined with the success in a BK20.
 
Interesting thought. I'm not convinced the radiative load on the cat that sits behind a metal screen and on a metal bar, beats the convective load of hot gases though.

The experiment would not be a failure to light of a BK30 on three splits but a failure to do so combined with the success in a BK20.
True. I only have experience with the BK30, so you could argue with my assumption that the 20 would be better in this regard, I’m only drawing that conclusion from prior use of another brand of a completely different design.

What is 100% certain is that there is a minimum amount of wood required to achieve secondary burn, no matter what stove you use, cat or non-cat. I’m arguing that it only makes sense that minimum load would be less in a 2 cu.ft. stove, than in a 3 cu.ft. stove of the same design. I’m comfortable with that assertion, I’ll be utterly amazed if it’s proven wrong, but will admit I don’t have actual proof of doing this experiments on both stoves on the same chimney with the same wood. I don’t think we ever will, unless BK does it for us.
 
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Ok lots of good points to consider. Is there much difference between a older princess say from the late 80s or 90’s and a newer one. Technology wise and efficiency? I Might consider a second hand one for a test drive. I don’t mind a little restoration project. A lot of houses around here get stoves put in them and never used
 
I'll buck the trend and say that, "yes a BK is what you want" for low and slow, but "maybe not the Princess" for a well-insulated 1200 sq,ft, in a mild climate. I'd be looking at the BK20's (Ashford, Chinook, Sirocco),
Although I have very limited experience with this I would have to agree.

A few years ago my son bought a small 1200 square foot house that has a princess. When it's 30 or 40 below the princess is great but above zero he's not able to use it very much because it is simply too much heat. It will burn low and slow but the main problem is the initial blast of heat getting the cat fired off and the wood chard turns the house into an inferno. I have not personally messed with his stove much but in the beginning I kept telling him it would be possible to turn it down lower but he assures me no matter what he does it is too hot in there in mild weather.

Fast forward to this spring and the wife and I bought a house with a DutchWest wood stove in it. Had a few fires in it last spring and didn't really care for it but it worked. Late summer we had the chimney sweep come out and turns out the chimney was damaged from a fire. The sweep recommended a great chimney installer so we had him come out. When doing a quote on chimney replacement he asked how we like that stove and of course I said I really didn't. Told me he didn't either because he used to install them and had nothing but troubles including the legs falling off. Taking in consideration the space I was heating and the limited space where the stove was installed he recommended the scirocco 20. From my son's experience with a larger stove and the size of the area where we're heating we decided to pull the trigger. We do have 2,000 ft and a garage but we're only heating the upper half with the wood stove so it's a smaller area. Since the install I have had a fire burning 24/7 for the last 21 days and couldn't be happier. Very mild temperatures yet other than on very sunny days with the sun shining in the house isn't too hot. First couple weeks we did have to open windows and doors sometimes but that was mainly operator error with me learning the stove. I can now consistently get 12 hour burns while keeping a constant temperature in the house. In the beginning also got a couple 20 hour burns by turning it down a little more but then the temperature fell a little more so I haven't tried that since. I am guessing once the temperature drops to under -20°f eight hour burns will be in order if we don't want help from the oil boiler but as long as I don't have to stoke the fire in the middle of the night then it's all good.

Like I said I have limited experience but have seen that you can have too much stove in a small well insulated space. On the flip side if I was heating with wood exclusively in this climate I would have got a bigger stove and just dealt with a little too much heat in the fall and spring.
 
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I am probably a couple of weeks from starting my burn year. Last year was my first year burning a BK Ashford. I went from 800gal of propane usage to 140gal a year. I think it was worth it.
 
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Back to @Fisherman-Travis
Can the QuadraFire go low enough to not roast you out of the room (even if it can't run long enough)?

Sizing a stove for optimal heat output is hard if it is not clear what heat output you need. A comparison to how a known previous stove did in your home may help.

Second, regarding wood, it's not about having plenty of supply, it's about having dry wood. Your burning observations with the QuadraFire look good. However, tube stoves are often a bit easier on slightly wet wood than cat stoves. While some wood will be okay for burning in a BK in a year of drying, others will not. And the prime example there is oak. I'm not sure how your CA climate is; humid or dry. North suggests to my uneducated self it's not the San Diego dryness. I would therefore suggest to get a moisture meter (and know how to operate it) to ensure that what you burn is going to be dry enough. You want <20% (though the stove has been tested with wood <25%).
 
