You need to pipe in a gauge to see what PSI the system is making. Surplus Center in Lincoln Ne is a good place to get hyd parts.
4 way wedge on home build splitter
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Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
Yep, but with noise coming from the cylinder, that's probably culprit #1, even if the pump is weak.
In working on taking the cylinder off. My dad says there’s an Amish guy that rebuilds them locally. So maybe I’ll take it to him and see what he says.
We have a family friend who owns a small construction company. He says he’s used this Amish guy before and he does good work. We’ll see I guess. Otherwise I’m looking for a new cylinder.
We have a family friend who owns a small construction company. He says he’s used this Amish guy before and he does good work. We’ll see I guess. Otherwise I’m looking for a new cylinder.
There’s a used 3-24 cylinder locally for 100 bucks. Should I hold out for a 4-20 or 4-24? My current stroke is 20”, but I could probably fit a longer cylinder. It’s the rod size I’m worried about. I think the 3-24 would have a 1.5” rod and a 4-24 would have a 2” rod. Is 1.5” enough?
Also how am I going to mount a different type of cylinder? See how mine is mounted now
One pic of my cylinder, and one of the 3-24 for sale.
Also how am I going to mount a different type of cylinder? See how mine is mounted now
One pic of my cylinder, and one of the 3-24 for sale.
See what your amish guy can do. Its gonna save you alot of fab work if he can fix the old cylinder
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
A 3" cylinder will have half the tonnage of a 4". Fabricating new mounts and the stroke length are going to be a headache. See if your current cylinder is fixable first. Paying someone to convert it to a newer cylinder will likely cost as much as a whole different splitter. Some of us have the knowledge and skill to do it, and we make it look easy, but it's not something that we can talk you through. You need the right tools, skills to use those tools, and an understanding of how it all works together or you can get yourself into some very hot water.
You have a very unique cylinder, and it may or may not be salvageable at a reasonable cost. The hydraulic lines/fittings on your splitter look undersized and more than likely are making a ton of restriction in the system. Get a quote from the Amish guy and see where that puts you. A more modern splitter can likely be found on facebook or craigslist at a reasonable price. A 1.5" rod is fine as long as the cylinder is free to move so the rod doesn't bend. Once it gets a side load, it's game over. That could be part of your problem, sonce your cylinder is held in place and the seals take the side load.
You have a very unique cylinder, and it may or may not be salvageable at a reasonable cost. The hydraulic lines/fittings on your splitter look undersized and more than likely are making a ton of restriction in the system. Get a quote from the Amish guy and see where that puts you. A more modern splitter can likely be found on facebook or craigslist at a reasonable price. A 1.5" rod is fine as long as the cylinder is free to move so the rod doesn't bend. Once it gets a side load, it's game over. That could be part of your problem, sonce your cylinder is held in place and the seals take the side load.
I think if the rod on my cylinder was smaller in diameter it would be bent by now. It helps that it’s 4 1/2” diameter. But yes, I see side loads on it when splitting. The whole rod has quite a bit of play in it. Probably 1/8” play to each side.
I don’t even know what to call my cylinder as far as size. The cylinder case diameter is about 6”. The rod diameter is 4 1/2”.
Also it has these screws. I’m wondering if they’re there to adjust the amount of side play. I’ve never messed with them.
Yeah I have some fabrication skills, but they’re not super refined. I can weld good enough for it to hold usually. It’s something I don’t do enough to get really good at.
If I could find a splitter locally that needed some work, and was the right price, I’d buy it. It would be awesome to find something that just needed a new engine. I’d swap the Honda engine on my current splitter.
But most of the splitter local to me are either someone’s DIY creation (I already have one of those. Lol), or they want a grand or more for it.
I don’t even know what to call my cylinder as far as size. The cylinder case diameter is about 6”. The rod diameter is 4 1/2”.
Also it has these screws. I’m wondering if they’re there to adjust the amount of side play. I’ve never messed with them.
Yeah I have some fabrication skills, but they’re not super refined. I can weld good enough for it to hold usually. It’s something I don’t do enough to get really good at.
If I could find a splitter locally that needed some work, and was the right price, I’d buy it. It would be awesome to find something that just needed a new engine. I’d swap the Honda engine on my current splitter.
But most of the splitter local to me are either someone’s DIY creation (I already have one of those. Lol), or they want a grand or more for it.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
There should not be any play in the rod. The seals and bushes should keep that at zero. I am going to venture a guess and say your cylinder is shot. That does not sound like a cylinder I would want on a regular wood splitter. It would take a large pump and big engine to run that with anything close to respectable cycle times, but the lines and fittings would never handle it.
