90 days with a Blaze King, Love it and have creosote questions

[jase]

Hello,

My first post here (and first wood burning forum I have joined). I've been burning wood for about 5 years, and finally upgraded from a Waterford Trinity to a Blaze King King.. Love the stove, and suspect I am creating creosote in how I am using it.

Prior to the switch I would get a soot or dry fluffy dust when sweeping the chimney. Last week when I pulled the stove pipe out of the thimble I was greeted with shiny black varnished and peeling black 'tree bark' like textures. Yuck! !

I am guessing that I have not been running the stove hot enough to keep the chimney warm. The chimney is an interior lined masonry with ID being 11" X 7" My wood is or was a mix of mostly seasoned maple, with some beach and birch having a moisture content between 15-20% depending upon where in the pile it came from.

As it was I would fire the stove until the cat got excited, then usually leave the thermometer open for another 20 minutes until turning it down to half. Anything below half would cause the stove to go out by the time I get back home. . Much above half and I would burn through all of the wood I loaded and then vent the heat up the stack.. so I rather like running the stove at about 55%

BUT that seems to be a bad idea for the health of my chimney. It is my intention to sweep the chimney and then I guess I will use some of that Rutland or Red devil chemical chimney prep before sweeping again.

Suggestions on how to operate the stove differently appreciated.

Thanks.
jason

 

[bholler]

How are you testing your wood? It sounds like wet wood to me but some pics and a full description of your whole install may reveal some other problems.

 

[kennyp2339]

BK's require wood that is 15% moisture content due to there lower output of flue gas temps. This stove while easy to run requires a different thought process.
The T-stat controls the air flow, the cat being in the top center of the stove essentially makes 80% of the heat when running in alien mode. Due to this you are essentially making a slow but steady out put of heat that will last for many many hours.
This smoldering or capability to smolder a fire box load while burning clean is why BK suggests using wood at 15% moisture content, it simply burns better.
Flue gasses are also noticeably cooler that any epa tube stove, figure between 300 - 400 deg's while epa stoves cruising low (they run at higher temps, designed that way) will give you between 500 -600 deg.
BK suggests that all masonry flues have an insulated liner, this helps with establishing and keeping a good draft, that's why its recommended that a princess has a 6" chimney system and a king has an 8" system. Even though you have an interior masonry chimney heat might be absorbed into the masonry or due to the larger volume of the chimney (11x7) causing the flue gases to cool and condense building up creosote.
Like bholler said, check your wood 1st, make sure the moisture is in the mid teens, then check your chimney system, you may want to install a liner with insulation before the next heating season so your not fighting this stove, plus if you get it running cleaner, you can run it lower and cash in on the long burn times while maintaining safe and balanced heat.

 

[jase]

Ok that is good information. Thank you!

I'm testing the wood with a probe type moisture meter... splitting it first, and testing the inside of the freshly exposed wood.

As for a flue liner, is that an instance where a professional show up and puts a stainless steel liner in and then pours insulation that hardens around it?

I would love to get the full performance out of the stove...

 

[tarzan]

I'm not convinced your wood is the problem. I (and others here) have burned wood up to 25% moisture content without the problems you describe. Even assuming your wood isn't as dry as you think, your fire shouldn't completely snuff itself out when turned down after a 20 minute burn in with the thermometer on high. This, and the creosote buildup you describe after 3 months of burning on a medium setting, suggests draft problems. Assuming you are keeping the cat in the active range.

I would contact Blaze King. They will be happy to help you.

 

[bholler]

I'm not convinced your wood is the problem. I (and others here) have burned wood up to 25% moisture content without the problems you describe. Even assuming your wood isn't as dry as you think, your fire shouldn't completely snuff itself out when turned down after a 20 minute burn in with the thermometer on high. This, and the creosote buildup you describe after 3 months of burning on a medium setting, suggests draft problems. Assuming you are keeping the cat in the active range.

I would contact Blaze King. They will be happy to help you.

You may have stronger draft that can help overcome poor wood quality. But his symptoms typically point to wood. But it could be weak draft which is why i asked for more details

 

[jase]

I may not have been clear in my description: the fire does not go out (if I burn at less than 1/2 thermostat) right away, but it does die out before it has consumed all of the wood...

I did talk with Blaze King and they recommended a double wall stove pipe. My call to them was based upon not being able get really long burns out of the stove.... and Yes I am starting to understand that there is a draft problem... Can a draft problem also be a part of the Creosote production symptom? (I am guessing that is not the case... I just need more insulation in the chimney, but asking anyway, as I am new to this)

 

[jase]

I will get a picture of the stove..... and test next years wood to see if it needs more drying. It has been stacked and covered for 2 seasons as of right now..

 

[tarzan]

You may have stronger draft that can help overcome poor wood quality. But his symptoms typically point to wood. But it could be weak draft which is why i asked for more details

I do have good draft and keeping in mind that no two setups are the same, it would be impossible to compare results based on thermostat settings alone but the fire snuffing itself out at any setting lower than 50% after a 20 minute burn in on high sounds like draft issues to me.

Like I said above, his wood may not be as dry as he thinks but I do know that with good draft I have no problem burning wood much higher than 15% moisture.