Ok lots of good points to consider. Is there much difference between a older princess say from the late 80s or 90’s and a newer one. Technology wise and efficiency? I Might consider a second hand one for a test drive. I don’t mind a little restoration project. A lot of houses around here get stoves put in them and never used
Answering your question directly. There are a few different combustion design changes in the Princess over the years. Earlier version has horizontal placement of the combustor which added to the issues related to flame impingement. Also, the most current, additional engineering to increasing back pressure to create higher PM destruction. Combustor placement and installation designs were improved to make service much easier. The bypass was a sliding bypass years ago. It is now a lever action with a gasketing seal to reduce PM and increase efficiency (loss up the stack). The bypass retainers were upgraded to a single piece for ease of replacement and although failure is rare, there were a couple of cases so that was addressed.

The flame shields were improved to help spread heat load more evenly across the face of the combustor. The door latch adjustment is now designed to allow for micro or incremental adjustment. Lastly, there are 3 designs available; still the classic but also Ultra and Parlor, neither of which were available is older Princess models. (Began with PE1006)

Hope this helps.

BKVP
 
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I did have a question. It is possible that we will be moving and I am see a lot of the houses thst have fireplaces rather than free standing woodstoves. I was thinking if I got a place with a fireplace I would just put in an BK insert. I have a BK Ashford right now and love it. My question is would I get the same heat output with an insert as I would with a free standing stove or would I be better off just finding a place and adding a free standing unit? I will be trying to use wood as my main source of heat.
 
The inserts are smaller than the 30 fireboxes. Their output seems to be between the 20 and 30 fireboxes according to the data on the website, though the low end is lower than the 20 box.

The Ashford 20 stove is 28 000 ish BTUs up to 8 hrs, and 11 000 ish up to 20 hrs.
The Ashford (25) insert is 30 000 BTUs up to 8 hrs, and 9 500 ish up to 25 hrs.
The Ashford 30 stove is 36 000 ish BTUs up to 10 hrs and 12 000 ish up to 30 hrs.

So it would depend on what stove (20 or 30) you have now, whether the insert would do the same.
But in the end a lot depends on what (insulation and layout) home you have as well.
 
Hi folks, first post here. Have a couple BK questions. I live in Northern California close to the Oregon border on the coast. It’s a mild climate but we use wood as our primary heat source. My house is 23 years old 1200 square feet with decent insulation. Current stove is a Quadra-fire 1900 with air tubes. This stove has a small fire box and I have a hard time getting an overnight burn with it. I stoke it before bed and middle of the night it will get too warm then be out in the am. Plus I have to cut the wood small to make it fit. I’ve done a lot of research and decided I want a cat stove for a long low burn. Would be great if we could keep it going all the time and not have to relight every day.
For the Question: would a Princess be too big for this application? Secondly, is there much difference in technology and efficiency between an older early CAT Princess and a newer model princess? If princess is too big what would be a good cat stove for my application? Thanks again
The princess would be a perfect fit, in your milder climate of 40's in the winter you would be getting 28+hr burns per load with the majority of the heat being produced coming off the top plate above the cat.
 
The princess would be a perfect fit, in your milder climate of 40's in the winter you would be getting 28+hr burns per load with the majority of the heat being produced coming off the top plate above the cat.
Is it common you would want 28+ hours of continuous heat output, at > 10,000 BTU, in northern California?

I'm sure there are occasions for it, but I'm guessing the more typical need is 8 hours of overnight heat, with a sincere desire to shut it down if it goes any longer than that.
 
Though coastal climates have more even temperatures, and thus more even BTU needs over a day (in particular of it's cloudy).
 
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Don’t the smaller bk stoves still give a pretty long burn time? I think the princess would work but would take a few seasons and some accurate weather forecasts to get it dialed in and even then I’d guess there’s going to be a few times you’ll be cussing yourself for stuffing it full. Just my 2
 
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28 hours is a long time, and that's a relatively conservative number for a Princess.
 
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