Your description of your welding tells me you should not attempt to repair/modify your splitter. Structural welds have to be perfect, or very very close to perfect to not tear apart under stress. There is a lot of stress on a hydraulic cylinder. Your best bet is to find a fabricator to modify your splitter and fit a new 4" cylinder of whatever length will fit. A cylinder that has a longer stroke than needed will not benefit you. If your firewood is all under 20", then a 20" stroke would be perfect. If you sometimes cut it longer than 20, then get a 24.
Your description of your welding tells me you should not attempt to repair/modify your splitter. Structural welds have to be perfect, or very very close to perfect to not tear apart under stress. There is a lot of stress on a hydraulic cylinder. Your best bet is to find a fabricator to modify your splitter and fit a new 4" cylinder of whatever length will fit. A cylinder that has a longer stroke than needed will not benefit you. If your firewood is all under 20", then a 20" stroke would be perfect. If you sometimes cut it longer than 20, then get a 24.
@Ashful
If you’re referring to the measurements I gave for my current cylinder, the only two things I can measure are the cylinder body and the rod. The cylinder body is about 6” diameter and the rod is about 4.5” diameter. It’s a very big rod (that’s what she said). Lol
The measurements I see online for new cylinders show the rod diameter is about half of the first number, which I assume is the piston diameter. So a 4-20 cylinder would usually have a 2” rod with a 20” stroke.
@Isaac Carlson
We have a recently retired pro welder in our sail club. I’m sure I could talk him into doing some welding for me. He repaired my uncles boat trailer recently.
If you’re referring to the measurements I gave for my current cylinder, the only two things I can measure are the cylinder body and the rod. The cylinder body is about 6” diameter and the rod is about 4.5” diameter. It’s a very big rod (that’s what she said). Lol
The measurements I see online for new cylinders show the rod diameter is about half of the first number, which I assume is the piston diameter. So a 4-20 cylinder would usually have a 2” rod with a 20” stroke.
@Isaac Carlson
We have a recently retired pro welder in our sail club. I’m sure I could talk him into doing some welding for me. He repaired my uncles boat trailer recently.
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
Good to hear about the welder. Yes, a cylinder will generally have that rod diameter ratio. I don't know what size your lines are, but they should be 1/2" at the minimum. The new cylinder should have 1/2" ports, so no special fitting should be needed. Your pusher should end up about 1/2" away from the wedge at full stroke. That will break any tough strings holding the pieces together. My speeco stops a few inches short and it is a pain to separate the stringy pieces.
As was said earlier, put a gauge on the pressure side. That can be anywhere between the pump and cylinder, as long as it is reading pressure on the pushing side. Mine is right after the pump. A gauge will allow you to set your kickdown pressure and your relief pressure.
The kickdown is usually 600-900 psi. The relief is set to the lowest rating in your system, usually between 2400-3600 psi.
As was said earlier, put a gauge on the pressure side. That can be anywhere between the pump and cylinder, as long as it is reading pressure on the pushing side. Mine is right after the pump. A gauge will allow you to set your kickdown pressure and your relief pressure.
The kickdown is usually 600-900 psi. The relief is set to the lowest rating in your system, usually between 2400-3600 psi.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
If doing a new cylinder, and assuming all components are rated 3500+ psi, I'd go down to a Ø4" x 24" cylinder with a 1.75" or 2.00" rod. Based on using several, this has become my sweet spot for splitters, with the best compromise between power and speed, for splitting hardwoods.
I'd couple that with a 16 gpm pump, overspun as high as 3600 rpm, which is about the maximum you can put thru 1/2" (SAE-8) cylinder ports, without the pressure drop hurting too much. You'll be looking for at least 8 hp to push that rig, but I think you said you already had an 8 hp engine on that machine, so you should be good, there.
I'd couple that with a 16 gpm pump, overspun as high as 3600 rpm, which is about the maximum you can put thru 1/2" (SAE-8) cylinder ports, without the pressure drop hurting too much. You'll be looking for at least 8 hp to push that rig, but I think you said you already had an 8 hp engine on that machine, so you should be good, there.
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
Just remember that he might not need a 24" stroke. A 20 might be fine. I could easily do with a 20, but the 24 was what they had and it was on sale.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Good point. 20" would yield a faster cycle time, if he really can get away with it. And you really don't need the wedge to hit the foot plate, 99% of the time you'll be fine with a 20" stroke on a 22" span.
