Starting New Install need some advice and opinions!

[Oklaguy77]

I've never had, or installed a woodstove and I feel like I'm leaping off a cliff but its time to start the install! I have read and researched so much and talked to friends, family, and the stove store owner, that I feel pretty good about doing it myself. I'm a welder by trade and have a background in construction so I'm not entirely out of my mind, lol.

I'm here asking for advice from people who have been there and done that. My motives are almost entirely self serving; better heat, cheaper electric bill; happy wife; etc etc...the whole clean energy thing is awesome but not the main motivation. I find this forum to be an excellent source of raw information and opinion, but as of yet I've no idea how to filter the "truth" and the "bs" and different things work for different people.

So onwards to the plan:


I'm ready to start buying supplies to begin installing my tl300. While I've been researching for a while and have a solid plan in mind, I would like to see if anyone has any ideas or can offer solutions for an obvious problem(s) with my plan.

I'm doing a corner install and building my own hearth pad; what I have in mind is a 2x4 frame that I will anchor to both walls and the floor. 1/2" durock on top of that, finished with porcelain tile (.413" thick) sides to be trimmed with wood to match the room.

Following the owners manual for the Harman tl300, clearance to the walls puts my installation in a bit of a bind. From the corner of stove to nearest wall has to be 18". When I measure everything out, my support box is going to run into a rafter. Easiest clearance is to move the stove 2" closer to the corner, for 16 9/16" from corner of stove to the wall instead of 18". My thinking at this point is to put two 15° dw elbows together to make clearance. I'm not at all sure that will work, but its the best idea I have. Because my install is off corner pulling it forward would require it to be way to far out in the room. If the double elbows won't work, I'll probably install it slightly against recommended clearance, unless someone can offer a better solution.(major construction to the ceiling/roof are not viable options at this point) I'm hoping someone has an elbow in their chimney pipe and can confirm it doesn't effect draft too much. If I do have to violate clearance I will install some corrugated sheet metal with 1"spacers.

As for the support and pipe, I go tomorrow to talk to the Harman dealer and order everything I need. I do know that the manual recommends 16' above the stove. I plan on going 16' to make sure my stove gets the correct draft(hopefully) and need some advice on how many chimney supports to install. There is about 6' from top of stove to the ceiling so I'm going right at 10' above the roof, and I'm planning on one support at the 5' mark, but should I put two supports on and devide the difference equally? (like 3.3 ft and 6.6ft?) I just don't have any experience with this and have no idea how much it might blow around.

I'm sure there will be more questions to come and so I'll end my book here. Thanks in advance for those that take the time to help out a newb!

 

[WellSeasoned]

I just went through the exact situation you have with my install a couple weeks ago. First off, does your stove manufacturer offer any heat shields with your stove? If so, you can reduce clearances, and may our may not need to cut through that rafter. If so, it can be reinforced and boxed out for your ceiling stove box.

(broken image removed)


I also have 16' of chimney, perfect draft so far (still learning the ins & outs with stove), comes out of roof 10 feet, so I have 2 telescoping anchor rods to attach chimney to roof for support. I think you need 2 for every 5'.

 

[Oklaguy77]

Yes actually my stove does already have the heat shields installed so I assumed the measurements were including the shields. I'll read up on the manual again to see if they are optional or standard equip and included in the measurements, THANKS!

 

[SlyFerret]

Straight up and out is ideal, but two 15* elbows to line up with your rafters isn't going to reduce your systems performance much.

What does your manual say about r-value for your hearth pad under the stove? Some stoves don't require any, only a non combustable surface, others need a certain insulation value between the stove and any combustable subfloor materials.

So far, you seem to be pretty well set for this project.

My only advice is to exceed all clearancs required by the stove manufacturer and/or local code. That way, you know your inspector won't have anything to question about your install.

-SF

 

[babzog]

When my Regency was installed, they ran into a truss. Had to install an offset to move the chimney about 2". No big deal.

 

[Oklaguy77]

there are two clearance issues to consider the stove location and the clearance of the connector pipe. If using single wall it is 18" in all directions. double wall is usually 9" or manufacture specs. and if being inspected your clearance will surly be checked. Consider installing reduced wall clearance shields. I would check your r or u value for hearth protection 1/2" durarock may not be enough being .42 per 1/2 inch I think your stove requires .85 more or less. and one can cut a rafter if properly headed off. as for chimney height it has to be 2' higher than any other structure within 10 feet ... support bracing according to manufacture specs.. and check your stove manual it could be 16' from the floor of the stove which would reduce your outside requirements

I'm glad you asked, when I checked the manual again there are two sets of measurements sw and dw. If I go DW all the way up clearances are not a problem. As for the hearth pad the manual says "This floor protection must be a minimum of 20 ga. sheet metal in thickness, it can also be stone or tile or other masonry material,
providing it is non-combustible." So as far as r value I'm ok. I don't know what u value is? The chimney height is from the flue collar, and my 16' will exceed the 3',2',10' rule. Also I can't find anything on support bracing for the chimney in the manual but I've read several places that a brace should be used every 5' but I'm going to ask the dealer today when I order the pipe.

SlyFerret- I know it makes me sound dumb, but I don't know who to call for an inspection or whether or not I have to have it inspected? I live outside city limits and I've already checked to make sure I don't need a county permit and they didn't mention inspection either, I will look into this some more.

Babzog- Although I think my problem is solved, what kind of offset did you use?

