About the flames out the chimney thing...

[maple1]

... I think there was a very important point in that thread that was touched on a couple few times, but not emphasized enough for importance in the final postings before closure.

(And this applies way broader than to just that one thread - that one just happened to be the one that prompted this).

Some put way too much stock in what magnetic thermometers say, and doing that can get very dangerous. It is a LOT hotter inside the pipe, than what that guage says - ESPECIALLY if the pipe is double wall. (And likely on the outside too, with air movement between the pipe & guage & the round pipe surface). As I mentioned in there, when I burn my probe dial guage reads 200c (400f), while the magnetic right beside it says 100c (210f). And that is on single wall. I think back once in a while to when I had my old boiler, with the exact same guage on the pipe, and the odd times I saw it into the red zone - and shudder a bit inside. Even if you don't get a bit of intermittent creosote accumulation that that high temp would light off, if it's combined with an installation that is just a little bit shoddy or clearances that are just a little bit tight, the results could truly be disasterous. I see lots of back & forth on the forum about pipe temps & what they should be etc., with no mention of how they're measured. Someones 500f could be someone elses 800f+.

So burn safe, and try to remember that - I would really like to see more mention of that aspect from time to time, it could save someone a world of hurt.

 

[pen]

400F with a probe on single wall is a very low temp for single wall pipe if that is the active part of the burn. At those temps, I would find it hard to believe that the exhaust gasses could stay above 250 degrees all the way to the sky. If they don't do that, creosote is deposited.

In general, what concerns me most about sharing temps is if folks are using a rutland thermometer. I have owned 3 and the best made it a bit more than a year before reading way off.

Been using condars for years now and find them to be very consistent.

In all, there are many factors to be looked at in determining if a wood stove is being run properly, not just the thermometer.

pen

 

[begreen]

Is a probe thermometer accurate when used on single-wall? It's specifically designed and calibrated for double-wall.

 

[webby3650]

I think people put WAY too much emphasis on pipe temperature! Keep your chimney clean and monitor the stove top temps. All is well.

 

[Poindexter]

Couple really good points here, and I do agree.

I "know" running a magnetic stickon thermometer on DWSP is inaccurate.

While it isn't a high priority, to drill my DWSP one foot up from the stove collar requires me to find a thermometer in a color scheme the wife approves, and I need a compelling reason to install a probe type thermometer at that location.

I don't really "need" a probe there. I think webby3650 is right that a clean chimney and monitored stove top temps is all that is really "needed" - unless you got a kid who is in the habit of learning things the hard way.

If you got all adults in the house who can recognize the sound of a hot flue without needing to see a needle on a dial I agree.

 

[webby3650]

Both of my kids have been raised with multiple stoves in the house. We've never had a burn, ever.

 

[bobdog2o02]

Ive been thinking of this topic too and would like to know a real temp for inside my single wall stovepipe. Can this be used on single wall?

http://www.condar.com/Probe-Instructions-EN.html

 

[Jags]

Ive been thinking of this topic too and would like to know a real temp for inside my single wall stovepipe. Can this be used on single wall?

http://www.condar.com/Probe-Instructions-EN.html

Intended and calibrated for double wall. No way to vouch for the accuracy on single wall due to excessive heat at the dial that it was never intended for.

 

[bobdog2o02]

Intended and calibrated for double wall. No way to vouch for the accuracy on single wall due to excessive heat at the dial that it was never intended for.

Exactly what i was looking for thanks.

 

[maple1]

Is a probe thermometer accurate when used on single-wall? It's specifically designed and calibrated for double-wall.

Can't find any links to the guage I have. Has a little symbol on the front with the word 'Therm' below it, and 'Made in Sweden' right below that. Celcius, with a white face. Came with my boiler. Don't think it's a double wall only guage though.

So lots of apples to oranges stuff in this flue pipe temps thing. I could see a new operator who's never burned wood before and did it DIY getting into trouble grabbing a temperature number off the web & running with it - guess that was my main concern.

( I also don't get any creosote in my 30' chimney at the temps I mentioned above).

