A new stove MAYBE

[Snowy Rivers]

OK troops, here it is.

I have been thinking about changing out our Quadrafire 1000 and installing a different stove in its place.

The Quad 1000 has been a great stove for us since it was new in 1994. The last full season and part of the previous season it has sat idle due to my installing the two Whitfields.

The Quad will not burn nut shells at all so I must buy and store Pellets as well as the shells.

I am thinking about looking at a newer stove like the Harmon (Bottom feeder) that can burn pellets and or the shells interchangeably.

Spoke with a local stove shop a while back (in there to get a pipe adapter) and asked the owner about running shells in the Harman, she just smiled and replied "A few of my customers do that"

The Old Quad has been trouble free for all these years. **The ceramic firepots went south fairly quick and were covered under warranty.**

I would like to have the option of an Auto light stove that can run on either fuel material.


The past week the weather has been warm enough that a full time fire is not needed and so I loaded the Quad and let it take over the duties for a few days.

How many companies make stoves that are bottom feeders like the Harman

Any input here would be great.

Thanks

Snowy

 

[Delta-T]

I'm pretty sure Harman is the only one with that exact type of bottom feed system, I assume you'd be looking at something like the PC45, though I've seen similar set-ups for industrial applications. You might also wanna take a look at the Enviro multi-fuel stoves (m55,omega) they have an agitator, like in the PC45, that helps deal with the ash and clinkers. Good stuff.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Thanks for the info.

Not sure yet.
I really would like to se one of these stoves run on the shells so I can elaluate the whole thing before heading off on another damned fool crusade.

This will not be a cheap jump so I dont want to make a mistake.

The Quad has been very reliable, just will not run the shells. The auger feed will not propel the shells up the tube as the Quad uses a hollow spring instead of a full flight auger.

Thanks again.

Snowy

 

[Delta-T]

I've seen the PC45 burn just about everything we could find to throw into it. Its got a great set of controls for tweaking the feed rate. Agreed, not a cheap move, hopefully you can find a used one.
Either have seen, or know directly people who have burned- peanut shells, acorns (crushed),corn,pellets (from industrial grade to premium),pistachio shells, random other shells from nuts (walnuts,almond,brazil). I dont even think those things are the best feature of the stove...all the P series stove are a snap to clean, almost too easy IMO. Good Luck.

 

[DexterDay]

The Omega has been dis-continued, unfortunately. The Maxx-M is the replacement, I believe. I too have been looking into a good "Multi-Fueler". I found a Dealer in Tennessee that has 3 (Omega's) in stock, but he wont come off the $3,600 price tag. The PC-45 is a Good looking stove with the agitator. If I were to really look into one, I'd be taking a look at the Englander 10-CPM. Good product support, and Snowy, I know you do all your own maintenance anyways. Ask imacman about his. Those are my top 3 multi-fuelers.
Enviro - - Omega (if you can get one)
Englander- - 10-CPM (can get a cheap factory re-built model/full warranty)
Harman - - PC-45 (some have had problems) (some have not)

 

[jtakeman]

Snowy,

If you want to ship my a few pounds of shells? I can do a test burn in my Omega for you. But I am betting "a non issue" for it. Its burned and fed a number of fuels so far(I'll list them if you need it-too lazy to type today).

The Enviro M55(steel and cast) should be able to do the nut thing just as good as the Omega/Maxx M and is a little smaller unit. Same exact engine and burner in a smaller shell.

Let me know?

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Thanks guys

I could easily stuff a large flat rate box full of shells full and mail them off.

Sounds though that the Harman should handle the job nicely.

Snowy

 

[smwilliamson]

I vote for M55. Travis Lopi has a new bottom feed as well as Drolet. Are the Fahrenheit stoves bottom feed? How about a bixby or cumberland?

 

[Fsappo]

Snow, same offer here. If you shipped some shells, I could test them in the Europa, Euromax and the Magnum Countryside.

Europa has almost infinite ash extraction and combustion air settings. I've burned just about everything the size of a pellet in mine (including rice coal, just couldnt get the ash out fast enough) No electronic ignition.

