25-PAH issues from factory

[SmokeyTheBear]

Stay with it and for your information Mike made it into work this morning through the 15" of crap they had, his 4 WD wouldn’t lock into 4 WD so he had a bummer of a ride and is short staffed as others haven't made it in yet.

 

[acammer]

At work today so I can sit on my butt and wait through the ESW phone queue but I will be calling shortly and hopefully getting this dealth with for good. Stove ran great for about 5 hours last night, strong yellow flame and no ash build up and then slowly went downhill from there, by this morning it was a low lazy flame with the usual overspilling pot. After a cleaning and restarting it reverted to the typical orange flame that I get at startup. It was great in that 5 hour window, tons of heat coming out.

I think you've got the right idea until you get a solution - be hyper diligent about cleaning, and you'll get ok heat, just in short intervals. One other thing you might try to extend your run times a little bit (at the cost of a little heat output) would be to crank the LBA to 9 (this will ensure you get full speed on the combustion blower no matter what heat level you run) and then back off a heat level or two. Running with the heat level at 7 (and keep that convection blower going full speed at 9) will introduce less fuel for the same amount of combustion air, which might keep the burn clean a little longer. It will put out a little less heat, it's up to you to decide which is more important, a longer interval between cleanups (and the downtime of no heat) or maximum output while it is running.

 

[jjwreil]

Running with the heat level at 7 (and keep that convection blower going full speed at 9)

This is actually how we run it around 90% of the time, sometimes with a heat of 5/6 and occasionally at 8/9 when I want to catch things up after its been down for a while.

 

[acammer]

This is actually how we run it around 90% of the time, sometimes with a heat of 5/6 and occasionally at 8/9 when I want to catch things up after its been down for a while.

With the LBA trimmed up? We know you've got airflow issues galore, so don't be afraid to take that right to a 9, it'll keep that combustion blower singing when you low the heat level, and you need that desperately.

 

[jjwreil]

With the LBA trimmed up? We know you've got airflow issues galore, so don't be afraid to take that right to a 9, it'll keep that combustion blower singing when you low the heat level, and you need that desperately.

Sorry I wasn't clearer, we keep the LBA at 9 (thought he stove says it does it automatically), the heat setting itself is what we adjust up and down.

 

[acammer]

Sorry I wasn't clearer, we keep the LBA at 9 (thought he stove says it does it automatically), the heat setting itself is what we adjust up and down.

Perfect - you're doing all you can then at this point. Let us know what Englander has to say for the warped stove.

 

[jjwreil]

Perfect - you're doing all you can then at this point. Let us know what Englander has to say for the warped stove.

Work kept me away from my desk for a while so I was only recently able to make the call. Finally got through the gentleman on the other end said I need to send in pictures showing everything it is doing and describe. I asked if I could just use this thread but sadly he wouldn't take it! So I'll be emailing pictures tonight from home and hopefully this can be resolved in short order. Would be nice to get one that works right for the rest of the winter, though tonight is going to be a balmy -5 so thats an improvement!

 

[OhioBurner©]

I had to use 7/8" gasket to get my door to seal. On the ash pan I stripped of the standard flat gasket and used a small rope gasket to get it to seal (I forget exactly maybe 1/4") and used a thick layer of silicone carefully applying pressure to squash the sides but allow the center to be a little thicker where the stove surface was bowed. I may have missed it but have you used a brush on your venting or cleaned out the combustion blower? If you ran dirty for months, no matter how often you clean your pot or improve your seals if your venting is still plugged up your burn will degrade rapidly. A leaf blower helped mine a lot, even when the issues remained.

 

[adam6979]

I had to use 7/8" gasket to get my door to seal. On the ash pan I stripped of the standard flat gasket and used a small rope gasket to get it to seal (I forget exactly maybe 1/4") and used a thick layer of silicone carefully applying pressure to squash the sides but allow the center to be a little thicker where the stove surface was bowed. I may have missed it but have you used a brush on your venting or cleaned out the combustion blower? If you ran dirty for months, no matter how often you clean your pot or improve your seals if your venting is still plugged up your burn will degrade rapidly. A leader blower helped mine a lot, even when the issues remained.

