A few Ideal Steel ?s

[flyfish]

I have a few questions about my brand new ideal steel. I will preface this with a bit of background. I have a new to me house, with a brick with clay liner interior chimney. I am going to reline the chimney(insulated ss) this summer. About 19' of run to the top.

I just purchased a new ideal steel stove and installed it this past week, and have had jus a few fires in it. It has a soapstone liner and no ash pan. I am currently using 3 feet of single wall pipe and an elbow to connect into the masonry chimney. I am in Maine, and we are now getting into some milder temps of 30s and 40s during the day. I am not sure if some of what I am seeing is draft related issues that the liner and colder temps will later fix (I hope).

I have noticed that the stove seems real slow to get started. When I get the kindling going with the door cracked, as soon as I close the door, it really slows the fire quite a bit, even with the air all the way open. Is this what others are seeing as well? Then it seems like the stove takes quite a while to get up to temp, and hangs between 300-400 for a long time. Once it does get to temp it runs great, with nice secondary's and good burn times. What is a good stovetop temp for this stove to cruise at? 500?

Also the stove seems real dark a lot of the time with no real flames showing, but real good temps like 500 on the top. Am I running this correctly, or am I shutting it down to much?

Today I noticed that the soapstone liner has taken on a black and brown covering, with a little bit of the dreaded shiny black as well. Is this normal? Makes me wonder what my chimney is looking like? I have had not cat (Lopi) stoves before and the firebrick inside always stayed clean, and I am not sure if this is normal for a cat stove?

I also am struggling with the thought of not knowing if the cat is running or not. I always wait until the stovepipe is at least 300 before I engage the cat. Once I engage it the pipe temp will drop some, but the stove top temp will hover around 300-400 and I just don't know if the cat is light or not. Any one else see this?

This is my first cat stove, and all new ground for me. I know this is supposed to be a great stove, and I just don't want to screw it up! Any help much appreciated. Thanks.

 

[jeff_t]

First, everybody is gonna want to know how dry your wood is, so you should have a answer ready.

Your startup issue sounds draft related to me. Nineteen feet of oversized masonry chimney with two 90s isn't a good formula for optimum performance. My guess is that everything you try to figure out with the stove now will be thrown out the window when you get the liner in. If you have a dark firebox and 500° temps, I think you are doing okay. That's gotta mean the cat is working. I think. I know of several people that have quite a bit of IS burning experience, but they aren't here.

The inside of my stove accumulates way more creosote than the chimney. Pretty typical of cat stove operation.

 

[begreen]

The wood is the most likely suspect if the chimney is ok. What are you burning and how long has it seasoned after splitting?

Tell us a lot more about the chimney. How tall is it? Is there a 6" stainless liner in it? If not, what is the clay liner size? If clay liner, how is the cleanout door sealed? Is the IS the only thing on the chimney?

 

[JA600L]

The Ideal Steel does not have a very strong start up. Cracking the door open with poor draft warm weather sounds normal. Get the chimney optimized and try it after that.

The black build up and dark box are perfectly normal. Monitor your stovetop temp after the bypass is closed. It helps to put a gauge on the front of the stove where the cat aims. This gives you a fast indication of cat take off. That dial begins moving fast when the cat is lit.

 

[flyfish]

The wood I am using has been cut and split at least three years. I really, really don't suspect the wood in this case. I am certainly willing to try the grocery store kiln dried stuff though, and will.... After posting this earlier I read the "READ THIS FIRST" tabs at the top of the page, and they really made me think I have a draft issue. The chimney is 19 feet tall from the thimble I am using. Nothing else using the same chimney. 8X8 flue tiles with a 6.75 inside diameter ( an insulated 5.5 liner won't fit, and don't ask me how I know this grrrr) . The clean out door is in the basement but not sealed. How do I do this? Hi temp silicone?

My next question is when I get the liner is that really going to help? The chimney will be the SAME height, and STILL have and elbow in it. Seems like the improvement would be pretty limited?

I am having the tiles broke out next week by a pro, and going to have a second go around with attempting to line it myself. This time I am going to go with a pre insulated flex type liner I think. I had a pretty poor experience on my first attempt and ruined $700 worth of materials.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like the wood should be good. It could just be mild temps have reduced draft. What temp is it outside? Regular silicone is fine for sealing the cleanout door. Run a thick bead around the door rim with the door open, then close it and let it set up. But no need to do this if you are going to put in a liner and cap the bottom of the tee. The liner will help a bit because it will be sized correctly for the flue outlet and it will be round instead of square. Insulation on the liner will also help draft and improve safety.

 

[begreen]

If the inside of the chimney is pretty clean and clear of mortar blobs you might consider not breaking out the tiles and instead installing DuraLiner. It is 6 5/8" OD. The chimney will need to be cleaned first. This liner is high quality, rigid that you ss pop-rivet together sections as installed. It's a good system.
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)

 

[JA600L]

How tight is your house?

 

[Isaiah53]

I do not have any experience with the operation of the Ideal Steel, but I think the liner will make a big difference in the start-up. I suspect you are not getting the draft during this time because you are having to heat up the entire clay chimney, which cools your flue gas temperatures and reduces the draft. Heating up the liner takes a lot less time than the masonry chimney, and helps maintain the flue temperature.