Euromax is a 130lb hopper bottom feed beast which looks to me like they stole a lot of the design from Harman. Have only burned premium pellets so far. Its got all the electronic stuff.

Countryside is about the simplest of the bunch. Just dumps pellets in a pot, blows air thru em and stirs em with a stainless spoked stirrer. No electronic ignition.

Let me know if your interested. I can post the results here. Maybe even shoot a video.

 

[jtakeman]

Thanks guys

I could easily stuff a large flat rate box full of shells full and mail them off.

Sounds though that the Harman should handle the job nicely.

Snowy

For my own curiosity, I would certainly love to try the shells. I'll PM my addy if your serious?

Because there is an agitator in the pot, I doubt you would need to fab a spreader like the whit's. As the auger feeds the fuel, most hits the agitator shaft and gets spread around the pot.

One note on the igniter if your planning shells in the Harman, You would probably need to start it on pellets. Not so with the multifuel stoves. Their pressure igniters act just like the propane torch you are using in the whit's to light them.

Please, at least go look at an M55 before you totally decide. Might even save you a dime or too! I have nothing against the Harman's, I just think the Multifuelers are a bit more versital overall. And about the same dime as the P43.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[DexterDay]

Thanks guys

I could easily stuff a large flat rate box full of shells full and mail them off.

Sounds though that the Harman should handle the job nicely.

Snowy

For my own curiosity, I would certainly love to try the shells. I'll PM my addy if your serious?

Because there is an agitator in the pot, I doubt you would need to fab a spreader like the whit's. As the auger feeds the fuel, most hits the agitator shaft and gets spread around the pot.

One note on the igniter if your planning shells in the Harman, You would probably need to start it on pellets. Not so with the multifuel stoves. Their pressure igniters act just like the propane torch you are using in the whit's to light them.

Please, at least go look at an M55 before you totally decide. Might even save you a dime or too! I have nothing against the Harman's, I just think the Multi are a bit more versital overall. And about the same dime as the P43.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I would definitely take a look at a "True Multi-Fueler" before buying a Harman. Nothing against them, great stoves. But for the same money,I would look into other avenues that have an agitator.
Magnum Countryside as Franks said, is a good stove, has an agitator, no frills, no ignitor. My money would be with Enviro 1st (M55 cast, M55 steel, Maxx-M, Omega (find one!), then the Englander 10-CPM, Great stove for the cost and it looks good too.

I vote for M55. Travis Lopi has a new bottom feed as well as Drolet. Are the Fahrenheit stoves bottom feed? How about a bixby or cumberland?

Fahrenheit Endurance is the only stove (furnace) they currently make. No it is not a bottom feed, Its a top feed (Drop) But it does have a cleaning mechanism. Much like a "Bull-Dozer". Plate slides out over the current fire (versa-grate/St.Criox), pellets then feed on top of that plate and ignite. Once that is done a pusher plate that has the same V shape as the pot pushes from the rear and 2 arms on the pusher, open the door (end of pot) and push any ash, clinker material out the front and into the ash pan. Pretty nifty system. The actuators are a little loud. But you get over it.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Definately a lot of ideas to digest here.

I am going to be looking over the whole scene before I spring for anything.

My usual M O is to buy used, so I will be watching Craigs List over the next several months to see what pops up.

I really like the old Quad, but the fact that it will only burn pellets makes it necessary to keep a supply of two different fuels, which I dont like at all.

The apartment in the basement has a Quad 1000 also, but my cousin lives down there and he buys a ton of pellets and that pretty well does the trick for the entire winter.

He keeps on of those little oil emersion type portable heaters running and it keeps the chill off unless it gets really cold.

Again, thanks for the input and ideas. I will be looking at the M55 to see if it might meet the need.

Snowy

 

[Delta-T]

Thanks guys

I could easily stuff a large flat rate box full of shells full and mail them off.

Sounds though that the Harman should handle the job nicely.

Snowy

For my own curiosity, I would certainly love to try the shells. I'll PM my addy if your serious?

