A new stove MAYBE

[Snowy Rivers]

Cruised over and looked at the Englander page and reviewed the specs.

This stove is also a top feeder, but with the pot stir device ???????/

I worked with the Old Whits for quite a while to get them adapted to run the shells.

I won't stretch this "adapt" to mean work perfectly. The fact is that running on shells, even with the mods the pot must be tended during the daily running times.

The big difference between the shells and the pellets beingn that the pellets are like tiny little logs and roll down and scatter across the fire fairly well.

The shells on the other hand fall out of the shute into a little cone shaped PILE right below the drop chute.

The outer part of the PILE burns while the inner part just cooks into a hard clinker.

The shells are broken up into small pieces the lagest of which is about the size of your little finger nail, maybe slightly larger.

Some times the stuff is even smaller.

The bottom feed concept seems to me as the solution to getting the fuel fed into the fire and the old burnt materials PUSHED OUT

Here are a couple pix of the shells I use.

Snowy

 

[Fsappo]

Does anyone else live near Snowy that would box some up for me? I'd like to try them but dont wanna keep beggin I can have UPS pick them up on our dime. I think it would be worth it for the experiment

 

[Delta-T]

Does anyone else live near Snowy that would box some up for me? I'd like to try them but dont wanna keep beggin I can have UPS pick them up on our dime. I think it would be worth it for the experiment

if you're payin for travel expenses I'll just head on over to snowy's right now....figure, if I jump on I-90 I can get there for wed afternoon, I'll pick you up on the way Frank....can we say roadtrip? hopefully this time we do not end up in Tijuana.

 

[DexterDay]

Are these "Bottom feeders"

I have had a few different stoves over the years and the Whitfields have been the best (SO FAR) at handling the shells.

The old Earth stove WP-50 was ok but the "Natural fire" burn tray would clog up with clinker and need a quicky clean at least twice a day.

I really like the idea that Harman has of the fuel feed shoving the burnt materials out the front of the pot, thus keeping the fire pot clear of clinker.

I have found that the airflow up through the fire pot is just not enough to keep the clinkers formed with the burning shells cleared out.

Pellets, even poor quality ones are a whole different game than the nut shells.

The shells have all sorts of stuff in them.

There are a percentage of nut meats that have a lot of oils plus there is a percentage of dirt that is bound to get caught in the mix.

Even though the nuts are washed prior to drying there is always some dirt that gets through.


The combination of all this makes for a clinker prone fire.


Maybe someone will loan me a PC45 for a month, to test :bug:

Snowy

The Englander 10-CPM, Enviro M55 or the Magnum Countryside are all top feeders like your Whit's. The bottom feed of any Harman will not burn your Shells. It would Have to be the Harman PC-45 model (multi-fuel), is the only Harman that can do it (100% anyways). The thing that the Harman PC-45 has in common with all the other stoves listed, is the agitator in the pot. The agitator spins around, and breaks up any clinkers and throws them out. The same way that the Harman PC-45 would do it. The agitator is the Key Item to all these stoves.

You couldn't go buy any Harman P-Series stove. Would have to be the PC-45. With the problems they have had, and with the different burn pot's, I would look at the other stoves too. The Englander for the price is a good stove.Can get a "Rebuilt" one from Englander with a full Factory Warranty, for fairly cheap. I believe imacman got his from ampmstoves?? Would have to PM him to find out for sure. The Enviro's (M-55, Omega, Maxx-M) are very nice to, but once someone buys a good stove like that, they normally dont sell them right away. Don't get hooked on the bottom feed. All P-series are bottom feed and clean pellet ash out nicely. But the stove you will need to look for, is the PC-45 and the agitator is what is gonna keep that stove clean.

Not knocking Harman. But the Top Feed or Bottom Feed really isn't the issue with a "Multi-Fueler". Its the "Stirrer" or Agitator" that's gets the job done and does it efficiently.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

The biggest concern I have is that to just swap stoves is not gonna be worth the effort and $$$$$$$$$$ if I can't get reliability with the shells.

The local Harman dealer says that they have a few customers that burn shells in their P series.

Just a stir Gizmo is likely not the total answer. There has to be a way to get the stuff out of the pot.

I will happily ship some of the shells in a flat rate box if someone wants to pay the freight through USPS

A full large flat rate box full would possibly give a good test.

The stuff burns really nice for about an hour or so, its afer that point that the clinker starts to form and clog things up some.

What sort of issues have the Harmans had.

I dont want to jump from the pan to the fire so to speak.

After looking at the fire pot on the Harman I believe that by redesigning the end cap on the front of the pot and installing the stir unit in the thing this may work well with the shells.

With a little machine shop in the basement I can rip the stove apart and make a few new parts if need be.

My take on all this is that the designers build their stoves to run on the most popular fuels.

Outlaws like me, we have to do a little backyard engineering to make stuff work.


Snowy




Snowy

 

[jtakeman]

The biggest concern I have is that to just swap stoves is not gonna be worth the effort and $$$$$$$$$$ if I can't get reliability with the shells.

The local Harman dealer says that they have a few customers that burn shells in their P series.

Just a stir Gizmo is likely not the total answer. There has to be a way to get the stuff out of the pot.

I will happily ship some of the shells in a flat rate box if someone wants to pay the freight through USPS

A full large flat rate box full would possibly give a good test.