 

[flyfish]

The temps have been low 40s and upper 30s in the evenings when I have been burning. I would think that this would be at least contributing to the lack of draft I am experiencing. The house is certainly not tight, as it is an old farmhouse around 1500 sq feet. I guess the only thing I can do now is get the liner in this summer and hope for an improvement for the fall. I thank you all for your input, and maybe I will update this tread when I get the improvements done.

As a side note, I bought the stove as the "plain Jane" model, with just the soapstone liner and andirons upgraded. No ash pan, not cook tops, no side art. The stove is just charcoal colored. That being said I think it is a gorgeous stove! The finish/welds/ and over all look of the stove are great! I can tell that Woodstock takes some pride in the products they are selling. An impressive piece of equipment for sure! I just hope I can learn to run it so I can get the full potential out of it. Thank you all for your help!

 

[begreen]

Hmmm, at those temps we have good draft. It has to be closer to 50 before I notice a reduction and even then the fire takes off pretty quickly. I just have to be mindful of smoke spillage until the flue is warmed up. That is with a straight up 20 ft chimney and good dry kindling.

 

[JA600L]

I think the two elbows are the biggest problem. I have the same setup. My buddy has an IS with a straight up chimney and he said his stove drafts without any flaw. It makes sense. I have two elbows and then a 25 ft liner.

Also, note the hole directly under the door while it's open. Blow some air through there and make sure it is not restricted.

 

[unhdsm]

Mine burns more like that in the shoulder season. Totally different stove when it drops below 15 degrees F.
We didn't really have a shoulder season at the end of last year so this past fall we saw some of this same stuff and learned that running low it regulates itself much different (and probably more like a fireview). Some of your issue may be draft related but I wouldn't panic until you get to run in actual cold weather. I do think a liner will help.
Also, I find the stove runs best between 425F and 600F stovetop temps next to the outlet (top vent).

 

[begreen]

Sounds like the IS wants a strong draft. This is not uncommon with secondary burn stoves, particularly if the air intake passages are long or have multiple turns in them. Draft can be improved by using a pair of 45's with an offset to soften the first 90 deg. elbow. Double-wall connector pipe will also help a little here.

 

[flyfish]

Well I think I will take the approach of not panicking too much yet. I will get the liner in this summer, and wait for colder temps next fall. I am sure I can get it figured out. Begreen I have given some thought to what your are saying about the 45's, and may try that approach. I sort of bought the single wall pipe I am using as a temporary fix to try the stove out this spring, but I know that really double wall would be better. The potential issue for me that I see using the 45s is that my stove is only 6 inches away from my masonry chimney ( read that NON combustible), and that the 45s may push the stove out more than I would like.

 

[SteveKG]

I am on my first winter using a Woodstock Keystone. Not the same stove, but I have found that, in my installation with my wood, I have to leave the door cracked a lot longer than the instructions advise. As in, sometimes fifteen or twenty minutes. That is with some smallish splits, not a cold stove stuffed full of wood. I have two 45s from stove to chimney. At first, when I closed off the door after five minutes or so, I would experience what you've seen. You need to keep fooling with yours; eventually, you'll come up with what it takes in your case. And, with your need for the two 90s, once the new liner is installed, again you'll need to experiment. That stove will work perfectly; you will simply have to keep fine-tuning your methods to find what your stove and your chimney need to work well.

 

[begreen]

Another mild weather trick can be to improve the kindling. If you have access to construction cut-offs, they work great. Use a hatchet and split off strips from the 2x lumber scraps. They ignite quickly and burn hot. Cabinetry scraps are also excellent kindling. Then resplit some of your firewood down to 2-3" splits for quicker ignition and use them to get the fire going.

 

[pdxdave]

Considering your draft setup it sounds like you are doing really well. Temps at 500 indicate the cat is active and burning very clean.

 

[flyfish]

I am on my first winter using a Woodstock Keystone. Not the same stove, but I have found that, in my installation with my wood, I have to leave the door cracked a lot longer than the instructions advise. As in, sometimes fifteen or twenty minutes. That is with some smallish splits, not a cold stove stuffed full of wood. I have two 45s from stove to chimney. At first, when I closed off the door after five minutes or so, I would experience what you've seen. You need to keep fooling with yours; eventually, you'll come up with what it takes in your case. And, with your need for the two 90s, once the new liner is installed, again you'll need to experiment. That stove will work perfectly; you will simply have to keep fine-tuning your methods to find what your stove and your chimney need to work well.

Yeah this is essentially what I have been doing. That is, getting a real good fire established with the door open, and keeping a very close eye on it while it was doing it, as not to over fire. It seems like once it reaches a certain point, I am all set and it burns fine from then on. I will try splitting my kindling and firewood a bit finer. Its supposed to be rainy and in the 30s-40s here the next week, so I should have the opportunity for a few more fires.

So with these cat stoves is it pretty normal to have the real dark firebox while burning and up to temp? I have had it be fairly dark for 3-4 hours at a time ( just a few flames here and there) and it hold a pretty good temp like 400-500 the whole time. Should I be giving it more air?

I appreciate all of your help!