Exactly what I was thinking... with the dirty burn and all he needs to open up the combustion chambers (2) (the areas the little plates cover at the bottom behind the ash pan) and go in with a long bottle brush and scrub the passages. I know Mike says rap on it with a mallet but I found a brush was alot less umm... harsh. I then wrap on it with a plastic nut driver handle to shake what the brush may have missed. Mine runs 24/7 and I do then once every month....

However it sounds like the stove needs to go back to Englander all together and get the OP the stove he paid for... Shame you're having this much trouble I like ours better than our Quad.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The late comers should note he was referred to the practice of a good stove cleaning way back in the thread and his stove arrived with a missing gasket and two others that just don't seem to be sealing correctly that makes it zero for three in the gasket area even before the crap burns which didn't help in the least in the stove cleanliness department. If the stove were mine which it isn't, I'd fix it and send a very detailed letter of what it took to ESW indicating the parts I needed to obtain and ask that they replace same or I'd have sent the stove back and gone for another. But I'm like that and have more than just a little patience.

When you buy a stove and go the DIY route you have to wear a lot of hats stove manufacturing isn't one of them however.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

jjwreil that E2 was likely caused by the gasket situation as well as the ignition is apt to be later in the cycle so the stove doesn't attain operating tempature when the time interval expires. Ignition is very sensitive to air flow past the igniter which would not have been proper with all of those gasket situations.

 

[adam6979]

The late comers should note he was referred to the practice of a good stove cleaning way back in the thread and his stove arrived with a missing gasket and two others that just don't seem to be sealing correctly that makes it zero for three in the gasket area even before the crap burns which didn't help in the least in the stove cleanliness department. If the stove were mine which it isn't, I'd fix it and send a very detailed letter of what it took to ESW indicating the parts I needed to obtain and ask that they replace same or I'd have sent the stove back and gone for another. But I'm like that and have more than just a little patience.

When you buy a stove and go the DIY route you have to wear a lot of hats stove manufacturing isn't one of them however.

Agreed. The stove should work out of the box or been returned/exchanged. A lot of people follow that tag that says to call the manufacturer and not return to the store. In this case if the stove was not working properly by day 29 I would have brought it back. The one I got was shipped to me so returning wasn't an option. However I worked with Mike and Andy and got it working properly. Mike cannot fix what he does not know is broken and I am sure if the OP stays with it he will either get it fixed or a replacement. ESW seems to take care of their customers, it just takes time and like you said patience.

 

[jjwreil]

jjwreil that E2 was likely caused by the gasket situation as well as the ignition is apt to be later in the cycle so the stove doesn't attain operating tempature when the time interval expires. Ignition is very sensitive to air flow past the igniter which would not have been proper with all of those gasket situations.

Thanks for the info on this. I do notice the actual ignition takes quite a while before it even gets the pellets lit so I'm assuming the whole process is delayed so it never hits temp in time and triggers E-2. Round 2 always works but at that point the stove is pretty warm and I know to look for it so I wait and turn it back on as soon as it goes E-2.

Thanks for the other comments and suggestions, the information and pictures has been mailed to their support team and just waiting to see what they say. The stove was shipped to me as well and honestly this is my first experience with a pellet stove so I didn't realize how poorly it was running until well into the second month, I thought we just had back luck with some components, did n't realize the entire stove was potentially compromised.

Course after the full clean its running a little better still, not as advertised but its taking it longer before it goes into the overflowing stuffed pot mode. And this morning was a balmy 8 degree's so I'm sure that helps too!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks for the info on this. I do notice the actual ignition takes quite a while before it even gets the pellets lit so I'm assuming the whole process is delayed so it never hits temp in time and triggers E-2. Round 2 always works but at that point the stove is pretty warm and I know to look for it so I wait and turn it back on as soon as it goes E-2.

