I hate to promote big box stores, but this might save readers some cash. Saw a home depot ad in NJ and it said 50% all fireplaces and woodstoves (remaining stock). I know there was a thread that spoke about the types HD carries and the reviews were decent. Think they were about 1k, so if someone can get one for 500 thats a great deal.
50% off woodstoves
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I think its a crime that they sell things in the hearth industry, i have no problem with pellets, cheap tool sets, and some single wall, But they have no place selling pellet stoves they cant service or get parts for, they have no place selling woodstoves that they cant tell you how to vent properly. I guess your right, but i get sick of moping up homedepot's messes all the time. If fits the individual consumer when the consumer doesnt have a problem. When they have a problem, its the small local guys that get to deal with it.
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100%-350% almost as bad a jewelery! J/K I agree, if a person can buy a stove and competantly install it then that's one thing. But there is no one at the HD or any other big box that I've encountered that knows their head from their a** when it comes to hearth products. I was checking out what Sutherlands had the other day and overheard a conversation between a store employee and a customer. Employee: "Yeah you take this flex pipe (pellet flex) and just cut a 3" hole in the wall and send it through. See it says "0" clearance on the tag" Customer: Oh wow that's easy! Thanks to you I now have the knowledge to go endanger my house, family and possibly community! Awesome! Or how about the lady looking for a magic heat the kid looked at her like she was from mars. Started trying to sell her a propane shop heater. What a joke.
I wouldn't trust anyone from HD or Lowes to inform me how to safely install an electrical outlet, a 220V electrical supply, shingles on my roof, wood stove, propane furnace, paint strippers with fumes that can cause brain damage, etc. They sell PLENTY of things that can hurt you, stoves are no more unsafe than half the things they sell. Many things can harm you or burn down your house when installed or operated poorly. That's life.
The big box stores exist, and prosper, for 2 reasons. Lower costs, and due to significantly reduced quality of service from small business owners. I get just as good advice (none) from Lowes as I do at my local dealer. And before you small fireplace store owners start shitting all over me, clean up your industry. My crappy dealer saw me as a walking dollar sign. No free advice. Let him install it at maximum rates or don't waste his time. My buddy in the next large city had the exact same experience, except he went to 4 or 5 stores looking for some personal service. Every single store did not want to take the time to explain things, instead just wanting him to pay a god-awful service fee for something they could not or would not explain. I maintain small guy service sux IN GENERAL. And it is darn funny how online every store owner is great and says they are not like that. Well, I don't know you. Don't worry, it is not just your industry. Car dealers suck. Boat dealers suck. My lawn service sucks. Everybody wants to just go through the motions and bill the consumer regardless. Not me. Thank god I can figure out how things work and make an educated decision on how soemthing should be done and who, if anybody, I am willing to pay to do it. I think this country operates on the principal that most people are knuckleheads and are too willing to spend every dime they get in their next paycheck, or on a credit card.
/YAY! I feel better now.
The big box stores exist, and prosper, for 2 reasons. Lower costs, and due to significantly reduced quality of service from small business owners. I get just as good advice (none) from Lowes as I do at my local dealer. And before you small fireplace store owners start shitting all over me, clean up your industry. My crappy dealer saw me as a walking dollar sign. No free advice. Let him install it at maximum rates or don't waste his time. My buddy in the next large city had the exact same experience, except he went to 4 or 5 stores looking for some personal service. Every single store did not want to take the time to explain things, instead just wanting him to pay a god-awful service fee for something they could not or would not explain. I maintain small guy service sux IN GENERAL. And it is darn funny how online every store owner is great and says they are not like that. Well, I don't know you. Don't worry, it is not just your industry. Car dealers suck. Boat dealers suck. My lawn service sucks. Everybody wants to just go through the motions and bill the consumer regardless. Not me. Thank god I can figure out how things work and make an educated decision on how soemthing should be done and who, if anybody, I am willing to pay to do it. I think this country operates on the principal that most people are knuckleheads and are too willing to spend every dime they get in their next paycheck, or on a credit card.
/YAY! I feel better now.
wahoowad said:
Amen on the whole thread but the above in particular
Dealer in my town is a JERK
Him: Who is doing the install
Me: Me
Once they find that out most dont want to give you the time of day, he must think it takes a genius to install a woodstove and a manufactured chimney
Quoted me over twice what the chimney cost me at Lowes and the Selkirk I bought at Lowes specs out the same as the stuff he carried, all the while he is telling me the "junk" they sell at Lowes is garbage
Same grade stainless
Same thickness with the same +/- for variables
That stove dealer is the reason I drove to New Hampshire to buy the Morso
Cheaper, no tax and they were happy to sell me a stove and a stovepipe thermometer
Didnt ask about chimney, installation etc.
The day I picked it up was a nice afternoon for a drive anyway
Wahoowad, I had the same experience with my dealer. When I was shopping he said they would help me with the install. After I bought they helped me by giving me the wrong things I needed for the install and then telling me that it would much easier if they just installed it. Thank goodness for the guy that delivered it, he told me that half the stuff they gave me was wrong before I started to install it. Needless to say, I just bought another stove and it wasn't from them. Sadly, though, I don't blame the dealer. I don't agree with it, but I don't blame them. Make things so confusing for the customer so that they'll be begging you to take their $600 to do the install. Not a bad business plan.
Rick
Rick
Rick said:
$600 is nothing. I got quoted $2k to install an insert into an existing chimney. I figure they were marking up the pipe 100%, then charging about $100/hr labor.