Because there is an agitator in the pot, I doubt you would need to fab a spreader like the whit's. As the auger feeds the fuel, most hits the agitator shaft and gets spread around the pot.

One note on the igniter if your planning shells in the Harman, You would probably need to start it on pellets. Not so with the multifuel stoves. Their pressure igniters act just like the propane torch you are using in the whit's to light them.

Please, at least go look at an M55 before you totally decide. Might even save you a dime or too! I have nothing against the Harman's, I just think the Multifuelers are a bit more versital overall. And about the same dime as the P43.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Just an FYI-The Harman PC45 IS a true multi-fueler....similar agitator set-up as Enviro...but with underfire auger system, a bit pricey though. Same chassis as P61, with pressure ignition, all that kind of thing. very comparable to the M55 Steel in looks, slightly better controls IMO.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

My concerns with all the top feeders is getting the crap out of the Pot.

The shells leave a nasty crunchy clinker in the pot, and unless there is a way to get it pushed out its going to be an issue.

The small Whitfield requires that I do a quick scrape of the pot about 3 times a day in order to get the crud out of the fire tray.

This is easily accomplished when I am at home.

The Large Whitfield is more forgiving and will run a lot longer without needing the pot cleaned.

I am very interested in the Harmans design, where the burnt materials are shoved out over the front of the fire pot and into the ash bin.

If I am going to spend the time and $$$$$ to change stoves, I want to gain something from the process.

I want to be able to use my prefered fuel (Shells) and not have to mess with the stove as I do with the Whits.


Most of the time I am quite content to fiddle with "tending" the fires, but there are times when we leave for a day or two that I don't want to have to worry about a stove that needs fiddling with.

The house has full electric forced air heating and I will not use this thing.

Way too expensive to run.

This is going to be an interesting journey for sure.

Keep the ideas coming.


Thanks

Snowy

 

[Fsappo]

Which is why you should ship me some fuel to try in three of our stoves that should burn it. I'll give you the reports and then you can search for used models closer to you. If your really interested, I may even be able to arrange for pickup using our UPS account.

 

[DexterDay]

The PC-45 has a slightly different pot design than the other P series and the agitator in the 45 is a Front to Back agitator. But any true "Multi-Fuel" will work for days on end. I don't remember the exact count of bags but imacman burned around 60 bags in his 10-CPM without doing anything. Any stove with an agitator will break up and throw out the clinkers. No matter if its bottom feed or top feed. The agitator is the Key Element to all the stoves mentioned in this Forum. With regards to the Eupora. You would have to see one. I can't describe it. Great stove though.
Again. Nothing wrong with the Harman. But if you go to the iburncorn Forum or do general searches in here you will find A- not many people with them. B- those that do have some problems.

I know all stoves have there problems, but maybe I have just read more about the PC-45 than most. Most problems are prob user related. But I would still look at all the options. Especially when buying used. Good luck Snowy. I'm sure whatever you decide will be great. Do your homework on all the agitator "Multi-Fueler's". If any of the stoves listed in this thread came up on Craiglist for the right price. I would be all over it. Even the Harman, again great stove. I have just read more bad than good. But rarely do people list the good things about stoves. A lot of people only list there Problems. Sorry so long winded.

 

[jtakeman]

Thanks guys

I could easily stuff a large flat rate box full of shells full and mail them off.

Sounds though that the Harman should handle the job nicely.

Snowy

For my own curiosity, I would certainly love to try the shells. I'll PM my addy if your serious?

Because there is an agitator in the pot, I doubt you would need to fab a spreader like the whit's. As the auger feeds the fuel, most hits the agitator shaft and gets spread around the pot.

One note on the igniter if your planning shells in the Harman, You would probably need to start it on pellets. Not so with the multi stoves. Their pressure igniters act just like the propane torch you are using in the whit's to light them.