Thanks for the other comments and suggestions, the information and pictures has been mailed to their support team and just waiting to see what they say. The stove was shipped to me as well and honestly this is my first experience with a pellet stove so I didn't realize how poorly it was running until well into the second month, I thought we just had back luck with some components, did n't realize the entire stove was potentially compromised.

Course after the full clean its running a little better still, not as advertised but its taking it longer before it goes into the overflowing stuffed pot mode. And this morning was a balmy 8 degree's so I'm sure that helps too!

Thanks for that info about the pictures having been being sent.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Sorry I wasn't clearer, we keep the LBA at 9 (thought he stove says it does it automatically), the heat setting itself is what we adjust up and down.

The stove should come set factory with Low Burn Air at 4. It is not automatic at all, make sure you're not confusing this with the Blower Speed which will automatically increase as you increase the Heat Range. However with it running as bad as you say I doubt the LBA setting will have much effect, but could help a little though its more of masking the symptom rather fixing the cause. The LBA might have to be adjusted to get an ideal burn but you need a good running stove first.

 

[jjwreil]

Finally received a reply, in total it said (obviously a very word reply)

>We are sending you a door gasket, ash pan and burnpot.

Not sure how that resolves the front being slightly bowed and not sealing properly? Maybe they are using a different gasket this time?

Woke up to -22 outside and a house around 48, the stove was running but the lazy flame was providing almost no heat. It has been running better, not perfectly but a little cleaner. I am seeing more of the lighter ash that gets blown out but the pot does still fill with thick ash when left running for 12+ hours. With the lighter ash I'm noticing the clear patterns around the corner of the burn pot where no ashes at all are present, the rest will build up a good amount of ash but around this corner is perfectly clear.

 

[adam6979]

I can only suggest to change the parts they send you and if it still doesn't work tell them you want an exchange... you need to be able to make heat and should not have to struggle with a poorly performing stove. You will probably have to demand it though - with the expense involved it is certainly not an option a company wants to exercise.

 

[acammer]

Finally received a reply, in total it said (obviously a very word reply)

>We are sending you a door gasket, ash pan and burnpot.

Not sure how that resolves the front being slightly bowed and not sealing properly? Maybe they are using a different gasket this time?

Woke up to -22 outside and a house around 48, the stove was running but the lazy flame was providing almost no heat. It has been running better, not perfectly but a little cleaner. I am seeing more of the lighter ash that gets blown out but the pot does still fill with thick ash when left running for 12+ hours. With the lighter ash I'm noticing the clear patterns around the corner of the burn pot where no ashes at all are present, the rest will build up a good amount of ash but around this corner is perfectly clear.

Either the cradle or the burn pot is warped, more likely the burn pot. Take pictures and document everything. If the new gasket doesn't seal the door (and I wouldn't expect it to) I would grab a quick video of the gap and a dollar bill test, and let them know you need a complete resolution.

 

[jjwreil]

This location noted is 8 miles up the road from my house, needless to say with temps like this I would really love to have a stove that put out the heat its supposed to!

https://twitter.com/MichaelPageWx/status/570184225959182339/photo/1

 

[adam6979]

This location noted is 8 miles up the road from my house, needless to say with temps like this I would really love to have a stove that put out the heat its supposed to!

https://twitter.com/MichaelPageWx/status/570184225959182339/photo/1

The temp is terrible but your location is great. My step mom (passed a few years ago) was from Danville.. their whole family is. I lived in Lyndonville for 2 years when I was younger just up beyond Northern Gas. I spent many times swimming in Joe's Pond which is really like a lake where I am from!

 

[adam6979]

I had to use 7/8" gasket to get my door to seal. On the ash pan I stripped of the standard flat gasket and used a small rope gasket to get it to seal (I forget exactly maybe 1/4") and used a thick layer of silicone carefully applying pressure to squash the sides but allow the center to be a little thicker where the stove surface was bowed. I may have missed it but have you used a brush on your venting or cleaned out the combustion blower? If you ran dirty for months, no matter how often you clean your pot or improve your seals if your venting is still plugged up your burn will degrade rapidly. A leaf blower helped mine a lot, even when the issues remained.