I think a lot of ti is the service - my uncle runs a hardware store and built a house from the cinderblocks up, so he's done just about everything a homeowners going to encounter. But the guys at my local hardare aren't any more knowledgable that HD, and that ain't much.
Almost makes one wonder if there's a market for a home improvement helpline or consultant visits.
Steve
I bought two different Regency's from two different dealers, and both seemed relieved I was doing the install myself. The second unit had an air tube that kept falling out.... stopped by and told him. He went into stock and gave me a new one, he said it happens all the time. No receipt, no nothin.
Both took there time and sold me all of the chimney pieces I needed, based on measurements I gave them.
Good service at two different stores.
Just put a Woodstock in my new home in the fall. I bought the chimney pipe from them, they shipped me what I needed based on measurements I gave them. Everything went together perfectly. And based on Todd's experience about an issue with his stove, Woodstock just said "If its a problem, we'll send you another stove".
Both took there time and sold me all of the chimney pieces I needed, based on measurements I gave them.
Good service at two different stores.
Just put a Woodstock in my new home in the fall. I bought the chimney pipe from them, they shipped me what I needed based on measurements I gave them. Everything went together perfectly. And based on Todd's experience about an issue with his stove, Woodstock just said "If its a problem, we'll send you another stove".
Read through this entire thread and it's clear that you can't generalize about service after the sale based on the type of store. It all boils down to individual management, and I'd be willing to bet that the same goes for the big box outlets. Some employ good, knowlegable people, and some are staffed by morons or jerks. My local Home Depot has very helpful employees who know what they're talking about.
When I bought my first house and started doing home improvements, I went to a big locally-owned hardware store/lumber yard where the prices were higher, but they would take the time to explain how to do what I was trying to do, and what I needed to do the job myself. They even had xeroxed instructions for things like wiring up a fancy switch or some common plumbing job.
Boy, was I grateful. Once I learned what I needed and how to do it (on subsequent projects), I headed right down to the big box outlets and saved some real money. That's gratitude for you.
Botton line: as long as you know what you don't know and how to find someone who does, you should be alright.
When I bought my first house and started doing home improvements, I went to a big locally-owned hardware store/lumber yard where the prices were higher, but they would take the time to explain how to do what I was trying to do, and what I needed to do the job myself. They even had xeroxed instructions for things like wiring up a fancy switch or some common plumbing job.
Boy, was I grateful. Once I learned what I needed and how to do it (on subsequent projects), I headed right down to the big box outlets and saved some real money. That's gratitude for you.
Botton line: as long as you know what you don't know and how to find someone who does, you should be alright.
Eric, thanks.
I was going to say the same things, in roughly the same way. Customer service is exactly that, a service. You can pay for it in increased prices, or a business can pay for it to increase their customer base, and amount of loyal customers.
I will almost always spend more money (a few % points) to get customer service to teach me what I need to know to do a job. As long as I can afford it.
I walked into my local hearth store, and talked to the guy extensively. I TOLD HIM I was not there to buy a stove, but to evaluate him and his store for future reference. HE still took the time to spend 45 minute with me, discussing my situation, and what I needed to do.
I bought a stove on Ebay cause it was what I could afford. But I am going to go to him to buy the liner, or at least to get a price. I still can't afford much, and if hes way above hartshearth or ventingpipe, I won't be able to afford it. But I'll try to use him, cause I appreciate the benfit of his experience, and willingness to advise and help.
My $.02
Joshua
I was going to say the same things, in roughly the same way. Customer service is exactly that, a service. You can pay for it in increased prices, or a business can pay for it to increase their customer base, and amount of loyal customers.
I will almost always spend more money (a few % points) to get customer service to teach me what I need to know to do a job. As long as I can afford it.
I walked into my local hearth store, and talked to the guy extensively. I TOLD HIM I was not there to buy a stove, but to evaluate him and his store for future reference. HE still took the time to spend 45 minute with me, discussing my situation, and what I needed to do.
I bought a stove on Ebay cause it was what I could afford. But I am going to go to him to buy the liner, or at least to get a price. I still can't afford much, and if hes way above hartshearth or ventingpipe, I won't be able to afford it. But I'll try to use him, cause I appreciate the benfit of his experience, and willingness to advise and help.
My $.02
Joshua
SCFA said:
I'd buy one in a NY minute if I had a need for it!
That's about their cost - HD gets about 50% off from a company like Englander........
Markup on stoves? That depends on how many you buy, freight deal and a lot more. I remember some stoves that have margins as low as 25%, and then the dealer had to pay full freight....., so like any other business, it depends on how many truckloads you are buying....
Stoves and Fireplaces are definitely sold at higher markup than computers and customer electronics...but that is becuase they are harder to sell, therefore the inventory does not turn over as often. High costs such as qualified sales people, large warehouse spaces and high insurance rates add to the expense.
Although I do know some stove retailers that have gotten very wealthy, it is typically after 20 years+ and a LOT of hard work - and they are still working! So, in the scheme of things, this means they must not be making TOO much.
George said:
At the two Lowes stores here the black pipe, connectors and chimney cleaning rods are in the HVAC piping section of the store. Year round.
Same for the Lowes store in Waldorf MD...Stove pipe, double wall stack and cleaning gear is all on the same isle...was there this summer as well. I did note that this past summer the stack and stove pipe at HD was in the HVAC area, but they moved it down to the seasonal side of the store and it appears to now be back in HVAC land. Makes sense I guess..
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