 

[bobdog2o02]

Can't find any links to the guage I have. Has a little symbol on the front with the word 'Therm' below it, and 'Made in Sweden' right below that. Celcius, with a white face. Came with my boiler. Don't think it's a double wall only guage though.

So lots of apples to oranges stuff in this flue pipe temps thing. I could see a new operator who's never burned wood before and did it DIY getting into trouble grabbing a temperature number off the web & running with it - guess that was my main concern.

( I also don't get any creosote in my 30' chimney at the temps I mentioned above).

This whole issue is why i think i was overfiring my US 2500, thing went to hell quick. Never was glowing but was not long lived.

 

[bholler]

I always go by pipe temp i wouldn't know what to do with out a pipe thermometer. It is all what you are used to stove top temps can work fine if that is what you prefer but a magnetic thermometer on double wall is pointless it will give you no useful info.

 

[webby3650]

Modern stove manufacturers recommend certain stove top temperatures, not much mention of flue temps, if any.
In my opinion, taking stove pipe temps is the old way of doing it. New stoves can have flue temps all over the place and still be running safely and efficiently. It doesn't necessarily mean you are "overfiring" or "making creosote" like it used to.

 

[Jags]

I like both sets of data. And that is what it is - data. I make adjustments based off of both.

 

[bholler]

It doesn't necessarily mean you are "overfiring" or "making creosote" like it used to.

I know that but many don't give any temps at all either. And over firing is over firing and if you are to cool to early i dont care what stove you have you will be making creosote. Like i said stove top temps work fine And in cat stoves cat temp is obviously the most important temp but i dont have a cat stove and pipe temp works well for me

 

[pen]

Is a probe thermometer accurate when used on single-wall? It's specifically designed and calibrated for double-wall.

I'm still running the probe on my stove's single wall even though we verified the readings are bunk as far as true temperature on single wall pipe a few years ago. That said, I keep a magnetic on the pipe as well and the probe reads consistently with the magnetic thermometer. For example, if the probe says X the magnetic will always say Y, or vice versa. What's also been interesting, is that the magnetic takes it's readings just as quickly as the probe. I figured the probe would pick up on quick temp changes faster, but no, at least not versus the condar chimgard.

Modern stove manufacturers recommend certain stove top temperatures, not much mention of flue temps, if any.
In my opinion, taking stove pipe temps is the old way of doing it. New stoves can have flue temps all over the place and still be running safely and efficiently. It doesn't necessarily mean you are "overfiring" or "making creosote" like it used to.

Only certain brands give specific temps. Many just say if it's glowing red, it's too hot.

I like running a pipe and a stove top thermometer because I've seen many fires take off quickly, especially those on a hot coal bed, where the temperature in the pipe takes off like crazy well before the stove is showing how hot things really are, since the stove's metal is so much thicker.
This situation is a recipe for a chimney fire if things are not clean.

pen

 

[webby3650]

I know that but many don't give any temps at all either. And over firing is over firing and if you are to cool to early i dont care what stove you have you will be making creosote. Like i said stove top temps work fine And in cat stoves cat temp is obviously the most important temp but i dont have a cat stove and pipe temp works well for me

It is what your used to, I know. Both work fine if you know the stove, but I deal with new stove owners and others that never understood how to use it in the first place. Most of them would freak if they saw 900 degrees on a probe therm!

 

[bholler]

but I deal with new stove owners and others that never understood how to use it in the first place. Most of them would freak if they saw 900 degrees on a probe therm!

We do to and it really depends on the stove if the manual gives a stove top temp we tell them to go by that obviously but if there is no temps given we go with the pipe temp as a default. We dont get to many cat stoves here but those we obviously gave them go by cat temps.

 

[maple1]

Just to add, I was also talking flue temps & guages across all wood burning appliances - stoves, furnaces, & boilers, 'clean' & 'dirty' burners. This happened to be the forum I posted in since that's where the thread was that got me to post about it. Which likely adds more apples to oranges stuff & how pulling one flue temp number out of what someone says could be not good somewhere & somehow else.