Please, at least go look at an M55 before you totally decide. Might even save you a dime or too! I have nothing against the Harman's, I just think the Multi are a bit more versital overall. And about the same dime as the P43.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Just an FYI-The Harman PC45 IS a true multi-fueler....similar agitator set-up as Enviro...but with underfire auger system, a bit pricey though. Same chassis as P61, with pressure ignition, all that kind of thing. very comparable to the M55 Steel in looks, slightly better controls IMO.

Delta,

I was kind of classifying all the multi-fuelers in the same group. Only thing I don't like about the PC45 is having to change pots from pellets to corn. Plus they were a bit higher in price.

Franks, If they put an igniter on the Europa, I'm sure you get more lookers on it! but curious to see the shell results in it too!

Snowy,

"Most" of the multifuelers are self cleaners. This would eliminate you tending to the pot. Please send me some shells and I'll burn and snap pictures for you of a clean pot and ash/clinkers over the side. I'll have to open the windows to burn these days.

Not all multifuelers are greated equal. If you remember imacman had flame outs/burnpot clogging with his stove and the Hamer Hot Ones pellets. I have never had that with my self cleaning burnpot. It has no issue breaking up clinkers and feeding them over the side of the burnpot. I have burned some pretty crappy fuels(switchgrass-wood mix) and only needed a weekly carbon scrape. The PC45 may do the same? but I don't know for sure, Delta, We will need you input here!

Some multifuelers have to dump the burnpot and relight the fuel. Tough on the igniter!

Only draw back I see for you is finding a used stove. Once peep's get a hold of them. They tend to keep them. But you never know?

 

[Delta-T]

also, Put about 6 tons through an Omega this year without cleaning anything except empty ash pan and wipe down glass, did pull the burnpot out 2 times to scrape it clean. What an animal that thing is.
Double thumbs up to Enviro on that one.

 

[Fsappo]

I dont think they'll put electronic ignition on the Europa. It needs a 2-3" even ash bed to keep the gasification process moving. It also requires very hot combustion air. Claude doesnt want folks flipping it on and off all year. Kind of like what Delta said. Shut it down once every week to 10 days to empty the ashes and wipe the glass. It takes a full 20 minutes after startup to get those air holes makin the blue jets of doom. Kinda like coal. Light in November, turn it off in April.

 

[Delta-T]

I dont think they'll put electronic ignition on the Europa. It needs a 2-3" even ash bed to keep the gasification process moving. It also requires very hot combustion air. Claude doesnt want folks flipping it on and off all year. Kind of like what Delta said. Shut it down once every week to 10 days to empty the ashes and wipe the glass. It takes a full 20 minutes after startup to get those air holes makin the blue jets of doom. Kinda like coal. Light in November, turn it off in April.

We put out a few Europas in years past...have never had a service call on one..not 1. Could mean the stoves are all running purrrfect, or that the owners were abducted by aliens.

 

[jtakeman]

I dont think they'll put electronic ignition on the Europa. It needs a 2-3" even ash bed to keep the gasification process moving. It also requires very hot combustion air. Claude doesnt want folks flipping it on and off all year. Kind of like what Delta said. Shut it down once every week to 10 days to empty the ashes and wipe the glass. It takes a full 20 minutes after startup to get those air holes makin the blue jets of doom. Kinda like coal. Light in November, turn it off in April.

That works for some, But most want a spring fall thermostat to control the stove. I still think you would sell more if it had an igniter. But what do I know. Sure would like to see the burn results from it on nut shells. I would also like to see the results of dexter days "Fahrenheit Endurance". And hossthehermits "Revolution".

We may be looking into a larger home with some extra land. If this happens I want a true furnace to heat the new shack! Now if there was a nut shell source local? I would be good to go!

Snowy"

There is another option if you house has hotwater heat. There is a biomass bioler that can burn many many fuels. Check it out. Click the BB-100

http://www.bioburner.com/

 

[DexterDay]

I dont think they'll put electronic ignition on the Europa. It needs a 2-3" even ash bed to keep the gasification process moving. It also requires very hot combustion air. Claude doesnt want folks flipping it on and off all year. Kind of like what Delta said. Shut it down once every week to 10 days to empty the ashes and wipe the glass. It takes a full 20 minutes after startup to get those air holes makin the blue jets of doom. Kinda like coal. Light in November, turn it off in April.