 

[Wood Duck]

I would consider adding extra R-value to the floor of your raised hearth. Adding it now might not cost much (amybe just more layers of durock) and could allow you a wider choice of stoves if you ever decide to change your stove. I assume you have checked to make sure the floor you're planning to build meets the specs for your stove. My Lopi requires only a non-combustible floor. Other very similar stoves require more than tile and one layer of durock will provide.

 

[Oklaguy77]

I would consider adding extra R-value to the floor of your raised hearth. Adding it now might not cost much (amybe just more layers of durock) and could allow you a wider choice of stoves if you ever decide to change your stove. I assume you have checked to make sure the floor you're planning to build meets the specs for your stove. My Lopi requires only a non-combustible floor. Other very similar stoves require more than tile and one layer of durock will provide.

I appreciate your point of view, but my whole install is based on the stove I have, clearances, chimney height, pad size, etc... I can only hope that the future finds me happy with my stove, lol. Also I have a limited budget so I'm trying to keep cost down while safely installing this thing.

I ordered all my pipe today and it wasn't cheap. I went with Metal-Fab Temp Guard at my dealer....It was quite a bit cheaper online but I bought local from a small business...also when i told them how much cheaper (free shipping and no tax) it was online they were gracious enough to knock an additional 10% off the total...so while it was more, I'm happy.(mostly) Does anyone have this brand?

 

[Hogwildz]

I myself would use steel studs rather than wood for the hearth framing. You can always double them up against each other for added support.
Elbows will be fine. I personally would rather go straight up and do what need to be done that way. Easier to clean with no bends.

 

[Oklaguy77]

I myself would use steel studs rather than wood for the hearth framing. You can always double them up against each other for added support.
Elbows will be fine. I personally would rather go straight up and do what need to be done that way. Easier to clean with no bends.

Well as it turns out I will be going straight up with double wall pipe. According to the manual I can move the stove closer to the walls if I use DW. I wouldn't have thought that to be true, but its great!

 

[Hogwildz]

I myself would use steel studs rather than wood for the hearth framing. You can always double them up against each other for added support.
Elbows will be fine. I personally would rather go straight up and do what need to be done that way. Easier to clean with no bends.

Well as it turns out I will be going straight up with double wall pipe. According to the manual I can move the stove closer to the walls if I use DW. I wouldn't have thought that to be true, but its great!

Be careful with those curtains on that window nearby.

 

[Oklaguy77]

Be careful with those curtains on that window nearby.[/quote]

I will! We're planning on removing at least the near side and running the stove to see how hot things actually get, maybe we'll be able to install some mini blinds.

 

[babzog]

SlyFerret- I know it makes me sound dumb, but I don't know who to call for an inspection or whether or not I have to have it inspected? I live outside city limits and I've already checked to make sure I don't need a county permit and they didn't mention inspection either, I will look into this some more.

Babzog- Although I think my problem is solved, what kind of offset did you use?

They used an offset on the chimney, kinda like those adjustable elbows for heat ducts but these were chimney and just had one rotating piece (they used two).

Your county must have a building dept. Call them to schedule an inspection. There are many things I wouldn't bother having inspected but combustion appliances will be examined every time, even if just to square things up with the ins. company.

 

[Oklaguy77]

SlyFerret- I know it makes me sound dumb, but I don't know who to call for an inspection or whether or not I have to have it inspected? I live outside city limits and I've already checked to make sure I don't need a county permit and they didn't mention inspection either, I will look into this some more.

Babzog- Although I think my problem is solved, what kind of offset did you use?

They used an offset on the chimney, kinda like those adjustable elbows for heat ducts but these were chimney and just had one rotating piece (they used two).

Your county must have a building dept. Call them to schedule an inspection. There are many things I wouldn't bother having inspected but combustion appliances will be examined every time, even if just to square things up with the ins. company.

As it turns out, my county does have a building/inspection dept. They told me there is no required permit and no inspection required. I asked if they had building codes to install wood stoves and they literally told me to "follow whatever comes with the stove" I asked if there was someone that could come look at my setup just for my own peace of mind and the answer was no. I live outside city limits but pay city electric so I called the city and got the same basic answers. In the end they both said I could pay for a home inspection(like when you're buying a house) inspector to come check it out. I called my insurance office and asked them what proper procedure was and he said when I'm FINISHED installing it, then they would inspect it. (He recommended following the manufactures directions) It seems like most people on the forum get theirs inspected, any from oklahoma? And how much did you have to pay for an inspection?

 

[babzog]

I would even exceed the manuf's clearances (which are minimums). Give an extra 1/2" - 1" (or more) so there's no room for argument (plus, it makes it that little bit safer). My woodstove hearth exceeds the clearance by 2-3" IIRC and the corner clearances were +.5". I'm going to have the contractor extend the hearth for the Opel by at least another couple inches. Had a couple coals drop out from logs that fell against the glass and, with a 15" drop to the floor, they bounce.

 

[Oklaguy77]

I would even exceed the manuf's clearances (which are minimums). Give an extra 1/2" - 1" (or more) so there's no room for argument (plus, it makes it that little bit safer). My woodstove hearth exceeds the clearance by 2-3" IIRC and the corner clearances were +.5". I'm going to have the contractor extend the hearth for the Opel by at least another couple inches. Had a couple coals drop out from logs that fell against the glass and, with a 15" drop to the floor, they bounce.

I understand your thinking, I plan to install my stove where it WILL meet manufactures clearances, if only barely. I plan on watching the wall temps very closely.