Snowy

Not all these stir gizmo's are created equal! The Enviro is designed to push the ash from the middle of the pot out toward the edges. It is the forced over the side. This includes clinkers and what ever else builds up.

One question I have with the standard P series is, Will the standard igniter actually ignite the shells for you? Or do you need to mod that too?

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Just got off the phone with the local Harman dealer, she tells me that she has 5 customers that are running the XXV with shells and have for quite a while with zero issues.

Anything that will get the crap out of the pot is a good thing.

I am actively watching Craigs list now and will for the summer.

Summer is a great time to buy a pellet stove, especially when its 90F +++ outside.
Somehow folks don't get really excited about building a fire in the summer

Just looked over craigs and there are afew stoves there but the prices are still a tad high for my likeing.

Was a Whitfield Prodigy for $500. I paid $200 for ours with a floor pad too.

The Advantage was $200 also.

I will sit in waiting and a good one will come along CHEAP

Snowy

 

[Snowy Rivers]

J-T

Not sure but I dont think it will be an issue. the shells light pretty easy. I just use a handful of pellets because the smell is nicer in the house while lighting if it poofs a little into the room.

The shells smell nice when lit good but the smoke when just starting smells like someone burnt something nasty in the kitchen.

The smell of a little wood smoke, I find nice, A little bit mind ya.

Not sure how the ignitor is placed in the Harman but it should do fine.

Snowy

 

[DexterDay]

J-T

Not sure but I dont think it will be an issue. the shells light pretty easy. I just use a handful of pellets because the smell is nicer in the house while lighting if it poofs a little into the room.

The shells smell nice when lit good but the smoke when just starting smells like someone burnt something nasty in the kitchen.

The smell of a little wood smoke, I find nice, A little bit mind ya.

Not sure how the ignitor is placed in the Harman but it should do fine.

Snowy

If your sure a regular P-Series can burn 100% shells. Then go for it. I know they can do a 50/50 mix pellets/corn.. But dont know about there ratio's on other fuels. Thats why I would love to try some in my Quadrafire. I can burn 100% of many fuels (Once started on Pellets) It has no Agitator, but the Violent vortex of air coming through the pot should eject any and all ash that those shells can create..

The PC-45 was gonna cost you a little more. If you could find one for sale locally. Although lighting them may not be a problem, if there "light" like you say. Seems like your set on the Harmans (P-Series) pretty good..Wish you the best of luck, finding a good one in your area. Hope it gets the job done for ya. There is a P-38 here locally that someone wants to "Trade" for on Craiglist. They are out there, someone may be able to get this one for a good deal.. http://youngstown.craigslist.org/bar/2379850534.html

 

[Snowy Rivers]

DEX
Unless the Quads have a different feed system than they did when the 1000 was made, they will not feed the shells.

The 1000 has a very large SPRING like feed screw thats hollow in the center and the shells fall down and dont feed well enough to keep the fire going good.

I tried several times to run shells in the 1000 but no joy.
Loads of smoke as the fire would burn nearly out then some shells would fall in and smolder, then catch and on it went.

Absolutely no hard decsiions have been made yet.

I dont have to do the stove swap as my old Quad is working perfectly. I just dont like having to keep two different fuels is all.

Working on picking up a medium sized dumpster to place in my Out building to store a much larger amount of shells and not have to barrel everything up in the basement.

When I go get shells with the big truck, its hard to judge exactly what I will be able to store, so many times the truck gets loaded with far more than I can keep.

The Box on the dump truck can Hold 20 Yards (level full) so it would be nice to be able to store at least everything my barrels can hold plus maybe 4-6 yards more.

As summer gets here, pellets stoves will be far cheaper on craigs list.

I got real lucky when I bought the two Whits as the folks that had them wanted them gone and $$$$ was not a really big deal.

The thing right now for me, is to learn as much as I can about the different models out on the market.

As far as reliability goes, the Old Quad has been stellar. The only issues were the early igniter and the ceramic firepots.

These two items were replaced under warranty early on.


The igniter has failed once since then but I consider it to be a "Consumable item"

Never had any other issues.


So, I guess what my main concern is, that I dont swap stoves to gain the multifuel ability, but inherit a batch of reliability issues with a different brand.

The Old Whits are simple as dirt and can be fixed easily with off the shelf technology.

As long as the heat exchangers don't develope a crack and leak smoke into the room these old girls should last a long time.

The fancy electronics is my main worry with any of the newer stoves.

The Quad, although computer controlled is pretty simple, its either ON or OFF

The Quad 1000 did not have any adjustments as to heat settings.
When the stat calls for heat its lites, runs, heats, and shuts off again when the room is warm.

Very noisy though, not a stove I would really want in the same room with the TV
Ours is on the far side of the house in a corner, so the noise is not noticed.

Reliability is the main issue with whatever stove I do decide to replace the Quad with.

The Quad can heat this entire house (2400 ft) except when it get really cold outside (below 20F)

This past winter we had a week of low teens F and the two Whits simmering along on low did fine at keeping the house cozy.

Bottom line here, if I can find a Harman or???? whatever at a right price, I will park the thing in the shop and do some serious testing before I swap it for the Quad..

If the tests dont go favorably. I will simply hang onto it until winter, then move it for a profit.


All the info is appreciated very much

Snowy