That works for some, But most want a spring fall thermostat to control the stove. I still think you would sell more if it had an igniter. But what do I know. Sure would like to see the burn results from it on nut shells. I would also like to see the results of dexter days "Fahrenheit Endurance". And hossthehermits "Revolution".

We may be looking into a larger home with some extra land. If this happens I want a true furnace to heat the new shack! Now if there was a nut shell source local? I would be good to go!

Snowy"

There is another option if you house has hotwater heat. There is a biomass bioler that can burn many many fuels. Check it out. Click the BB-100

http://www.bioburner.com/

I looked at an old Whitefield down the road from my Fathers house awhile back. Guy wanted $500 for it. Came with all flue, hearth, and a ton of remaining Cherry Pits that he burned. In hindsight, I should have bought the stove. Had an agitator in it. But this was before I had found this Forum. My knowledge of manual light stoves and stoves with agitator's was at a minimum. (Now I own a 15 yr old manual light) He never told me where he got the cherry pits. I asked several times. All he said was "Buy the stove son, and I'll tell ya". Well I ran away from the stove. Once I found this Forum I looked him back up and he sold. Day late and a dollar short. Oh well.

I really would love a cheaper alternative to heating. If I could find cherry pits or nut shells. I wouldn't be afraid to try them in my Quad. A 50/50 first, then fire it up and try 100% shells/pits. I've ran 100% corn in it. It burned, but the pot had to emptied at least every 48 hrs. Starts to build up quick. Cant start on corn alone, needs pellets, but it will burn straight corn. Wont do it as well as a agitator stove will, for sure. But I would think the lighter shells/pits would do well in it. The Endurance would chew them up without a doubt. It can be as messy as all get out, once that "Bull-Dozer" pushes it way through the Ash/Clinker, its as good as new.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I really love the Old Whit manual lites.

No nothing much to worry about.

I just want one unit that will/can take care of itself and run on the shells.

The way I do business now would not work for many folks.

I have to nuture the Whits like an old HEN to keep things working right.

The Little whit will clog the fire pot within about 10 hours if its not given a swish or two.

Its a morning before work, a late afternoon and a before bedtime thing ya know.

Snowy

 

[smwilliamson]

Definately a lot of ideas to digest here.

I am going to be looking over the whole scene before I spring for anything.

My usual M O is to buy used, so I will be watching Craigs List over the next several months to see what pops up.

I really like the old Quad, but the fact that it will only burn pellets makes it necessary to keep a supply of two different fuels, which I dont like at all.

The apartment in the basement has a Quad 1000 also, but my cousin lives down there and he buys a ton of pellets and that pretty well does the trick for the entire winter.

He keeps on of those little oil emersion type portable heaters running and it keeps the chill off unless it gets really cold.

Again, thanks for the input and ideas. I will be looking at the M55 to see if it might meet the need.

Snowy

Check out the Englander 10-CMP....forgot to include that one. Very good stove. Maybe the best stove they have ever put out....very good on the budget for about 1700 new online. Find the timber ridge equivalent.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Are these "Bottom feeders"

I have had a few different stoves over the years and the Whitfields have been the best (SO FAR) at handling the shells.

The old Earth stove WP-50 was ok but the "Natural fire" burn tray would clog up with clinker and need a quicky clean at least twice a day.

I really like the idea that Harman has of the fuel feed shoving the burnt materials out the front of the pot, thus keeping the fire pot clear of clinker.

I have found that the airflow up through the fire pot is just not enough to keep the clinkers formed with the burning shells cleared out.

Pellets, even poor quality ones are a whole different game than the nut shells.

The shells have all sorts of stuff in them.

There are a percentage of nut meats that have a lot of oils plus there is a percentage of dirt that is bound to get caught in the mix.

Even though the nuts are washed prior to drying there is always some dirt that gets through.


The combination of all this makes for a clinker prone fire.


Maybe someone will loan me a PC45 for a month, to test :bug:

Snowy