On my splitter I think there’s room for a 20” or 24”. Yeah whichever one I can get cheaper. I cut my wood at 16”, so no issue with a 20”.
I was looking at splitters on FBM last night, and I noticed most of the cylinders are mounted the same way. On the end of the cylinder they have a pin, and the other end of the cylinder is only held in place by the little guide that tracks the beam. I assume this is so there is some play in the cylinder, and if a side load is encountered, the whole cylinder moves instead of pushing on the seals.
So since my splitter has the guide at one end that pushes the wood, I would just need the mount for the other side of the cylinder to swap over to a “normal” style I think.
So since my splitter has the guide at one end that pushes the wood, I would just need the mount for the other side of the cylinder to swap over to a “normal” style I think.
I removed the cylinder and flipped it over. It didn’t wear through the case where it was mounted, but there is a hole in the case. What’s that all about? I assume that’s where it was leaking.
The hole does not appear to be threaded. But it’s definitely supposed to be there for some reason.
The hole does not appear to be threaded. But it’s definitely supposed to be there for some reason.
Closer pic.
Maybe it’s like a weep hole on a water pump. Like it if starts leaking it’s time to replace the seals? Idk
Maybe it’s like a weep hole on a water pump. Like it if starts leaking it’s time to replace the seals? Idk
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Wow, never seen that. If it were mine, and I wanted to save it, I'd be doing the following:
1. Remove front seal ring (usually snap or threaded spanner), and pull the whole rod assembly out.
2. Drill and tap that hole. De-burr (preferably chamfer) inside of threaded hole.
3. Plug with stainless screw and bonded seal type washer made for hydraulics. Ensure screw does not extend into bore.
4. Re-assemble with new seals, assuming you can find OEM or equivalents.
Or just replace. Yes, a clevis type mount is pretty common on consumer-grade log splitters, nearly ubiquitous for all but the double-acting versions. Yes, the cylinder can move around a bit, and the moving wedge or foot plate is guided by the beam, such that there can never be substantial side-loading of the cylinder. The design works very well.
1. Remove front seal ring (usually snap or threaded spanner), and pull the whole rod assembly out.
2. Drill and tap that hole. De-burr (preferably chamfer) inside of threaded hole.
3. Plug with stainless screw and bonded seal type washer made for hydraulics. Ensure screw does not extend into bore.
4. Re-assemble with new seals, assuming you can find OEM or equivalents.
Or just replace. Yes, a clevis type mount is pretty common on consumer-grade log splitters, nearly ubiquitous for all but the double-acting versions. Yes, the cylinder can move around a bit, and the moving wedge or foot plate is guided by the beam, such that there can never be substantial side-loading of the cylinder. The design works very well.
I don’t know how the cylinder comes apart. I see no snap ring or an end cap that can be removed like a regular cylinder. I tried to clean it up the best I could and take some pics.
It makes me wonder if the big flathead screws have to be removed for the rod to come out. The big screws have a smaller set screw on the side of them. And the set screws have been welded in place
It makes me wonder if the big flathead screws have to be removed for the rod to come out. The big screws have a smaller set screw on the side of them. And the set screws have been welded in place
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
Here are pics from the booklet my dad gave me. You can see the cylinder pictured. It gives no model or part number info though.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Good point. I was working under the assumption that 1) you had determined it was the source of the hydraulic leak, and 2) that you would be taking the cylinder apart to do the job, and thus confirming it was a simple hole into the bore containing hydraulic fluid (return pressure). But this is one odd cylinder, at least coming from someone who mostly only knows hydraulics WRT agricultural and recreational marine use.
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
What you have is a sleeve cylinder. The outside and rod stay in place and a sleeve travels in and out. The slotted screws are adjustable to take up side-to-side movement. The fitting on the end of the cylinder extends it and the side fitting retracts it. The hole is just an air vent to equalize pressure behind the moving sleeve. If fluid is coming out, your rod seals are bad. Your piston seals are also bad, since there is a lack of power. I don't know if parts are available for that cylinder, but you could take it in and see if they can match something up.
Isaac Carlson
Minister of Fire
Your cylinder will not make as much tonnage as a modern 4" sliding rod cylinder, but it will certainly do the job if it is repairable. The big problem I see is keeping dirt/chips out from between the tube and sleeve. There is no wiper shown in the drawings.
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