Interesting enough I replaced the door gasket today and sure enough the 5/8 I bought was too thin and made it even worse than before. Thankfully I still had gasket left over from the ash drawer replacement - I closed the door marked where the gasket touches and applied that flat gasket to the stove, with the two of them the door now shuts tighter than ever before. If it gives me trouble again I will use a 7/8 too. JJWREIL - you may want to try the same.

 

[jjwreil]

Interesting enough I replaced the door gasket today and sure enough the 5/8 I bought was too thin and made it even worse than before. Thankfully I still had gasket left over from the ash drawer replacement - I closed the door marked where the gasket touches and applied that flat gasket to the stove, with the two of them the door now shuts tighter than ever before. If it gives me trouble again I will use a 7/8 too. JJWREIL - you may want to try the same.

Thanks for throwing this out there. In theory what they have sent should arrive today so hopefully by tonight I will know what they sent me and if it works better. I would assume they would have sent the larger gasket for the door to account for the bow but we all know what assuming can get you. I also hope they accounted for the same with the ash pan as that from the factory uses the flat gasket and not the rope gasket from the door.

The temp is terrible but your location is great. My step mom (passed a few years ago) was from Danville.. their whole family is. I lived in Lyndonville for 2 years when I was younger just up beyond Northern Gas. I spent many times swimming in Joe's Pond which is really like a lake where I am from!

Oh no question its a beautiful area, we love Joe's Pond as they have a nice little beach we take the kids to quite often in the summer.

 

[jjwreil]

My stellar luck with this stove/company continues. A week after being told the parts have been shipped with no sign of anything I ask for a tracking # and get this...

"We apoligize for the delay. The ash pan that i being sent to you with the package is actually on back order. they are being made now and will be expedited immediately upon finish."

On the bright side maybe they will have this resolved by spring!

 

[adam6979]

My stellar luck with this stove/company continues. A week after being told the parts have been shipped with no sign of anything I ask for a tracking # and get this...

"We apoligize for the delay. The ash pan that i being sent to you with the package is actually on back order. they are being made now and will be expedited immediately upon finish."

On the bright side maybe they will have this resolved by spring!

I have had similar problems. Before you add parts or change anything be sure you open the little square covers for the burn chambers and clean them out real well. I have found every three weeks is a good time frame - but if it burns dirty once or twice it can clog them up.

I added a 1/8" gasket to the face of the wood stove right where the door gasket hits. That sealed the door back up really tight.

Next thing I've been battling is if I put my burn pot back in and do not pay attention it will rock side to side and leak air around the pot instead of through it. I took a 2 foot piece of real aluminum foil and folded it into about a 6x6 square. I then sliced a slit through the middle and a little on the side to make an "I" shaped opening. I then pushed this over the burn pot and massaged it all down to act like a gasket. For the first time since I owned the stove (4th year!) the pellets lit after only 5 minutes and it changed into the RUN cycle the first time instead of E2 and then doing it again. I cannot get pics right now but I can in a day or so if you cannot understand what I am trying to say.

The stove is now burning very clean and hot - I assume as it was intended. I am not really sure why ESW does not make a burn pot gasket... my quad has was as do several others I have looked at. I have a piece of Lytherm coming to replace the tinfoil - but wanted to be sure that was the problem first... it appears it is.

 

[jjwreil]

Thanks for the reply and the tips. I may have to try a few of those. The parts from from ESW finally arrived, it appeared to include the same door gasket I already have, a new burn pot and the ash pan with the same gasket on that they had previously sent me. I didn't really see how any of this would help as it just duplicates what I already have but I gave it a shot.

The burn pot seems to be working better as this one does not appear to be warped but with the other air flow issues present I can't see how that alone will make a huge difference. And as expected the stoves performance hasn't really improved, works fine for a bit after the cleaning and then resumes the slow/lazy burn.