 

[tarzan]

I may not have been clear in my description: the fire does not go out (if I burn at less than 1/2 thermostat) right away, but it does die out before it has consumed all of the wood...

I did talk with Blaze King and they recommended a double wall stove pipe. My call to them was based upon not being able get really long burns out of the stove.... and Yes I am starting to understand that there is a draft problem... Can a draft problem also be a part of the Creosote production symptom? (I am guessing that is not the case... I just need more insulation in the chimney, but asking anyway, as I am new to this)

Yes, a draft problem can absolutely lead to more creosote buildup. More insulation = warmer flue = better draft. Blaze King is very specific on proper flue requirements. These stoves can run at a lower air setting than most modern stoves and with a cooler flue temp than most, therefore meeting proper flue requirements is a must for proper performance in most cases.

 

[Highbeam]

I tried to look but didn't see where you stated how tall this masonry chimney is? The bk requires 15' of vertical 8" chimney and since you seem to have two bends, closer to 20' is required. I wonder just what size of liner was dropped into that small masonry flue. Is it maybe 6" round?

Bottom line, you are not running the stove hot enough if the fire goes out with fuel remaining. Creosote deposits in the flue are further evidence that you need to run it at a higher setting. It's fun and amazing to see how low you can go but if you go too low, the cat stalls.

 

[jetsam]

Sounds like poor draft to me.

 

[jase]

Glad I am asking questions here, as the dealer I got the stove from is next to useless...

It sounds like I need to figure out how to get my wood drier.... and improve my draft..as the flue is too big and cold....

My chimney flue ends 19' above the thimble. then there is another 6 or so inches and a cement cap.

 

[begreen]

Is there an insulated liner in the clay tile liner of the chimney? If not, dropping a pre-insulated, 8" stainless liner down the chimney and connecting it to the stove should make a nice draft improvement and it will keep flue gases hotter, which will help cut down creosote build-up. I'd also use double-wall stove pipe and possibly remove the 90º elbow and soften the angle with a pair of 45s.

 

[jase]

Dropping an insulated liner down the flue sounds deliciously simple... although I may need to use the fireplace as the stove-thimbled flue is only 7 inches by 11 inches.. and it looks like most liners are 9.5 across... It would be a good opportunity to insulate-close the fire place anyway.

 

[begreen]

It may take an insulated oval liner to make this work. Duraliner is pre-insulated but 10.75 x 4.75" which would be tight.

 

[BKVP]

Look at BDM Bernard Dalson and Olympia. Both make great flex liners some are even smooth wall inside.

 

[bholler]

Both make great flex liners some are even smooth wall inside.

The only smooth wall they should be using is either heavy wall or the mid weight the 2 ply smooth wall crap is a horrible product. In order to get an 8 inch equivilant oval in with insulation you will probably have to remove the clay liners.

 

[kennyp2339]

Which stove do you have? only the king stove requires an 8" flue liner, the others require 6"

 

[bholler]

Which stove do you have? only the king stove requires an 8" flue liner, the others require 6"

He says king on his opening post.

 

[jase]

The only smooth wall they should be using is either heavy wall or the mid weight the 2 ply smooth wall crap is a horrible product. In order to get an 8 inch equivilant oval in with insulation you will probably have to remove the clay liners.

OK, I am going to be installing a liner, I may put it in the chimney of the fireplace. That allows for any size liner, with out having to break up the tile liner in the wood stove flue. What brands or styles of chimney liner are very good to excellent quality?

 

[bholler]

OK, I am going to be installing a liner, I may put it in the chimney of the fireplace. That allows for any size liner, with out having to break up the tile liner in the wood stove flue. What brands or styles of chimney liner are very good to excellent quality?

There are many good brands we use primarily olympia products but there are many other good ones out there. As far as type of liner for a bk I would go with mid weight liner (olympia calls theirs hybrid) it is the same construction as the heavy wall liner we usually use for wood stoves. Just a little thinner which should work fine with the low temps of a bk. Plain old corrugated light wall will work also just wont hold up as well and it is not smoothwall

 

[jase]

There are many good brands we use primarily olympia products but there are many other good ones out there. As far as type of liner for a bk I would go with mid weight liner (olympia calls theirs hybrid) it is the same construction as the heavy wall liner we usually use for wood stoves. Just a little thinner which should work fine with the low temps of a bk. Plain old corrugated light wall will work also just wont hold up as well and it is not smoothwall

Thank You Bholler. I am understanding that there are different thickness of liners available, and mid-weight would be appropriate for the BK style of stove. I will begin a search to find out what is available locally, and see what is available. I will start by looking at-for olympia products and see if they are available....

 

[begreen]

Ventis (Olympia) liner is sold under the Champion brand http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Chimney-Liners/?state=5758

 

[bholler]

Ventis (Olympia) liner is sold under the Champion brand http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimney/Chimney-Liners/?state=5758

Their liners are not ventis just their chimney and connecter pipe. I also didnt see hybrid there. Just forever flex called easy flex. And armor flex they call it heavy flex. Either willl work. But i think the mid weight stuff is the right liner here